Which foot do you use??

[(RIP) pastyman]

it does help you plan ahead and hones your ability to anticipate the actions of others. Vanishing point is important but just feels like its in slow motion, its like ooow a corner........................its opening......................arr theres the apex..............................................now add some gas.......................oh yeh nice line and i didn't grind off the primary cover. makes a change from my old days of warp factor three, knee down,head down "i'm a racing god" style. Arrrr your all thinking "he's getting old" yep I guess i am, but i'm HAPPY

Naaaaa .. It makes so much bloody noise that all the local population including waggons and taxi drivers have dived for the nearest junction or driveway, horses have bolted and badgers and bunnies lie quivering in their burrows and sets( Teaching their young which foot to step out first with)

 

[Marjorie Proops]

Exactly what is 'advanced' about sticking to a rigid dogma regardless of the prevailing conditions?

As well as the physical surroundings, those 'prevailing conditions' could include, for example, a medical condition making one leg significantly stronger than the other.

That's not advanced thinking, it's juvenile rigid dogma imo.

 

[MikeP]

Exactly what is 'advanced' about sticking to a rigid dogma regardless of the prevailing conditions?

As well as the physical surroundings, those 'prevailing conditions' could include, for example, a medical condition making one leg significantly stronger than the other.

That's not advanced thinking, it's juvenile rigid dogma imo.

Precisely!

That's why it's not mentioned in Roadcraft (which is all about riding within and according to the prevailing conditions).

It's also the reason why it is no longer taught; it is dogmatic and what's worse as Micky has pointed out, it can be less safe, if not downright unsafe!

 

[sycomoto]

i'm still on the fence with this one

i neither agree or disagree, i ride to the conditions and enviroment. I don't think either of you are wrong as i've riden with Flip and you've done some very advanced rider training and passed so on that basis you must be good. all i'm saying is flip like many others like to do the shuffle, it maybe habit but does that make it wrong. you said if three things can be made into two etc does that mean the mirror signal manover can be reduced to signal move and forget the mirror and lifesaver, is having a glance over your shoulder putting you at risk cos your not looking ahead, of course not its a safety thing as is covering your break. Bikes have changed over the last 20 years and its now possible to sit for a few minutes with the clutch in and the bike in gear but you still get trained to stop ,put the bike in nuetral etc your still taught to nearly pull up in what ever gear then go down the box rather than stomp it through the box as your slowing but which ever way its neither right or wrong. the thing both you and flip will agree on is the need for observation, forward planning and riding within your limits while being smooth and on that basis your both right and therfore of an advanced level.

 

[(RIP) ugg]

rode home tonite, back brake dodgy.
so only used front brake and right foot down, i had to alter my riding style because of the control you need to stop using the front brake with ye right leg ready to hold up the bike.
was alien at 1st then found out my riding, especialy stopping was alot smoother.
just weird leaning the bike to the right not left to pull up at lights.

its a good skill to practice even if yer a shuffler like mesen. especialy ,if ye fekin back brake is playin silly buggers.

will probably use this method now , just got to quardinate gear change n clutch . still found mesen holding clutch in.

been riding over 20 years n it feels like ive just learnt again

thats my peneth worth

 

[MikeP]

A couple of points.

First I have not said the shuffle is wrong. I have said that it is out of date and unnecessary.

If I was asked to examine/access a rider who uses it AND in that ride it did not impede progress, it would not be an issue (for that ride but I would still advise against the use of it).

I'm sorry if Flip or anyone else takes it a personal criticism that what they have been doing for years is now considered defunct. Things move on. I was taught the old System and had to change to the IPSGA method. It achieves the same ends but merges some of the 'features' that were separate in the old System.

Anyone who makes a shoulder check in circumstances that endanger themselves is obviously not doing things right! I'd go further and say that well over half the shoulder checks I see people make are unnecessary, sometimes counter-productive. It seems to be something that has become a fetish in some riders but that's another issue.

 

[Flipfly]

I have said if it suits you use it, if it doesn't don't!!!!

For every arguement against it there is an arguement for it. If you want to use your right leg then go ahead it has no detremental effect on me. I will use the shuffle because I so far have yet to hear a convincing arguement that can't be turned around in a different situation.

I have asked alot of riders (one today was a class one) who still uses the shuffle and no longer teaches because he was sick of the teaching changing all the time.

When all is said and done, I'd rather see shufflers who can ride than non shufflers who can't ride (works in the reverse also!!!).

It is only classed as dated and unneccessary by your own way of thinking. I personally don't agree and I can't ever remember being undertaken by a car at a set of lights, a roundabout or any other on road situation (I was undertaken by David knight and Adie smith at an enduro many times but this was due to lack of talent not the hendon shuffle ).

If I'm in second place to you right footers it suits me fine, I'll let you take on the red light jumpers and scrape you off the floor should you be too keen to get away in a hurry. Might work in police escort work with lights and sirens, but traffic light drag races are not my thing.

 

[Hookster]

That would be Emery shuffle then.

Oh bugger! And I thought Alzheimer's was for others not me. What year i it?

So what dick Henderson do and why do I know his name? Did he do the silly one arm and one leg out in the reflection? In the opening credits?

Hooky

 

[laikin' art]

Oh bugger! And I thought Alzheimer's was for others not me. What year i it?

So what dick Henderson do and why do I know his name? Did he do the silly one arm and one leg out in the reflection? In the opening credits?

Hooky

Here's Harry - Harry Worth

Dickie Henderson had his own show & used to compere Sunday Night at the London Palladium. He was also straight man to Bob Monkhouse.

I can picture them both now. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

 

[Micky]

Gosh I'm tired

It's up to you Flip if you want to live in the past... that's just fine and dandy by me. You probably have the most posts on this subject in this thread, defending quickly and rising to the bait, in the defence of your short sighted beliefs. Much the same as the trainers did in the 'good old' days.

I don't really think you've taken a second look at the possibilities of LATHS (Life After The Hendon Shuffle) you should maybe perhaps just try it some time

Never ever say that you are as good as, or might be as good as, someone else when you don't know them and have never ridden with them... that is a serious and possibly fatal mistake to make. It's the wrong attitude for riding a motorcycle.

As someone on UKGSer says, quoting Einstein... the mind is like a parachute, it works best when open. This is my last post on the subject... cos I've got some packin to do... off to the Dragon Rally this weekend... on mi motorbike camping in winter

MikeP You're one of several people on here that when you say something it's darned well worth listening to, and if people don't listen then it's their loss

N'nite all



www.adventure.gs

 

[steveuk]

nice one micky

 

[Flipfly]

Gosh I'm tired

It's up to you Flip if you want to live in the past... that's just fine and dandy by me. You probably have the most posts on this subject in this thread, defending quickly and rising to the bait, in the defence of your short sighted beliefs. Much the same as the trainers did in the 'good old' days.

I don't really think you've taken a second look at the possibilities of LATHS (Life After The Hendon Shuffle) you should maybe perhaps just try it some time

Never ever say that you are as good as, or might be as good as, someone else when you don't know them and have never ridden with them... that is a serious and possibly fatal mistake to make. It's the wrong attitude for riding a motorcycle.

As someone on UKGSer says, quoting Einstein... the mind is like a parachute, it works best when open. This is my last post on the subject... cos I've got some packin to do... off to the Dragon Rally this weekend... on mi motorbike camping in winter

MikeP You're one of several people on here that when you say something it's darned well worth listening to, and if people don't listen then it's their loss

N'nite all



www.adventure.gs

You should get to gether with MikeP and share a funny handshake or two

It's worked so far without problem. If it ain't broke and all that.

I dare say I'm not the only one on here that doesn't know how to ride I am no doubt a worse rider than you, you have far more experience and are obviously brilliant, but that doesn't mean you are right in this case, I think it's six of one etc etc. Whichever way, I am still here and intend to be here for a while longer even though I shuffle. It has been demonised as old fashioned and dangerous, frankly that's Bulls*it. It's no more dangerous than your way and I am far more comfortable with the shuffle than any other method. Whenever I have to put my right foot down due to camber etc, I don't feel as in control, simple as.

The only reason for posting so much about the subject is not because I believe the Hendon shuffle is the only way, but it is a way and it works as well as anything you have suggested. I'm not religious about it and if ya wanna do it your way then fine.

As I am obviously not worth listening to, we'll call this one closed hey??

Lets face it, you aren't going to pursuade me even and I am speaking to the deaf (must be your age ).

And before you pat yourself on the back MikeP not everyone agrees

 

[(RIP) ugg]

As long as ye dont fall off the bike, who gives a fek

 

[GrinningGSer]

4076 views so far. I cant believe that so many people cannot make their minds up

 

[Hookster]

Here's Harry - Harry Worth

Dickie Henderson had his own show & used to compere Sunday Night at the London Palladium. He was also straight man to Bob Monkhouse.

I can picture them both now. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

Ahhhh, I see. MAybe I'm not quite old enough Anyway, I get it. It must have been a variety show. Which brings us back to feet. Was he a Hoofer by any chance?

I have to say, I was comfy doing whatever I used to do when I stopped a bike until someone told me about the problems of losing the front end or being hit up the jacksie. I have to say I do whatever suits where I am and the road conditions mostly I hold it one the front brake with one finger and roll the throttle through my thumb and palm.

Before anybody barrettes me for this. a) Mechanical sympathy - so what? It's a machine, I'm more interested in a smooth, quick away. My left hand is quite capable of holding a clutch in for a few minutes thanks.
b) Rear enders? I'm with the feck bracing yourself lot, get out of there if you can. The only guy I know of that was rear ended (so to speak) will probably never walk right again let alone ride propper.

It's been said already but armed with the knowledge of the options, you need to do what suits you best WHat is bound to lead to disaster is being distracted by thinking about it too much.

 

[andyclift]

Very slightly off topic. After 44 years of riding I have never really thought about which foot goes down first but having stopped always put the bike in neutral and hold it on the front brake, normally with BOTH feet on the deck. In the days when I took my test you never had any training so had never really thought about it until my wife did her CBT

She was taught that when she stopped at lights she should keep the bike in gear and hold it on rear brake. This, to me, seemed crazy as my police advanced driver father who taught me to drive cars always insisted that a vehicle was put in nuetral when stopped to avoid the chance of a foot slipping and rolling forward. I also feel that holding the bike on front brake with both feet on the deck is more comfortable and safer than trying to keep one foot pressed on the brake pedal. She was told this was so she was ready to pull away when the light changed but I was taught that was what the amber light was for. A warning to put the vehicle in gear ready for the green.

Then she did a Direct Access with another school (BMW Rider Training) and they also taught left foot down and right holding brake, with the bike in gear, so that was the method she used on her test - and passed.

After a few weeks following her using this system it seemed very awkward, sitting at lights with one hand pulling the clutch in and one foot holding the brakes when she could relax, in nuetral with one hand on the brake and both feet on the deck, plus of course the risk of sitting with the bike in gear.

The crunch came when she stopped on a bad camber, her left foot, struggling to reach the ground. Her foot slipped and she dropped the bike and, of course, her hand came off the clutch with the bike in gear.

After that I encouraged her to stop by putting the right foot down, which was likely to be closer to the ground with any sort of camber. Use the left foot which is still on the peg to put the bike in neutral, then hold it on the front brake (which she is holding when stopping anyway) and then put both feet on the deck. She now finds that a lot more natural and safer.

Referring to earlier posts I can't follow the arguement that you need the back brake for the last moments of stopping, unless you are screaming up to the lights and jamming everything on. With a normal controlled stop the bike should be near as damned it stationary by the time ANY feet are put down (linked brakes on a GS mean that the rear pedal is hardly used anyway).

Also the arguement that left foot down means, if you slip. the bike falls to the "safer" left doesn't seem too logical. So my head can hit the kerb? If a bike is correctly positioned when stopping it is doubtful whether this can be an issue and it means I have to change my riding habits as soon as I cross the channel!!For short arsed riders (like my wife) it is better to have a firmly planted foot than trying to hold the bike on the toes on a bad camber and risk a fall.

 

[laikin' art]

The Hendon Shuffle is tedious, often unnecessary & in some circumstances can be dangerous (moving away sharply at the head of lines of traffic; traffic moving up quickly from behind - although in this situation I would be in gear showing a brake light anyway until the traffic had settled itself down).

Enough reasons for me not to use it.

If anyone else wants to use it then that's up to them, but I try to remove as many potential dangers from my riding plan as I can. The Hendon Shuffle is potentially dangerous so I stopped doing it by rote long ago. I would also speak about this with anyone I was assessing or instructing. If I was examining I would probably mark it down, depending on the reason & circumstance of its use.

Hendon Shuffle, it's just faffing about & looks daft.

 

[dunnie]

Right foot down everytime

Well this is what we are taught............

as a current serving class 1 motorcyclist in the Police we/I always put right foot down. I never used to until I became a Police Motorcyclist. The reason for this is mianly as it looks neater when you are stationary and dont have to alter legs to ingage gear etc. This is even more important when riding as a group of marked job motorcyclists as everyone should look the same and act the same, everything is "uniform". This also looks neat when on VIP escorts etc.
However, if due to the surface,conditions high winds, make it dangerous or an issue to use the right foot then obviously use your left. On my own GS I still used my right foot as it is now engrained in my riding.
Hope this is of some use.
Also.............the which brake thing, I only use the front on the road unless I was practicing emergency stop then I would use both. Rear is also great for scrubbing speed off mid corner on track days............but for the road I just dont use it.

 

[Gray Wizard]

Right foot down

Also was taught to 'cover the rear break' by IAM. I think this makes less little sense for two reasons:

1.) Covering the rear break with your foot when someone hits you from behind will do bugger all - think of the physics - the first thing the pressure comes off is your foot. Much better to hold on to the 'hand' brake which you would grip tighter in case of an impact.

2.) Having to 'shuffle' around makes you take your attention off the road and wiggle your bike around (can be interesting in a fully laden Adv.) and means you are not ready to get into gear when the light changes

My two cents. I got through the IAM but was not tight on the required shuffle. Some examiners care more than others.

 

[Micky]

We're up'n running again Flipfly



www.adventure.gs