Who needs an optimate.....

[Packer]

03 1150GS 52,500 miles. Original battery. No charger of any kind ever except the alternator. Loose terminal at ~2 years old meant that the battery went flat and was hooked up to the car with jump leads to start the bike a couple of times. Sorted the terminals, problem solved and still OK.

 

[Mr K]

I expect you would be regardless of using an optimate.

But I thought Optimates were evil and killed batteries??

 

[John Armstrong]

So are you suggesting your optimate keeps the battery fully charged without charging it

No matter how they put the wording on the box, It's a battery charger. Nothing more nothing less. It's an automatic battery charger.

He's right on this, the last diRe test on chargers tested the amount of amps the chargers pushed in when on float. Quite a large variation even on "bike" ones. The ctek I have seems to have quite a low amps at float, which diRe would have marked down, as it does go from full to charging every so often.

 

[Fanum]

But I thought Optimates were evil and killed batteries??

Whether they do or not is still, I think, under debate.

What they do do however, is hide the condition of a poorly battery by keeping it brimmed up, so that when it does go, it goes suddenly and with NO WARNING

It'll be interesting to see how this one goes, as I think it's about time we got to the truth of it

 

[sproggy]

So are you suggesting your optimate keeps the battery fully charged without charging it

As I understand it, it'll charge the battery 'till it's considered fully charged, let it discharge very slightly, recharge it again, discharge it slightly etc etc. It claims also to be able to 'recover' batteries in poor condition - whether it does or not I don't know.

I had my Bandit on an Optimate for 7 months while an injury meant I couldn't ride. Fired up first time and then it didn't see the Optimate for 5 months of regular use - no sign of any battery issues as a result of the Optimate treatement. I have no doubt that without the Optimate the battery wouldn't have been so happy with that much time idle.

 

[Deleted member CB]

It'll be interesting to see how this one goes, as I think it's about time we got to the truth of it

The thing is there are too many variables in this discussion to draw any conclusions, massively different usage of the bikes, plus three different battery types are being talked about as if they are the same, lead, gel & absorbed mat.

For what it's worth I've never had any vehicle that has needed to be conected to a charger when not being used, though often I've disconnected batterys for long periods of no usage.

I was told a brand new lead/acid battery loses about 2% of it's charge a week, does anyone know if that's correct? As it gets older it gets worse.

 

[Fanum]

The thing is there are too many variables in this discussion to draw any conclusions, massively different usage of the bikes, plus three different battery types are being talked about as if they are the same, lead, gel & absorbed mat.

They all have lead plates in them

I agree though, the charging and cycling properties are very different, but the underlying principles are similar

 

[Steptoe]

The thing is there are too many variables in this discussion to draw any conclusions, .

I wasn't after any conclusion. I was having a break from repairing a 1200 final drive , was bored and thought the site looked a bit quiet.

 

[motobiker]

I've got one... only time I use it now is in the depths of winter and then its only plugged in till it goes 'green' which takes about an hour.

seems to help when the temp is around zero and i get regular abs start up faults. However.. these faults fix themselves very quickly.. so by and large the optimate is redundant.... think I only used it once this past winter when I was snowed in.

useful to have one.. but I wouldn't keep the bike plugged into it all the time - there is absolutely no need to.

bike has a cheapo Varta fitted.. now 3 years old.

 

[ciderman gs]

could be your battery is on the way out i had the same prob even to the point where i was stuck at a junction lights on and the abs faulted my battery was always on an optimate and it failed just when i needed it a new battery fitted no optimate no problems

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

in my experience black batteries last longer than grey ones

 

[King Rat]

Any battery charger (£15 from local car parts place) will keep your battery topped up - you just need to put in a bit of manual management. An Optimate seems to be marketed on the presumption of "plug in and forget". You can do the same with a standard battery charger at 1/4 the price - you just need to charge the battery (or if it is already DON'T), then undoe the earth wire if it is going to be stood for months on end unused - either that, or start the bike frequently and run it up to the engine warms properly and at sufficient revs the red light goes out for long enough that the juice used to start the thing is replaced by the alternator. - Neighbours will love you for this!

better by far is to just ride the bloody thing. 03 GS, still on original battery. Charged it once this last winter (I think it was this one - the one when we had that 10 day cold snap) and that is it. 6 years and still going strong. I would expect to get 8 years out of a good battery without spending much time charging it.

Boats have a hard time of it. They get a couple of months (if they are lucky) of use, then they get left for the rest of the year. Their starting batteries get totally neglected, and still last on average 4 years with this kind of abuse. Left to go flat until required, rapid charged the day they expect to get used (or started from jump leads/starter pack and charged via alternator)
If looked after, by simply storing fully charged they too last many years (6,7, 8) just by simple charging, store with frost protection (bubble wrap) and then charge gently once in the spring. Job done.

Optimate makers seem to have done a marvellous job of telling people about a problem/need that simply doesn't exist. A side light bulb soldered to two bits of wire will do the same job - attach wires to terminals, allow bulb to glow for a month or so, charge battery when bulb goes dim- that is EXACTLY what an Optimate does, only with a fancy, "digital" side light bulb.

 

[Comfy Old Boots]

I've an r850 r with it's original battery. It's a 1999 model. Never had an optimate

 

[D6]

As I understand it, it'll charge the battery 'till it's considered fully charged, let it discharge very slightly, recharge it again, discharge it slightly etc etc. It claims also to be able to 'recover' batteries in poor condition - whether it does or not I don't know.

.

a normal auto charger will recover a battery, u just keep charging, works or it doesnt,
personally im agreein with steptoe, optimates are pointless pieces of dodgy, but good marketing,
properly look after your battery and its not needed,

 

[E. Buygum]

Tarka is, of course, completely right that the "Memory Effect" applies only to Ni Cd batteries. However, any battery will only be capable of sustaining a finite number of even partial discharge-charge cycles and an Optimate will contribute towards that number. So would riding a bike (i.e. partial discharge on starting, charging from alternator) but at least you're getting some benefit/use out of it.

An Optimate will avoid repeated deep discharge (which can definitely shorten useful battery life significantly- even dramatically) so for a rarely ridden bike esp. with alarm is possibly a good thing on balance but for a reasonably regularly ridden bike would probably be a waste of time.

I'm fairly sure an Optimate would be sensible enough to avoid damaging "over charging" associated with cheapo/ old fashioned chargers being left on for too long (but presumably it does that at the cost of "no benefit" partial discharge cycles). In short, use of the Optimate trades multiple partial discharges (each of which reduces battery life marginally) for the risk of or actual deep discharges (which reduce battery life significantly). Benefit or not will depend on riding frequency, base battery drain and how much energy you typically use to start the bike. A well maintained bike will need less energy to start and discharge will be low which Steptoe could argue is why his bikes have fewer battery problems.

I have always started my Sprint/ VFR etc. every month or so if not used in winter. Not sure this is so sensible with an air cooled engine as you can't leave em running so long. Best to go for a ride, I would have thought.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

I agree wholly E Buygum, I don’t use my bike as much as I should, and it has an alarm so I believe my optimate is good. It is the same battery I’ve had on it now for seven years. So, must be doing its job, although soon i will need to replace it.

 

[Marjorie Proops]

Just because battery discharge cycles eventually wear out a battery does not mean that to avoid those cycles completely is a good thing!

I know that sounds a bit strange but its true.

For example - a road tyre really only wears out with mileage (abuse aside) - but a tyre will not last forever if you leave a vehicle stationary - it will crack, harden, and, if you try to drive off on it, it may well fail in a sudden spectacular fashion rather than in the progressive wear out fashion of normal road use.

I'm not saying that optimates and similar chargers are useless (I use one myself depending on bike use) - I'm just saying that constant float it not the answer to eternal battery life either - its not that simple unfortunately.

 

[E. Buygum]

J

I know that sounds a bit strange but its true.

Not strange at all....a battery like anything else will have a finite life whether used or not. (Although as a battery will always minutely "leak" even into the atmosphere it's a mute point whether a battery could ever be in an "unused" state). However, if an individual battery cell completely discharges, current (from the still active cells) can flow current into it in the "reverse" direction and probably screw that cell for good. The Optimate will avoid this situation at the expense of inducing multiple light discharge-recharge cycles which will possibly have some effect on long term battery life.

 

[Marjorie Proops]

Not strange at all....a battery like anything else will have a finite life whether used or not. (Although as a battery will always minutely "leak" even into the atmosphere it's a mute point whether a battery could ever be in an "unused" state). However, if an individual battery cell completely discharges, current (from the still active cells) can flow current into it in the "reverse" direction and probably screw that cell for good. The Optimate will avoid this situation at the expense of inducing multiple light discharge-recharge cycles which will possibly have some effect on long term battery life.

Yep I understand all that (please see my post No 12)

 

[ahutcheon]

Optimate makers seem to have done a marvellous job of telling people about a problem/need that simply doesn't exist. A side light bulb soldered to two bits of wire will do the same job - attach wires to terminals, allow bulb to glow for a month or so, charge battery when bulb goes dim- that is EXACTLY what an Optimate does, only with a fancy, "digital" side light bulb.

That's not what my Optimate does, nor would it be any use if it did - what if I want to go ride just when it's discharged the battery. It is what some conditioning chargers for NiCad batteries (e.g. for our VHF radios at work) do, but that's a different kettle of fish...

An Optimate float-charges the battery intermittently at a voltage that shouldn't cause any outgassing, with the aim of maintaining full charge, after bulk charging at a higher end voltage. It shouldn't do any damage, but may not do any good unless there's a current draw (e.g. alarm) and the bike stands for long enough to discharge the battery appreciably (10% of capacity might be enough, even specialist deep discharge batteries don't like 50% too often, like hundreds or thousands of times).

The battery takes more abuse from the charging system on the bike than from an Optimate (much higher charge current and higher voltage) without problems.