Won't start - faulty battery?

[Bastille]

On my ctek I see about 14.2 / 14.3v when the charger peaks. It then cycles IIRC down to 95% full before pumping up the voltage agin to 14.2 v. So I'd say 12.8 is not right.

Can you borrow another battery, ie one from a car and use jump leads to see if it starts ok? Your bike may have the jump start fittings. It'll be astud on the rear of the LH cylinder and another on the starter motor cover, along with the accessory socket, which IIRC is the +ve. You don't have it if to take the starter motor cover off you only have to undo the bolt and undo the accessory socket plug.

Otherwise a jump to the battery to see what happens would be my next try.

Okay guys, thanks for all the ideas. Unfortunately I don't appear to have the stud on the cylinder or the connector from the starter although I didn't understand the "IIRC is the +ve" Bit!? I take on board the advice re test meter on another battery and I will try to jump it from my car when I get the chance (dark and wet here).

I wanted to get some advice from you guys about this before I spoke to the supplier as I was looking for experience and fresh ideas. Once I've tried the jump start etc I'll then speak to them.

Many thanks again.

 

[John Armstrong]

although I didn't understand the "IIRC is the +ve" Bit!?

That stud is the +ve connection, I think. It might be worthwhile charging the battery up and seeing what voltage you get when the ctek says it's fully charged. Should be around 14.2v, just like when the engine is running. Then, wait an hour or so from disconnecting the battery and seeing what the voltage is. If it's 12.8v then your battery has plenty of volts, but, you do need to do a load test to see if it also has the capacity. Cheapest load tester is a fully serviceable starter motor system.

 

[davegs]

battered

That 12.88 is with no load on it turn the lights on and see what happens then.
Dave gs.

 

[Pukmeister]

Stuck an analogue multimeter across my bikes Obyssey this morning, cold battery (PC535) and it showed 12.5 volts. My bike fired straight up with no hesistation.

Plugged in my Ctek charger, terminal voltage rose to 14.5V as expected.

 

[Bastille]

First of all I would like to say hello to everyone (My first post by the way...)

To the subject:
I do have a similar problem with the starter motor as The Laughing Mole.
Battery only 2 years old and fully charged, at least regarding to optimate3.
However the problem is/was only appearing occassionally so far.

After I read the post with the loose magnets I have checked my starter motor today (finally not bloody freezing anymore!).
By disassembling the stuff I have not found anything wrong with the fixing of the magnets in the stator but more wit the rotor itself.
Inside the motor housing is a planetary gear. This one is closed to the rotor side via a round metal lid (I guess to keep the grease in place). It seems that it came loose and was grinding on the coil of the rotor which led to a short.





Some Photos...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29115499@N04/sets/72157612408743877/detail/

Does anyone know if you can purchase these bits as individual spares?
Otherwise I am afraid I need a new starter motor.

Bastille.
I was fortunate today to find a guy at work who deals with electric motors/startes. He checked my battery which appears to be okay with the drop charge tester. I have now removed and stripped the starter and found that I have the exact same problem as the attached post. The grease cover plate, if thats what it is, looks the same as this one and was jamming the starter. Now I am going to take this to work tomorrow and ask the guy if the unit is still servicable or is that the end of the line for the winding. Maybe one of you may be able to shead some light on that before tomorrow? (I think we need an emicon of a man praying). The winding doesn't look half as bad as of that in the picture here. Many thanks guys. I was stuck without you all. I think I'm just pleased to find the fault at this time!

 

[Steptoe]

Bastille.
I have now removed and stripped the starter and found that I have the exact same problem as the attached post.

MikeP had the exact same problem recently, i can't remember how he fixed it but he did, try a search and all will be revealed.

 

[Pukmeister]

Easy to check the windings of a DC motor with a multimeter set to ohms. There should be continuity between a commutator segment and all its neighbours eg start with a pair next to one another and you should see a reading. Leave the meter lead touching the first segment and just step around the commutator segments with the other lead checking for continuity on each. If no continuity, one or more of your windings have failed.

 

[HarryMcGuinness]

Give motorworks/ Motorbins or james sherlock.a ring in the morning... they're almost bound to have the parts you need. If not new then most certainly from an irrepairable (for other reasons) starter motor.

Many thanks for the info motobiker!

 

[Bastille]

The cover plate over the winding had jammed somehow on mine and a guy at work, the same guy, has suggested that there is very little heat in this area and that the cap/cover is only there to stop the grease from the planet wheels entering the casing housing for the magnets and winding. Therefore he has suggested that I can use something other than the metal cap to do the same task. Anyone got any theories on this please? Sounds fair.

 

[Stewart H]

How badly damaged is the original cap? I had mine apart recently and theres not much to it ? araldite ?

Stewart

 

[HarryMcGuinness]

I have carried a repair out on my one now. I replaced the metal cap with a plastic one, made up from a cable trunking lid. I've cut a round disk out via hole saw and filed it down until I've been able to squeeze it onto the planetary gearbox. The tension keeps it in place and it also works as an insulator now. I cleaned off the burned out insulation of the rotor windings and covered them with glue (hot glue gun). Cut off any excess amount of glue and tried to apply the glue equal all way round to keep the balance of the rotor close to original. Assembled the whole thing again and started the bike! What a difference this made! I couldn't even remember that the starter was ever revving so high. Within a good second the engine was running and no clock was reset or starter relay clacking. Took it for a ride with several stops to re-start the engine. Absolutely fine!
However, as much as I am happy now with this repair. I will not trust it to be 100% reliable, at least not at the moment. I will watch out for spares now just in case...

 

[cookie]

why don't people just buy the proper spares to fix these starters and rely less on the blue peter approach

top marks for ingenuity, but ten grand bike fixed with string and sticky back plastic? astonishing.

 

[motobiker]

why don't people just buy the proper spares to fix these starters and rely less on the blue peter approach

top marks for ingenuity, but ten grand bike fixed with string and sticky back plastic? astonishing.

I wouldn't even try. Much easier to get a fully reconditioned one from Motorworks £60.80.

 

[wedgie]

rather than using hot glue you could use electronic circuit board lacquer its the proper stif an yo dont have to worry about de-stabalising the rota you can get it from maplins

 

[Pukmeister]

Glad to see you've isolated the problem now, but I reckon you may need that reconditioned starter from Motorworks before long.

 

[Mike1150]

Glad to see you've isolated the problem now, but I reckon you may need that reconditioned starter from Motorworks before long.

yeh me too...... but loving your work all the same McGuiver would be proud

 

[Bastille]

I contacted Motorworks today and I must say I cannot remeber the last time I received such good service. The chap was really very helpful, polite and proffesional. They are sending me a replacement cap by first class post therefore, hopefully, this will solve my concern. Thanks to all of you for your help and advice and thanks to Darren for the help with the replacement. I will report the final result here.

With regard to the cost of a reconditioned starter, I didn't realise that they were £60 odd or I would of probably had one and also the exchange from here could be costly. Besides that, I think trying to resolve these situations is all part of the fun, or I could of just phoned the dealer and had them come to collect the bike and replace the starter for me at the quoted £209 replacement plus labour. No fun there for me guys.

Cheers

 

[Steptoe]

I didn't realise that they were £60 odd or I would of probably had one

You don't want to ever do anything like that. I'd have nothing to read and laugh about.

 

[forry]

Bastille.
I was fortunate today to find a guy at work who deals with electric motors/startes. He checked my battery which appears to be okay with the drop charge tester. I have now removed and stripped the starter and found that I have the exact same problem as the attached post. The grease cover plate, if thats what it is, looks the same as this one and was jamming the starter. Now I am going to take this to work tomorrow and ask the guy if the unit is still servicable or is that the end of the line for the winding. Maybe one of you may be able to shead some light on that before tomorrow? (I think we need an emicon of a man praying). The winding doesn't look half as bad as of that in the picture here. Many thanks guys. I was stuck without you all. I think I'm just pleased to find the fault at this time!

Same thing happened on Tina's bike stripped the starter and took out offending part but the windings were fryed

 

[Bastille]

You don't want to ever do anything like that. I'd have nothing to read and laugh about.

Ha ha, fair comment, and one I may of made myself. However, If it isn't persisting with rain tomorrow I will be re-fitting the starter and will let you know how it goes.

Preparing for the worst, any tips or recommendations/where and price I can get the best deal for a re-conditioned starter?