Yes or no. Scottish residents only please

[Devon]

I'll reiterate my earlier comparison to the playground bully scenario, Andy.

It was a poor comparison the first time and an even worse comparison this time

As I posted previously, if England had behaved the way the Scots have, the Scots would rightly be going ballistic; that wouldn't make the Scots "a playground bully", it would be perfectly understandably.

 

[AberdeenAngus]

It was a poor comparison the first time and an even worse comparison this time

As I posted previously, if England had behaved the way the Scots have, the Scots would rightly be going ballistic; that wouldn't make the Scots "a playground bully", it would be perfectly understandably.

Nope, read this a couple of time and its gibberish. Are you on powerful medication by any chance?

 

[snelly]

My thoughts exactly.

A very bizarre analysis....

It's a very bizarre situation.

 

[Devon]

C'mon Gerry. You know that's a pre-referendum position. In the event of a Yes vote, on The Monday morning then the real discussions will begin and monetary union (of some flavour) will be on the table. It's to RUK's benefit that there is union. And before you mention that its not independence with monetary union, I would ask, is anyone within Europe truly independent ?

The rUK would be worse then stupid to take on the debts and share its currency with another foreign country that it has no control over regarding governance, taxes and spending. It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world for good reason: it can't and doesn't work.
Trade in any currency you want including sterling £s but don't believe Salmon's fairy tale you will force rUK to allow access to our money to pay for your latest Darien.

 

[Devon]

Ronno, regardless of the outcome of the referendum, I think there is a huge problem in that England, which is by far the largest part of the UK but which seems to get the shitty end of the stick time after time. We are as pissed off as the Scots with the numpties running the show but we get no say in what happens to our country: how can it be fair that Scotland with less then 9% of the population dictate to the other 91% of the UK what our future will be? Tail wagging the dog?

Let me put it this way (and please, any Scot, answer me honestly) if the English had behaved the way the Scots have and helped themselves to free education for their youngsters but made the Scots pay, if we had gifted ourselves to free prescriptions, eye tests, old age age care, a parliament etc etc and the Scots were deprived of all this and then the English had gifted themselves a vote on the future of the union and told the Scots " feck you's, it's none of your fecking business!!!" How would you have taken it? The English have sat back and raised an eyebrow but now we are getting pissed right off and who can blame us? The Scots would have gone mental if we had treated you then same way: am I wrong? Is that threatening or a real grievance? Honest answer? Any Scot?

What if the English had behaved the way the Scots have behaved???

Nope, read this a couple of time and its gibberish. Are you on powerful medication by any chance?

Maybe you are a bit slow, possible something in the water? Whisky per chance?

 

[Ian J Hartley]

Then I'd suggest that there would be civil unrest

Not necessarily so!

Don't forget that the SNP wanted Devo Max. If that was offered, without full independence, then it's possible that a large proportion of the 'Yes' campaign would be happy, certainly all of the 'No' campaign would be.

It might go along way to calming things down.

 

[Wreford Miles]

Don't forget that the SNP wanted Devo Max

Devo Max... Is that some kind of energy drink?

What's wrong Irn-Bru? This is just another example of a minority making selfish demands, this time on the drinks industry

 

[gerarddwatts]

C'mon Gerry. You know that's a pre-referendum position. In the event of a Yes vote, on The Monday morning then the real discussions will begin and monetary union (of some flavour) will be on the table. It's to RUK's benefit that there is union. And before you mention that its not independence with monetary union, I would ask, is anyone within Europe truly independent ?

I'm sorry, but if you are relying on that you will be in for a very rude awakening. Do you believe that Mark Carney(BofE governor) is taking a 'pre-referendum position'? I don't think so.

And you are quite right that no-one in the euro zone is truly independent. This is at the root of the woes of the euro-zone. Which is why they are promoting common governance in Europe. Fiscal union and european integration is the answer from the eurocrats, giving a central body increased powers over the budgets of member states. The UK has thus far resisted these moves, and is showing continued growth, as distinct from former major european players...France and Germany for example. Scotland will be unable to do so if they apply for membership.

Let me remind you what the position of the BofE is:

"Dealing a sizeable blow to pro-independence campaigners, Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England, has said that “a currency union is incompatible with sovereignty”.
Speaking at the TUC Congress in Liverpool, Mr Carney made clear that an independent Scotland would fail to meet the criteria of a successful currency union.
A proper union would require free trade, banking union, and a fiscal backstop, he said.
“You only need to look across the channel to see what happens if you don't have all of those components in place”, said Mr Carney.
The Governor noted the Westminster view of Scottish independence would make creating the conditions for a formal currency union impossible.

Mr Carney's intervention confirmed that the Bank would not aid an independent Scotland in using the pound, leaving Yes campaigners with few options on currency.
"That's just the economics of it", Mr Carney said.
A new Scottish state might choose to use the pound informally, in an arrangement known as sterlingisation, or it might attempt to launch its own currency.
Use of the euro has all but been ruled out by European Union officials, as questions over what currency an independent Scotland might use continue to haunt anti-Union campaigners."

"Thats just the economics of it".....no word of bluff or political posturing there.

 

[Ian J Hartley]

Alex Salmond is in a pretty happy place right now, he knows he has won whichever way the vote goes. Pretty remarkable achievement really.

If he gets a NO vote he will definatly get Devo Max, that's been guaranteed, which is what he always wanted.

If he gets a YES vote he can demand and will get Devo Max if he chooses.

He needs to bring the entire population of Scotland with him, and Devo Max will do that. It will give him 90% of political and fiscal control of Scotland, whilst remaining in the Union, so he also gets the guaranteed backup of all the rest of the Union's support services (foreign and Domestic).

To me that would be the smart move. It would calm everthing down, including the financial markets and potential foreign investors. Once he has Scotland's economy sorted and ticking along nicely. A future vote for independence if needed would be a walk in the park.

 

[AberdeenAngus]

Alex Salmond is in a pretty happy place right now, he knows he has won whichever way the vote goes. Pretty remarkable achievement really.

If he gets a NO vote he will definatly get Devo Max, that's been guaranteed, which is what he always wanted.

If he gets a YES vote he can demand and will get Devo Max if he chooses.

He needs to bring the entire population of Scotland with him, and Devo Max will do that. It will give him 90% of political and fiscal control of Scotland, whilst remaining in the Union, so he also gets the guaranteed backup of all the rest of the Union's support services (foreign and Domestic).

To me that would be the smart move. It would calm everthing down, including the financial markets and potential foreign investors. Once he has Scotland's economy sorted and ticking along nicely. A future vote for independence if needed would be a walk in the park.

Ssshhhhhh. Don't tell everybody.....

 

[Blackal]

The only thing that stands out on most posts from North of the border is. It may hurt us, but it will hurt you even more. So that's good enough for us. So much for common sense and reason.

I do believe that the Westminster Government know that they are in the shit, if Scotland leaves, and it's not just about being "better together". If you think that "most posts from north of the border" typify this - then you are blind to the constant emphasis from the "south" that Scotland is fcuked if they leave the union.

In one post - we are raiding the coffers of the UK if we leave, in the next post - there are claims that with all the free education and prescriptions - that we are robbing the rUK while we are in the Union.

I don't think we have been "subsidised" for at least the last 40 yrs, but neither do I think that Scotland will be the land of milk and honey - if we leave. I do think that we can do better, however.

Al

 

[IOM]

All I hope is that if the vote is yes we dont all live to regret it I dont know enough detail to sway one way or the other but my fear is that many people who will vote, dont know enough detail either, if you dont like gambling dont go to the bookmakers.

 

[gerarddwatts]

I do believe that the Westminster Government know that they are in the shit, if Scotland leaves, and it's not just about being "better together". If you think that "most posts from north of the border" typify this - then you are blind to the constant emphasis from the "south" that Scotland is fcuked if they leave the union.

In one post - we are raiding the coffers of the UK if we leave, in the next post - there are claims that with all the free education and prescriptions - that we are robbing the rUK while we are in the Union.

I don't think we have been "subsidised" for at least the last 40 yrs, but neither do I think that Scotland will be the land of milk and honey - if we leave. I do think that we can do better, however.

Al

Oddly I agree. I do think we can do better. The idea of an independent Scotland within the UK family is very agreeable.

Unfortunately this crew is not the one that can take us forward....nowhere near. Sadly their lying and divisive posturing will have lost the once in a generation opportunity.

 

[trebor]

C'mon Gerry. You know that's a pre-referendum position. In the event of a Yes vote, on The Monday morning then the real discussions will begin and monetary union (of some flavour) will be on the table. It's to RUK's benefit that there is union. And before you mention that its not independence with monetary union, I would ask, is anyone within Europe truly independent ?

I think you may be right, but, assuming no other compromise is made such as Devo-max mention in other posts, I would think the rU.K. would want something in return to secure against possible repercussions should Scotland get it wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost to Scotland would be to give the rU.K. a much larger share of the oil revenues.
Just thinking aloud.

 

[Kaybe]

That will be the West coast Atlantic Margin "reserves" which we don't talk about?

 

[gerarddwatts]

H.M. The Queen got it about right at Crathie Kirk today.......think very carefully before you vote.....

 

[gerarddwatts]

I think you may be right, but, assuming no other compromise is made such as Devo-max mention in other posts, I would think the rU.K. would want something in return to secure against possible repercussions should Scotland get it wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost to Scotland would be to give the rU.K. a much larger share of the oil revenues.
Just thinking aloud.

Sorry but this post makes no sense at all. I think I am as 'no' as anyone could be, but the arguments against have to be sound to carry any weight at all. This 'argument' has no traction whatever. In the absence of a valid observation, best to say nothing.

 

[Tim Cullis]

In the event of a Yes vote, on The Monday morning then the real discussions will begin and monetary union (of some flavour) will be on the table.

Which bit of "NO' didn't you understand? Thanks to Salmond you really are in cloud cuckoo land. When the three main UK political parties stand together and say no to an independent Scotland sharing the UK pound, you better believe it won't happen.

Have a google for 'european currency snake' to understand the issues. The UK joined in 1990 and left in 1992 when it was clear that widely disparate economies cannot tie their currencies together. This was the first indication that currency union (i.e. the euro) wasn't a good idea unless you had total fiscal union (i.e. the same taxes, pensions, benefits, whatever) across Europe. And you can only achieve that from a federated Europe, in other words a United States of Europe.

One of the conditions of EU entry might well be taking on the euro and what that means for the future. Quite a laugh if that entails Scotland going from the frying pan of the United Kingdom into the fire of a federal United Europe.

It's to RUK's benefit that there is union.

Oh, I will love to hear your explanation of why on earth that should be true.

Some of the really unkind words said by the 'yes' camp (and that includes some of the posts on this thread) can't help but change people's attitudes in the remainder of the UK. A break-up won't be a pretty thing and you have to understand there will be no favours shown.

 

[Captain Black]

I think the biggest problem with Scotland voting for the exit door isn't actually the fact that the rest of us will be hit hard, its more a case of all the bloody upheaval that its going to cause. It's like four million divorces in one go, bloody logistical nightmare.
I couldn't care less now if Scotland stay or go anymore, the damage has already been done in my view, but I'd really rather not have the crap of the split in terms of cost , red tape and sheer inconvenience if at all possible.

 

[Deleted account 210516001]

I have just come back from a week in Northamptonshire and of course the topic of Scottish Independence comes up quite a lot in conversation with people when they hear your accent. I was shocked at the level of resentment about the whole process coming from people who did not appear to have any obvious political agenda. They see that the uncertainty caused by the referendum will hit their pension funds, mortgage rate and possibly their job prospects. Right at the top of the agenda was a real determination that if the Scots go for independence there was to be no monitory union as a point of principal. I found myself echoing the SNP position that the least disruption for both sides would be a formal currency sharing agreement with the bank of England as the lender of last resort but the attitude was overwhelmingly against such a move. I really don't think the SNP understand just how hard it would be for any party to sell this idea to the English electorate even if blocking such a move would cost them money. They have had no say in a process that is already impacting on their financial well being and this single issue is one that they see as being their "line in the sand" where they can make a stand. One old guy told me he had moved his bank account from Nat West to Santander because he had heard that Nat West was owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland and he was afraid there would be a run on Scottish banks following a yes vote.

If this whole independence thing causes a serious financial downturn then our fellow UK citizens are going to start regarding all Scots with the same loathing they currently reserve for bankers and we know how much hatred there is for them.