Yes or no. Scottish residents only please

yes, no or undecided


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the white paper,are you feckin delusional.fully informed!!it answers nothing and informs you of nothing.it has more holes than there are on our roads throughout the uk.bafoon & as for the nob slating scotland your probably a BNP supporter and married to your cousin you arsehole or maybe your sister???
 
It's notable how many responses there are on this thread which appear to be on behalf of England alone................

As a country - they think they are fcuking Archie................. Not even any slight acknowledgement that Wales and Northern Ireland exist......................

That's part of the problem - an arroagance which feeds the belief that they are somehow subsidising everyone else!

Al
 
That's part of the problem - an arroagance which feeds the belief that they are somehow subsidising everyone else!

Indeed so - they've bought the dummy that Westminster sold them and now they're spitting it out..... :rolleyes:
 
Why do you think we move to Scotland ?

Well I for one married an Inverness lassie, and moved up here from the North. I'm a Lancashire lad and always will be but after living up here for 10+ years I feel I now belong here and there are very few places that I would rather live, England being not even way down the list.

I think your attitude stinks, and your rhetoric bordering on facist.

I have family in England, Wales and Southern Ireland, and get to see them all every year. if we have to have another passport then so be it, but I'll be keeping my GB or Uk (or whatever they deem to call it) passport thank you.


Facist ?

Explain that please ?

I don't know why you moved to Scotland , maybe because your married a Scottish lady ?

The problem is people don't like the other side of the independence coin. It's nothing to do with being fascist you just don't like what the possible problems and difficulties might be because of this whole subject.

Nobody has actually stated what they think should happen when Scotland becomes independent. The list is endless in terms of breaking up the union. Do you think its fair that what will be a foreign and sovereign country in its own right should have the banking of another foreign sovereign nations bank ? I wish I could make one financial gambles in the knowledge that I could never lose my capital outlay. That's what it amounts to. . What about the military ? NHS ? Road and rail ? All these talk of matey matey lets curry on as before la la la la talk is miles from reality . If anything business wise Scotland would be another business competitor . You won't be UK nationals why ? Because you voted to leave the UK .
Surely you can grasp that bit ? If we can bring jobs to the remainder of the UK England, Wales and NI why wouldn't we ? We'd owe Scotland nothing nor them us.
Don't you think we should have borders ?
 
the white paper,are you feckin delusional.fully informed!!it answers nothing and informs you of nothing.it has more holes than there are on our roads throughout the uk.bafoon & as for the nob slating scotland your probably a BNP supporter and married to your cousin you arsehole or maybe your sister???

None of the above.... Your upset ? Because we won't sub your independence plan ?
 
None of the above.... Your upset ? Because we won't sub your independence plan ?

Keep up at the back, Blackie - he's on your side.....
laff.gif
 
It's notable how many responses there are on this thread which appear to be on behalf of England alone................

As a country - they think they are fcuking Archie................. Not even any slight acknowledgement that Wales and Northern Ireland exist......................

That's part of the problem - an arroagance which feeds the belief that they are somehow subsidising everyone else!

Al

Well your on your way to independence so what's the problem ?? I hope you get your wish I have no problem with that. Only your kind of saying we think we're subsidising everyone else. That's the very thing you expect us to do through the pound sterling via the Bank of England ? Act as guarantor to a country who wants fuck all to do with us ? Yeah right ... Dream on.
 
Keep up at the back, Blackie - he's on your side.....
laff.gif


Sorry I'm on my horse in full armour with the cross of St George across my chest, my helmet is closed and I'm swinging my English steel so everyone's getting a bit until I'm tired out and fall off my mount into the mud where I will lay until some bloke in a skirt chops me up .,:D
 
Sorry I'm on my horse in full armour with the cross of St George across my chest, my helmet is closed and I'm swinging my English steel so everyone's getting a bit until I'm tired out and fall off my mount into the mud where I will lay until some bloke in a skirt chops me up .,:D

Sounds about right..... :augie
 
Someone should close this thread, the vitriol is getting out of hand.

With attitudes from some on here, it's a disgrace to their country, if what is being said on here about a person from another country was said in a public place it would not go down too well.

And as has been said on here before, it's not the Scots wanting rid of the English, it's Scotland wanting rid of Westminster control.
 
Someone should close this thread, the vitriol is getting out of hand.

With attitudes from some on here, it's a disgrace to their country, if what is being said on here about a person from another country was said in a public place it would not go down too well.

And as has been said on here before, it's not the Scots wanting rid of the English, it's Scotland wanting rid of Westminster control.

It's opinions about a can of worms. You may as well get used to it as it will get messy in the media leading up too , and after this referendum concludes what ever the outcome. The whole starting of this process will leave a bitter taste both sides of the border as it will be a win or a lose in so many people's hearts and minds.
Sadly a score draw isn't possible.
 
OK Comrade. After the revolution you had better put me on one of your lists for shipment to the gulag because I own my own house and all property is theft in the planet you inhabit.

I'll have you know Mr Proud Homeowner that Mr Schtum owns one of the finest houses in a sought after hamlet in Fife .. with a garage bigger than my house (also bought and paid for in a private residential estate), and to all intents and purposes would be viewed on by outsiders as very 'middle class'.

Is appears you have a very fixed notion of anyone with socialist ideals. You are picturing us dossing in run down rented hovels wearing our kilts with a red flag in one hand and a claymore in the other waiting for the cooncil to send our benefit cheques out.

Maybe if you would get your fingers out of your high and mighty arse, and use them to remove your rose tinted capitalist blinkers, and look out yer bus window at the real world you might see people differently.

Mr Black. You are a buffoon and the worst kind of racist Englander.

I will not close this thread. Its showing the anti independence faction as they really are.
 
I'll have you know Mr Proud Homeowner that Mr Schtum owns one of the finest houses in a sought after hamlet in Fife .. with a garage bigger than my house (also bought and paid for in a private residential estate), and to all intents and purposes would be viewed on by outsiders as very 'middle class'.

Is appears you have a very fixed notion of anyone with socialist ideals. You are picturing us dossing in run down rented hovels wearing our kilts with a red flag in one hand and a claymore in the other waiting for the cooncil to send our benefit cheques out.

Maybe if you would get your fingers out of your high and mighty arse, and use them to remove your rose tinted capitalist blinkers, and look out yer bus window at the real world you might see people differently.

Mr Black. You are a buffoon and the worst kind of racist Englander.



I will not close this thread. Its showing the anti independence faction as they really are.


Racist, Facist, bloody hell you don't like comments where we look after our own interests after separation do you. Don't count me as anti independence by the way your entitled to do what you like as a nation, feel free to go independent, but please do exactly that, and don't expect the rest of UK PLC to prop it all up incase it turns shitty. Why not use the Scottish bank note pounds ? They're printed already " Bank of Scotland" " Clydesdale Bank" get the new federal government of Scotland to underwrite it all and join the world of national currency .

Or better still let England share your Scottish pound?

What other sovereign nation shares another's currency ??

This thread is like Alec Salmond, nobody answers any questions they just make pre separation demands. Remember your leaving the UK your not being booted out.
 
There's an interesting video clip from yesterday on BBC News Scotland politics.

A chap by the name of Jim Sillars talking about Scotland's own currency.

I'd attach it but I'm a think Englander.,I doubt anyone will post it, but its worth a look at least for the reversed view.
And as he's says we " England" are just as entitled to say NO to a currency union as you " Scotland " are entitled to say YES to independence.
 
What about the military ? NHS ? Road and rail ?

Military is currently Co owned and paid for although as far as the army is concerned we have our own regiments, commanded by Westminster at the moment of course. Road and rail are already Scottish networks and separate as is the NHS. England and Wales have their own NHS along with road and rail. Gas and electricity networks are also Scottish. Police and judicial system along with education and a whole load of other things are Scottish as well. It's really not that complicated since many things are already devolved. Military would take a bit if working out depending on what kind military an independent Scotland would want. Many see no need to go beyond our borders and costal waters. Others still see us being part of NATO and what that involves. One thing is for sure we wouldn't have to sail the 7 seas as there is no "empire" to defend.
Other things that are currently Co owned would be things like the inland revenue, DVLA and of course the bank of England. Yes imagine that, we already own a part of it, shock horror!
 
I'll have you know Mr Proud Homeowner that Mr Schtum owns one of the finest houses in a sought after hamlet in Fife .. with a garage bigger than my house (also bought and paid for in a private residential estate), and to all intents and purposes would be viewed on by outsiders as very 'middle class'.

Is appears you have a very fixed notion of anyone with socialist ideals. You are picturing us dossing in run down rented hovels wearing our kilts with a red flag in one hand and a claymore in the other waiting for the cooncil to send our benefit cheques out.

Maybe if you would get your fingers out of your high and mighty arse, and use them to remove your rose tinted capitalist blinkers, and look out yer bus window at the real world you might see people differently.

Mr Black. You are a buffoon and the worst kind of racist Englander.

I will not close this thread. Its showing the anti independence faction as they really are.

My capitalist blinkers are very far from rose tinted and my experience of the "real world" before I ducked behind the windscreen of my bus was considerable at both ends of the social spectrum. Mr Schtum could be said to have a very fixed notion of capitalism with its talk of elites and underclasses. If there was a "third way" as envisaged by Anthony Crossland on offer from prospective Scottish independent governments I might be inclined to give it a punt but my fear would remain that just with New Labour it worked fine in the good times but when it was handed over to Gordon Brown the old ideas of solving every problem by throwing more public money at it resurfaced.

As for Captain Black his views add little to the substance of the Yes No debate but when Alec Salmond puts forward his belief that after a Yes vote the rest of the UK parties would go back on their pledge not to enter a currency union he needs to remember that the candidates for any party that proposed such a U turn would have to convince all the Captain Blacks of this world to back them and I think his posts have demonstrated graphically what an uphill battle that would be.

Debating in short bursts on a forum such as this usually produces a "one side is all bad and one side is all good" sort of situation whereas in the real world that is very rarely the case. In the 69 years since 1945 there have been 30 years of labour government. Much of what they did was worthy of support just as I am sure you would accept they did some really stupid things. The same is true of tory governments but when being asked to decide on something as Yes or No as the referendum there is no room for shades of grey. There is no "none of the above" box on the ballot paper or UKIP or Liberal to give a protest vote to. By voting Yes I am tying myself to a socialist future for the rest of my life and there is no substance from the proponents of that socialist future on which to decide if it would be at the New Labour or Militant tendency end of the socialist spectrum. Based on much of what is spouted on social media the Militant tendency is the favoured option at the moment. For that reason I am out.
 
Yes its a cut n paste, But it sounds quite sensible to me. Its about currency sharing

Iain Macwhirter
Columnist
Sunday 10 August 2014
THE really objectionable thing about the argument over Scotland's currency is the scolding, high-handed manner in which it is conducted.

There is a serious debate to be had about what currency Scotland should use if it becomes independent. There are arguments on both sides. But the way Unionists such as George Osborne and Ed Ballstalk about it is as a schoolteacher to a rather dim child.

Ed Miliband has a particularly egregious way of talking. Very slowly. And seriously. About the risk. "If Alex Salmond gets his way." And how it would be the very poorest. In society. Who would suffer. When interest rates and mortgages rise and so on, ignoring the fact that it would be the rUK's monetary diktat that would cause the economic dislocation.

Scottish Labour Unionists are even worse. There is a kind of demented glee on social media every time a Westminster politician announces that Scotland will not be "allowed" (nyah, nyah, nyah) to use the pound, even though sterling is as much Scotland's creation as it is England's. The pound was, after all, the product of a partnership between two nations - Scotland and England - in 1707. The idea that one side could claim exclusive use violates the spirit of the very Union these critics claim to uphold.

Scotland is supposed to be a partner in the UK, not a colonial possession. When a partnership is wound up, the adult thing is for both sides to share assets and liabilities. When marriages dissolve, for whatever reason, both parties are supposed to seek the most reasonable and equitable division of common property. I don't particularly like marital metaphors, but when a wife decides it is time to separate she doesn't "walk away" from her right to the family home.

The idea of monetary exclusion is objectionable on every level. At its simplest, why would the half-million English-born people living in Scotland want to have to change currency every time they crossed the Border? And vice versa. Why would business want to pay the cost of changing currency for every export? A currency union is simply the most practical arrangement for two trading partners to manage their economic affairs when they occupy one small island. The rUK threatening to destroy the Scottish economy by undermining cross-border trade after independence is, as Professor Anton Muscatelli said in the Financial Times, "tantamount to economic vandalism".

Yet, we are forced to look to the infamous Plan B because we are told England would behave irrationally after a Yes vote, and throw its monetary toys out of the pram. I don't believe English people are like that. But even if they were, there is an erroneous assumption that an acrimonious and chaotic break-up of the UK common currency zone would exclusively damage Scotland. Not so.

If the rUK were to lose one-third of its land mass, 90% of it hydrocarbon resources and most of its renewable energy, it would be in a difficult enough situation. However, if it were to compound this by ejecting Scotland from currency union it would also lose Scotland's per capita share of the UK debt pile, around £110 billion. The Scottish exchequer would save around £5bn a year in interest payments.

At this point Unionists turn the scold-ometer up to 11. What a way to start independent life, they cry, with Scotland defaulting on her debts. An independent Scotland would become a pariah of the financial markets, shunned by the money lenders and forced to pay usurious interest rates in order to avoid a Greek-style default.

But this makes even less financial sense than the claim that Scotland would be exclusively liable for the debts of banks like RBS, which are already effectively London banks because 90% of their business is there. The markets aren't sentimental. They look at the bottom line when it comes to financing sovereign debt. They would understand that it had been the unilateral action of the UK Government that relieved Scotland of its share of rUK debt. As Alex Salmond has repeatedly insisted, the Scottish Government is more than happy to pay every penny of the joint debt, so long as it remains in a currency union.

Anyway, the UK Treasury has already accepted 100% liability for the debts of the rUK. The Chancellor, George Osborne, reassured the markets of this before his Declaration on the pound in February. He knew perfectly well the implications of his monetary gamble. Relieved of this debt burden, the Scottish exchequer would arguably be in better fiscal shape than the rUK, which has one of the highest deficits in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

At this stage in the game, the Unionists start to throw around words like "sterlingisation", "Panamisation" and "banana republic". They insist that Scotland would still become a basket case even though it had been relieved of UK

debt, because it would be alone in a hostile planet with no currency to hold on to. This is the most offensive and ignorant argument of all. Lots of countries effectively use other nations' currencies - such as Hong Kong, which shadows the dollar; or Denmark, which shadows the euro. Sterling is an internationally convertible currency which Scotland is entitled to use. The Scottish Government would set up a currency board and issue Scottish pounds based on a one-to-one parity with sterling. Job done.

Ireland did this for 50 years after independence, and UK pounds continued to circulate as legal tender in the Republic. It only ended the arrangement when it joined the European Monetary System - something an independent Scotland might do in the long term. The eurozone isn't going away. The rUK may even have to join it.

But no-one wants economic war. It's just not rational. The sensible thing would be for Scotland and England to have a common currency. But if England refused, there are plenty of alternatives. Switzerland doesn't feel like a banana republic, and nor does Norway. The two rich countries are not in a currency union with anyone.

Scotland is not Greece. It does not have a sovereign debt crisis caused by fiscal irresponsibility, low productivity and corrupt economic management. Scotland has a versatile economy, one of the most educated workforces in the world and GDP per head which is already on a par with the south-east of England. If it was forced by rUK intransigence into having its own currency, there is no reason on earth why it shouldn't work. True, the Bank of England would effectively set Scottish interest rates, but it would do that under any non-euro arrangement.

The oddest argument of all is that, if there were a currency union with England, this would "not be real independence". Alistair Darling is fond of this line, perversely suggesting that the SNP aren't really nationalist enough. He says that a country cannot be truly independent when another jurisdiction is setting its interest rates. But that is exactly what happens in the eurozone, where interest rates are set by the European Central Bank. You don't hear France or Germany claiming that they are not independent countries because they have a common currency - the euro.

When the governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, spoke to Scottish business groups in January, he said that in many ways Scotland and England represented an optimal currency zone, because of similar productivity, business cycle, exports, GDP and so on. However, he said there would have to be a "ceding of sovereignty" to prevent one side having exclusive responsibility for bailing out the other. A central authority - the Bank of England - would have a degree of oversight over borrowing and bank regulation in an independent Scotland. Shock horror.

Except that after the governor's speech, the Scottish Finance Secretary, John Swinney, said in effect: "OK with us." Why was he so willing to give up Scotland's economic autonomy? Because he knows that, in the modern global economy, national monetary sovereignty is largely an illusion. Scotland, as a small country bolted on to a much larger one, will have to accept it cannot set its own economic parameters. The alternative to the Bank of England is to join the euro - which is tougher.

Any way you look at it, for both England and Scotland, a currency union is the most sensible short-term option. But if rUK wants to play hardball, Scotland could throw as hard as anyone. Personally, I just hope it doesn't come to that.
 
An interesting article.

As to Milliband's commitment to not allowing a currency union, and not being able to back down from that.......

If that scares the voters into voting for the continuation of the union- then he has won.

It it fails - then it will be the least of his worries (if in power).

Nothing less than a "Hail Mary" attempt!

Al
 
Scotland has a vote to leave the union. Shouldn't the rest of the UK have a vote if they want to end the currency union ?

Blatant cherry picking.

At what point in this referendum do England, Wales and NI get a say in anything, or do we just accept the words of Salmond " it's our pound and were keeping it" so he's dictating english and UK monitory policy after he's taken Scotland out of the union ?
Don't think so some how !

As for the quote above about marital analogy that the author doesnt like to use but then does anyway !

No the wife doesn't walk away without claims on the house and contents in terms of a settlement, but she does walk away from her ex husbands bank account and she has to stand on her own two feet once the divorce settlement is made.

The reason Scotland are pushing the retaining if a sterling union is because Salmond has no other options or ideas for an alternative. You get your end the union vote we get the end of currency union vote. Seems fair to me.
 
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