You're all a load of lucky b*******!!!! :-)

[JohnnyBoxer]

Ah yes, I think we're kind of in agreement Johnny.

I totally have been suckered in by how impressive it was to ride, and some of that I put down to the fancy technology. But the fancy technology also worried me enough that I would only buy it with a warranty.

Everything comes at a cost... I think the joy of riding what I consider to be the best in class may be worth the financial cost of having to ensure I'm always backed up by a warranty.

To be honest, if reliability was everything to me I'd just stick with what I've got... DL650s don't break ever.

Summed up to a tee

It's about choice, either way is right or wrong - based on your own views

Everybody can make the choice that suits them and their pocket/aspirations

The new 12GS WC is a cracking bike, no mistake................but not for me

 

[loggamatt]

Fair play Johnny To be honest, I'd probably get a 2nd bike as well at some point, maybe a 2nd hand Honda CB500X... the powers of the WC GS seem like overkill a bit for my short commute to work or popping to the shops. Would save the GS for big trips and fun rides. Plus, you know, I'd need another bike I could rely on while my GS is having all that warranty work done

 

[dave hendy]

Just like a lot of your posts too, Bob........You're teaching me too well



BMW Motorrad have 'designed' this 'trait' into their marketing strategy and it's typical of their new class of rider

New entrants to BMW, attracted by lighter and more powerful bikes - that are inherently more technical

BMW Select Finance to 'tie' people into the brand with attractive monthly payments and generous residuals

Servicing by date & mileage and service light indicators, advising riders that it is time to come into the dealer

More technical software based bikes, that can't be fixed outside the Dealer network

I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just an observation and most riders attracted to the brand in the last 10 years, fit the BMW corporate strategy and BMW have done a cracking job, to lead by example for other manufacturers to follow

I may only have been riding BMW's since 2005 but I came from an 02 Fazer 1000 with 24k on it. I tried at least 15 bikes before buying a 6 month old 1200gs which was the best overall bike we found at the time as a do it all bike that was great 2 up and good with luggage. After an 07 GS I wanted a bit more power but the bike needed to be good at everything and it came down to a Blackbird or a K1300r, the deal I got from BMW was enough to stay with BM. We got on so well with the 1300r we got 2 more the last being last September. We then made the mistake in testing a 1200gs LC for the day in June, after 150 miles we were sold on it! I got my new bike at the end of July and we love it (apart from gearchange, have i mentioned that before)!

 

[BBB61]

Just like a lot of your posts too, Bob........You're teaching me too well

You didn't need any teaching Johnny, you have shown yourself to be a natural at it over the years. You claim to like banter but it's a one way street for you, as long as you are dishing it out, but it's a different story when you are on the receiving end

I still have a good chuckle when I recall when you were posting your usual comments about the 1200's and their owners back in about 2005-6 and you had not long bought your 1150. The final drive on your 1150 had to be replaced as it was faulty. "Just a precaution" you told us in the thread you started, but you got so much banter directed towards you that you decided not just to close the thread but asked the mods to delete it entirely

BMW Motorrad have 'designed' this 'trait' into their marketing strategy and it's typical of their new class of rider

New entrants to BMW, attracted by lighter and more powerful bikes - that are inherently more technical

There you go again with your generalisations. It's not just BMW that have produced more technical bikes over the years, but the majority of the manufacturers have followed this path. To meet emissions regs carbs have been ditched in favour of fuel injection coupled to engine management systems. Electronic suspension systems have appeared on Ducati's, Triumph's, Aprilia's and KTM's. Drive by wire throttles also feature on other bikes.

As emissions regs tighten up for bikes in the coming years they will all become more technical. ABS will have to be a standard fitment on all bikes over 125 from 2016 onwards so we have legislation driving forward technical complexity.

BMW Select Finance to 'tie' people into the brand with attractive monthly payments and generous residuals

Perhaps because BMW's do hold their prices better than a number of manufacturers they can offer this. But no-one puts a gun against the prospective owners heads.

Servicing by date & mileage and service light indicators, advising riders that it is time to come into the dealer

Are BMW the only manufacturer with service indicators on their bikes? I know Ducati also have them, and it wouldn't surprise me if Triumph have already followed this lead or are planning to.

More technical software based bikes, that can't be fixed outside the Dealer network

GS911's are easily available with the only bikes that are not compatible being the LC GS and the K1600's. Hexcode are already working on a GS911 that is compatible with these bikes.

All the manufacturers are using more technical software and the same will apply to them, but there are solutions being developed such as Tuneboys for Triumphs, and no doubt solutions for other manufacturers.

I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just an observation and most riders attracted to the brand in the last 10 years, fit the BMW corporate strategy and BMW have done a cracking job, to lead by example for other manufacturers to follow

At a time of financial strife BMW have continued to increase sales so their strategy has worked. But what exactly is the BMW corporate strategy? How does it fit all riders coming to BMW given how diverse their range of bikes is now? How many actually buy a bike on select finance?

 

[Hammy]

I totally agree about the explorer. Before I went for the test ride I honestly thought that was the bike I was going to buy....it was the one I fancied the most. In the end it was no competition

I bought my gs about six weeks ago and bmw offered me much better finance than triumph too. Got mine for no more than 6% apr...can't remember the exact figure

Triumph tried to sting me with something like 14%

 

[Devon]

Ah yes, I think we're kind of in agreement Johnny.

I totally have been suckered in by how impressive it was to ride, and some of that I put down to the fancy technology. But the fancy technology also worried me enough that I would only buy it with a warranty.

Everything comes at a cost... I think the joy of riding what I consider to be the best in class may be worth the financial cost of having to ensure I'm always backed up by a warranty.

To be honest, if reliability was everything to me I'd just stick with what I've got... DL650s don't break ever.

After 3 x 1200 GSs and a 1200RT SE (that I took a beating on, depreciation wise) I am now after a DL650. That said, the 1200GS is a fantastic bike which cost 250% more than the DL but is 10% maybe 20% 'better' but I guess M/Cs are all about thinking with our hearts not our heads

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

You didn't need any teaching Johnny, you have shown yourself to be a natural at it over the years. You claim to like banter but it's a one way street for you, as long as you are dishing it out, but it's a different story when you are on the receiving end

I still have a good chuckle when I recall when you were posting your usual comments about the 1200's and their owners back in about 2005-6 and you had not long bought your 1150. The final drive on your 1150 had to be replaced as it was faulty. "Just a precaution" you told us in the thread you started, but you got so much banter directed towards you that you decided not just to close the thread but asked the mods to delete it entirely



There you go again with your generalisations. It's not just BMW that have produced more technical bikes over the years, but the majority of the manufacturers have followed this path. To meet emissions regs carbs have been ditched in favour of fuel injection coupled to engine management systems. Electronic suspension systems have appeared on Ducati's, Triumph's, Aprilia's and KTM's. Drive by wire throttles also feature on other bikes.

As emissions regs tighten up for bikes in the coming years they will all become more technical. ABS will have to be a standard fitment on all bikes over 125 from 2016 onwards so we have legislation driving forward technical complexity.



Perhaps because BMW's do hold their prices better than a number of manufacturers they can offer this. But no-one puts a gun against the prospective owners heads.



Are BMW the only manufacturer with service indicators on their bikes? I know Ducati also have them, and it wouldn't surprise me if Triumph have already followed this lead or are planning to.



GS911's are easily available with the only bikes that are not compatible being the LC GS and the K1600's. Hexcode are already working on a GS911 that is compatible with these bikes.

All the manufacturers are using more technical software and the same will apply to them, but there are solutions being developed such as Tuneboys for Triumphs, and no doubt solutions for other manufacturers.



At a time of financial strife BMW have continued to increase sales so their strategy has worked. But what exactly is the BMW corporate strategy? How does it fit all riders coming to BMW given how diverse their range of bikes is now? How many actually buy a bike on select finance?

So I had a bevel box replaced at 500 mile service ?

Dealers advice in their mechanical opinion

Hardly a biggy?

I've done over 250k on 1100/1150 bikes without no FD problems

I've done 7k on a 1200 with no FD issue for balance - however many others have had problems at all mileages

Dealers tell me BMW finance used to account for about 10% of sales 5 years ago & older - now it's 50-60% & mainly BMW Select

Bob you have the memory of an elephant & if you re-read the 'feet up Uturn' thread you'll see that you also like to give it - but don't like it when multiple posters give it back to you

How about adding something real to the Forum, doing something for the members in your local area on here?

I'm taking some bods out today for a spin to show them my local area, maybe you could put something on one day

Why not come to an event - perhaps we could share a chat over a beer next year?

 

[loggamatt]

That's interesting Hammy! Seems as though the finance quotes they give you initially are potentially negotiable then. Maybe I will get this GS sooner than I think!

Devon - Oh, completely... I think the DL650 is fantastic personally. Bearing in mind the Triumph Explorer is twice as expensive, other than the engine power I didn't feel like it showed up the DL650 at all. As a newish rider I want to own a more powerful bike to continue my progression in riding if you like... but if I wanted a smaller engined bike again I wouldn't hesitate to have another DL650. You'll love it if you do buy it... there's also a good UK forum community for them.

I'd offer to sell you mine for... *checks price of new GS*... £14k, but I suspect you will decline!

 

[richie]

After 3 x 1200 GSs and a 1200RT SE (that I took a beating on, depreciation wise) I am now after a DL650. That said, the 1200GS is a fantastic bike which cost 250% more than the DL but is 10% maybe 20% 'better' but I guess M/Cs are all about thinking with our hearts not our heads

back of the net

 

[Aidan1150]

Ah yes, I think we're kind of in agreement Johnny.

I totally have been suckered in by how impressive it was to ride, and some of that I put down to the fancy technology. But the fancy technology also worried me enough that I would only buy it with a warranty.

Everything comes at a cost... I think the joy of riding what I consider to be the best in class may be worth the financial cost of having to ensure I'm always backed up by a warranty.

To be honest, if reliability was everything to me I'd just stick with what I've got... DL650s don't break ever.

If money is tight for you (as it is for many) don't dismiss out of hand some of the older model GS's. A twin cam 12 will give you very very close to the same ride as you had on the toilet at much less money or even an early 12 might still suit.

I ride an 1150 which whilst admittedly slower that the 12's feels much more substantial and better built to me. 1100's have a similar feel and also have a fan base here too.

Do try to get a ride on as many of the GS models as you can. There is a bike out there for you at a price that suits. Happy hunting.

 

[Captain Beaky]

I didnt bother with any HP deal - I went to the bank for an old fashioned loan.
It came out one hell of a lot cheaper than any finance deal that the dealer was pushing. Guaranteed value and all that malarkey. No - I say.

These bikes hold their value well - so just look at the "cost of finance" over the loan term.

My bank ( first direct) did me a nice loan rate - which was a LOT cheaper than financing the bike. And, if I should change the bike, the finance isn't linked to it - I don't have to settle the finance first...

I can not think of any advantage of going for finance if it isn't a stunning rate - or extras are thrown in. And still, I'd be looking at total cost of finance.

For goodness sake - shop around for a loan - go onto moneysavingexpert.co.uk - there's a good section there on loans and finance.

 

[GC6269]

I'm taking some bods out today for a spin to show them my local area

Ooh, when this then? I know some good places to crash round North Yorkshire.

Are LC riders welcome? I'm a bit of an arsehole but ok once you get to know me*








*learn to ignore most of what I say

 

[Bucephalus]

Two penn'ath.

That's interesting Hammy! Seems as though the finance quotes they give you initially are potentially negotiable then. Maybe I will get this GS sooner than I think!

Devon - Oh, completely... I think the DL650 is fantastic personally. Bearing in mind the Triumph Explorer is twice as expensive, other than the engine power I didn't feel like it showed up the DL650 at all. As a newish rider I want to own a more powerful bike to continue my progression in riding if you like... but if I wanted a smaller engined bike again I wouldn't hesitate to have another DL650. You'll love it if you do buy it... there's also a good UK forum community for them.

I'd offer to sell you mine for... *checks price of new GS*... £14k, but I suspect you will decline!

I love my GS and IMO it's one of those bikes you've got to get out of your system whatever model you choose, its an itch you scratch and like many here end up sticking with. I don't want to take this thread off at a tangent, however, if you like the "Adventure Thing" and money is a bit tight, just yesterday I was chasing two blokes on Africa twins over the Pyrenees and those bikes really surprised me how they performed. I appreciate that a good rider on an average machine will always beat an average rider on a good bike, but they were no slouches in a straight line either. I had a chat with this pair who were ordinary blokes, one had owned his bike for 10 years, and both had no problems to speak of, each did their own servicing, just something maybe to consider. I am the BMW corporate stereotype car and bike finance, servicing, stress caused by lights and in car information for non compliance, I recognise much of what JohnnyBoxer writes, but I must obey, I mean my car doesn't even have a dip stick!! Maybe it does

 

[DrAlf]

A DL650 would give an XRV a good run for its money. Whilst the Africa Twin was, and indeed still is, a great bike, it doesn’t offer much competition to a proper GS. Just not fast enough IMO. 100mph and you’re thrashing it. They are, however extremely reliable and quite literally unbreakable. I tried hard – 3 times. Some very sensible comments above – I’d be looking at an older GS myself rather than locking myself into a finance deal. However if HP or loans are your thing it’s also worth checking out the KTM 1190(R) and the Ducati MS – especially the pikes peak special. I’ve ridden the LC, 1190 and Ducati recently and both the KTM and Ducati offer a lot more excitement than the GS. The GS is a better all-rounder though. Good luck with your choice

 

[BBB61]

So I had a bevel box replaced at 500 mile service ?

Dealers advice in their mechanical opinion

Hardly a biggy?

So why delete the thread then Johnny if it is "hardly a biggie"?

I've done over 250k on 1100/1150 bikes without no FD problems

I've done 7k on a 1200 with no FD issue for balance - however many others have had problems at all mileages

I did 60000 miles on 1100/1150's with one final drive problem and 47000 miles on 1200's with no final drive problems. There have been issues on the 1100/1150's and 1200's in this area as you well know.

Bob you have the memory of an elephant & if you re-read the 'feet up Uturn' thread you'll see that you also like to give it - but don't like it when multiple posters give it back to you

I give as good as I get Johnny, as you can see in that thread

How about adding something real to the Forum, doing something for the members in your local area on here?

I'm taking some bods out today for a spin to show them my local area, maybe you could put something on one day

I did 20 years with the BMF Rider Training Scheme up to the schemes demise in 2005, as an instructor and also a director on the BMF RTS board, training many people in my own time. Prior to that I instructed with the Star Rider courses.

I've also put my name down with my local IAM group to run some of their rideouts. I have certainly put in plenty of hours to promote motorcycling and to give some good instruction and help to young (and not so young) riders starting out.

Why not come to an event - perhaps we could share a chat over a beer next year?

Ailing and elderly parents and a severely autistic brother in law take up a fair bit of time right now and does limit me.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Ailing and elderly parents and a severely autistic brother in law take up a fair bit of time right now and does limit me.

Hope to meet up for one day though

 

[BBB61]

Hope to meet up for one day though

Yes, one day when things have settled down with family Johnny, they have to come first now and with my mum nearly 91 and mother in law just turned 86 their physical health is declining. Nothing wrong with them mentally though

 

[Jumblemo]

Sell a kidney. It's worth it.

And if you are strapped for the obligatory Akrapovic sell a testicle too.

BMW prices....that's why God gave you spare parts.

 

[B4ndit]

Servicing by date & mileage and service light indicators, advising riders that it is time to come into the dealer

I like my GSA but I am now falling fowl of this crazy situation.

Bike was serviced at 1800 miles at the end of May. Therefore I thought 6000 miles time (Making it 7800 miles) will be time for a service. At 5600 miles the service reminder came on. Rang up BMW to see if it was a mistake. No sir they said. The 1800 mile service was its annual service the 6000 mile service is it 6000 mile service. So for this wunder bike with big service intervals I had the grand sum of 4 months between services and 4200 miles. I will do it as I want to keep the warranty.

So for a bike that is supposed to go 6000 miles between services it also has a strict time limit as well between services. And if the two don't coincide they come along much quicker. I estimate that in May 2014 I will have two lots of servicing. The next six thousand miler and also the annual. Knowing my luck one will be at the beginning of May and the other at the end of May.

I can't wait until this bike is out of warranty. Then it will be a service every 6000 miles. And I will do the whole lot each time for far less than the dealer will be charging.

I am not worried about the usual bits that break. I will fix them as and when the need arises.

 

[loggamatt]

I must admit, I'm tempted to say to hell with it and buy one somehow anyway!

I live in London at the moment, but will be moving away sometime next year. Can't buy anything until then because as a newish rider (16ish months with an unrestricted license) living in Central London, even if I could afford it the insurance cost would be crippling!

But as soon as I move, if there's any way at all I can afford it I shall be taking the plunge