Zumo or 2820

talaris

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I havea TomTom ONE but it is old and needs updating. The audio out is beginning to break up also.

I have searched and read all threads but can't seem to find a comparison so should I get a zumo 550 or a 2820 to replace.

Are the maps in the Garmin's similar in appearnavce to the TomTom offering- which is better.

Which also is the better unit for handlebar mounting, the zumo or 2820.

:thumb
 
I run a Zumo 550 having upgraded from a Streetpiliot 111. I considered a 2820 but in my opinion
The Zumo does viturally everything the 2820 does and somethings better at a cheaper price.
I find it an easy unit to use
I think its a more compact unit
It does everything I would ever need a GPS to do.

Stumpy
 
If you ever intend to do any off roading, or ride where the mapping runs out (Morocco for example) then the 2820's no good whatsoever for you.

It's seriously flawed as a GSer's GPS.
 
If you ever intend to do any off roading, or ride where the mapping runs out (Morocco for example) then the 2820's no good whatsoever for you. It's seriously flawed as a GSer's GPS.
Why? Please explain!

I agree that the Zumo is useless for off road and that the 276C/278/60CX/76CX are better than the 2820. But no good whatsoever is a rather strong statement. :confused:
 
Which also is the better unit for handlebar mounting, the zumo or 2820.

:thumb

To put the 2820 onto the bike you have to
1) Put in the power cord on one side of the unit.
2) If you're using a phone, then plug in the microphone wire on the other side of the unit after releasing the rubber cover.
3) Put into mount, push locking tab and secure with lock screw

With the Zumo steps 1) and 2) disappear so it's far quicker to mount and dismount when you take a break and leave the bike unattended.
You could always hope that the thief doesn't have the necesssary security screwdriver and leave the unit on the bike.
I do have a set of security bits and I have the tools to remove the mount from the bike - so don't tempt me.

I have a 2820 and I'm happy with it - but the Zumo is more biker-friendly for the average guy.
The 276C and 376C chaps have a point - but many of us want a more point-and-shoot satnav.
 
I agree that the Zumo is useless for off road ....

HMR,

Can you elaborate? What makes it useless? Presumably when you say "off road" you mean where the map has run out or you have a non-routing map.

Dale (looking for replacement for nicked 2820)
 
If you ever intend to do any off roading, or ride where the mapping runs out (Morocco for example) then the 2820's no good whatsoever for you.

It's seriously flawed as a GSer's GPS.

If venturing outside the map limits of City Navigator Europe is planned I agree. The biggest limitation with the 2820 is the fixed 2GB map memory with preloaded City Navigator Europe. No external card storage possible, only updates to City Nav Europe. If City Nav Europe is the area of travel I have no hesitation to buy a 2820 instead of the controversial Zumo. For a RTW-trip the 2820 obviously is no good since its memory is locked to the preinstalled maps.

On my workhorse 2610 I can install a big multi-GB Compact Flash and/or have several CF cards with different map areas preloaded. Ironically the route handling is better today on 2820/2610 than the Zumo for my purposes. - That is I can choose to turn auto route recalc OFF and autozoom OFF.

I don't agree that the 2820 is unusable for offroad riding. It'll be better than the 2610 for saving longer tracklogs (10 000 points vs 2000), but will not be able to take Garmin Topo maps like the 2610 can be coaxed to do. Topo maps won't auto-route, but the preplanned route will show up projected on top of the Topo Map, thus one can use the extra Topographic details.

Due to several incorrect Mapsource data (great lack of road details in many districts) I cannot recommend the use of auto recalc here in Norway.
This may be down to lack of info exchange between Garmin and Statens Kartverk - the government-owned Norwegian map company. It may take years of user input before auto route recalc will be reliable in several districts of Norway.

True story from Norway:
Two foreign heavy trucks where sent up a narrow gravel road and got stuck a few weeks ago due to errant GPS data. Morale: Don't trust auto route recalc unless you're CERTAIN the map data are up-to-date. City Navigator 7 & 8 have corrected this error, but beware on unknown territory.

Zumo auto route recalc can lead motorcyclists into unpractical/slower detours, unusable dirt roads, tractor tracks, wrong-way streets, bicycle lanes and pedestrian walkways. Don't ask how I know this....:eek

Until Garmin fix the Zumo autozoom/auto route recalc issues I'll refrain from considering the Zumo. It won't give me enough user control over two vital features for my specific motorcycle usage. Especially since my preplanned routes will be "destroyed" by default if I miss an intersection, take a snappy detour or stop to take a leak off-route. Restarting the route by 8 Zumo-menu choices enroute is not my piece of cake and makes the Zumo unusable for my purposes. Once this gets fixed I consider it to be a contender.

Instead I'll invest in a Gilsson ext antenna for my 2610 and seriously consider a Touratech 120 000 pt trackloggger to compensate for the 2610's 2000 point tracklog. At least I can control the route calc feature better on this olde thingie than the Zumo. :bounce1
 
Zumo auto route recalc can lead motorcyclists into unpractical/slower detours, unusable dirt roads, tractor tracks, wrong-way streets, bicycle lanes and pedestrian walkways. Don't ask how I know this....:eek

I used to have a 2610 but now have a Zumo. Headed off in the car yesterday on a fairly basic trip but couln't believe it when the unit suggested that I turned off the main road for a tractor track. The 2610 used to do this when I deviated from the initial route but it wasn't much of a problem as I was on the bike and led me to some new 'interesting' routes (this could be 'tuned' in the 2610 preferences but this is lacking in the Zumo). However, this was not a diversion and I was in the car. This has happened on several occasions and have now concluded that the only use for the Zumo at the moment is to direct using predefined routes from the PC which must be adheared to. Either that or simply ignore it until you need to locate your hotel in the middle of the city from 1 mile out, etc.

Shame really. Still, it does have music and can be fiddled with off the bike and doesn't resemble a brick
 
couln't believe it when the unit suggested that I turned off the main road for a tractor track.

I dont have one of these units, but spent some time playing with one this morning. One of the settings in the navigation section was "avoidances" where you could set the types of road to stay off. Does this not solve your problem (assuming the maps you are using know the difference between a tractor road and a freeway ;) )

Dale
 
I dont have one of these units, but spent some time playing with one this morning. One of the settings in the navigation section was "avoidances" where you could set the types of road to stay off. Does this not solve your problem (assuming the maps you are using know the difference between a tractor road and a freeway ;) )

Dale

Unfortunately no. It shares similar avoidance like the 2610 such as u-turns, highways (check this and motorways are prefered, not the other way around - bloody american english!), etc. However, the 2610 had three slider bars that you could tweak to determine the exact preference i.e. 50/50 motorway rather than 0% or 100%). Can't go into too much detail as I've been without it for nearly 12 months now. I use the map now to play safe :nenau
 
My understanding on the 2820 is that you can upload any maps you want into the memory. All you need to take with you on an extended trip is a small laptop with the other mapping on it. Then load up when you need to. It's what I do with my SP3 with the limited capacity "Garmin Data cards".
The 2820 unit comes with the DVD for Europe in the box so it can be reloaded any time you want.
Take a laptop with you and you can create new routes any time in the comfort of the hotel lobby.
 
I used to have a 2610 but now have a Zumo. Headed off in the car yesterday on a fairly basic trip but couln't believe it when the unit suggested that I turned off the main road for a tractor track.

That can be even more serious for an unaware foreign motorcycle rider in Norway since we have rather strict legal restrictions by law, regulating where motorized vehicles can be used outside public roads. A seemingly adventurous trail can have you landed in areas defined as "utmark", i.e. restricted/illegal offroad terrain where hefty 5-digit fines and rather severe legal reactions can end up in court. Nobody needs that on a vacation here in Norway.:blast

That makes the Zumo a potential liability for both Norwegians trusting the autorouting ("aaah, NICE offroad tractor trail ahead! Lemme check this out...") and unaware fellow European dirt-riders looking for adventurous scenic trails in our well known scenic landscape. Car-drivers won't be lured as easily due to the sheer size/weight ratio of their transport.:nono
 
That can be even more serious for an unaware foreign motorcycle rider in Norway since we have rather strict legal restrictions by law, regulating where motorized vehicles can be used outside public roads. A seemingly adventurous trail can have you landed in areas defined as "utmark", i.e. restricted/illegal offroad terrain where hefty 5-digit fines and rather severe legal reactions can end up in court. Nobody needs that on a vacation here in Norway.:blast

That makes the Zumo a potential liability for both Norwegians trusting the autorouting ("aaah, NICE offroad tractor trail ahead! Lemme check this out...") and unaware fellow European dirt-riders looking for adventurous scenic trails in our well known scenic landscape. Car-drivers won't be lured as easily due to the sheer size/weight ratio of their transport.:nono

But all that is down to the mapping detail. Nothing to do with the Zumo per se. Any GPS will do that depending on the settings.
 
But all that is down to the mapping detail. Nothing to do with the Zumo per se. Any GPS will do that depending on the settings.

That's my point. Lacking mapping detail in present Mapsource data for Norway and the presumable comfort of autorouting is ALREADY a problem here in southern Norway. An Autorouting-Only GPS like the Zumo will therefore by default have a larger route-failure rate and lull the user into a false feeling of comfort.

Especially since the Zumo actually makes me as a user MORE dependant on extensive prerouting on the PC beforehand by inserting VIA-points more frequent than on my present 2610. Otherwise this planned route gets auto-recalced and sends me up undesired back-alleys and ditto roads/tracks if the route is planned and executed on the GPS unit itself. Few (including myself) have the tenacity to insert a bunch of new route VIA-points on the small GPS-screen.

For adventure-riding and offroad-riding I find this very unpractical versus the 2610 - where auto recalc can be turned off, hence allowing the user less On-screen GPS-input while riding. Veering off-route will then not result in such need for user input (continuous route STOP/RESTART) as the Zumo requires. Adventure- and offroad-rides will by default not always allow a laptop in the luggage due to excessive vibration caused by unpaved roads.

That's why I consider the Zumo to be at best a paved-road solution for hotel-lobby enthusiasts lugging a laptop for tedious route preplanning by manually inserting VIA-points to compensate for the auto route-recalc syndrome. In my book that's quite a few steps backward, given the bad quality of Mapsource detail here. :blast
 
My understanding on the 2820 is that you can upload any maps you want into the memory. All you need to take with you on an extended trip is a small laptop with the other mapping on it. Then load up when you need to. It's what I do with my SP3 with the limited capacity "Garmin Data cards".
The 2820 unit comes with the DVD for Europe in the box so it can be reloaded any time you want.
Take a laptop with you and you can create new routes any time in the comfort of the hotel lobby.

After reading articles by fellow ST1100 owner "Paneuropean" I agree to the above by Howard.

* The 2820 has 2GB fixed internal memory (no external CF or SD card slots) - shared for both maps and MP3's.
* City Navigator 8 leaves about 700mb left for MP3 files etc.
* It appears one can make select map area installs, thus one can install other maps (US, Far East, Topo, World Map, 3rd party etc. ) on the remaining fixed memory space.

To me this makes the 2820 my favourite dual-purpose-bike GPS upgrade vs. the Zumo..
It does almost all the Zumo claims to mapwise, without the Zumo's disadvantages. In addition the BMW Navigator III and 2820 can take different GPS map datums - which the Zumo can't.:clap

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75201&highlight=2820+datum

That makes the 2820 my favourite dual purpose bike GPS today. I would even consider it for a RTW-trip on my F650 Dakar. If I only used my Honda ST1100 (onroad/paved road only) the Zumo would have its usage on well used and Mapsource-corrected main roads. Given the present map handling features on the 2820 and the Zumo, the 2820 wins hands-down in my book.

In both cases I would need a robust laptop brought along and a bunch of paper & digital maps.:bounce1
 
Having had a 2820 for about 6 months and having just taking a zumo550 on an extended (primarily off road) 2500km trip over the last few weeks I thought I'd chip in with my 2c worth ..... This summary was written for a mate who is a real beginner on GPS’s, so the more experienced users may find it a little “simple” – feel free to chip in if you think I’ve missed anything.

Some of the key features of the units as I see it:

satellite acquisition and lock: Zumo is way better. finds satellites faster and holds them longer. is also more accurate in its positioning. Net result of this is that if are auto routing and turn one road too early or too late, the Zumo will quickly detect it and recalculate your route. 2820 is nowhere near as accurate.

Mounting: for everyday use the Zumo is better and easier to get on and off the bike. Also locks in place better. After 1500km hard off road riding the Zumo didn’t shift once. I did have the 2820 jump off once when hitting a pothole at speed. A little quirk is that the security screwdriver on the 2820 is easier to use - it’s a torque driver so is self centering. Another strange quirk is that if you mount the Zumo on the bike and DON’T screw in the security screw, it seems to fasten itself as you drive! The vibrations of the bike clearly turn the screw in with the aid of gravity – then you get to the end of your journey and can’t get the thing off the cradle without the screwdriver!!! :)))

Screen: both are fine for bike use. 2820 is better in that it is bigger and you can customise the tabs. At first zumo screen was a pain, but I soon found how to get around the menus easily. 2820 lets you see more of the map at one time for the equivalent zoom level.

POI’s. these don’t show on the Zumo map while you navigate :blast but can be seen on the map browse screen at the 80meter level. 2820 lets you set at what level you can see POI’s and you can see them when navigating. Hopefully Garmin will change this on the Zumo asap.

Battery: Zumo has one, 2820 not. 2820 also cannot be powered through USB. I found this to be a real pain. You always have to be at a power source or mounted on the bike to use the thing.

Buttons: Zumo on the left – nice. 2820’s buttons have a better feel and are bigger.

Memory capacity: both can load additional maps and MP3’s. 2820 has 2gb fixed memory, Zumo 2gb fixed and up to another 4gb on SD card. Zumo clearly better here. Also, the SD card is easier to load with MP3’s using Media Monkey or similar.

Track logs capacity: 2820 has 10000 points. Zumo can hold around 200 000 of which the first 10000 can be used in a sort of track back style feature. The remaining 190 000 can be downloaded in Mapsource. Zumo cannot write track logs to SD card like the “x” series units.

Map datum’s: I can’t remember what the 2820 supports, but v3.2 of the Zumo software now supports a whole bunch of datum’s … more than I need anyway :-)

Proximity warnings (speed cameras): both will warn you of a camera, but the Zumo is better at it. I need to double check this but I think that the Zumo will only warn you about cameras on the road that you are travelling on … 2820 will warn you of any camera in close proximity. Iow, if there is a camera under a bridge (focussed on the road below) and you go over the bridge, the 2820 will give you a warning while the Zumo not.

Auto recalculate: enough said about this already … it’s a pain! :mad: On the 2820 it can be switched off, on the Zumo it can’t. The sooner Garmin provide a “auto recalculate = off” switch for the Zumo, the better. Having said that, I only find it a pain in off road mode (more about this below).

Then, much has been written about the relative merits and problems with these units for off road use. First, let’s just get some clarity about what folk mean when they refer to “routes”. As I understand it there are a number of different ways you can use a GPS to navigate.

One. you follow a route created on an auto-routing map. You specify the end destination and the GPS takes you there. If you go off route, the gps recalculates a new route and instructs you accordingly. Both Zumo and 2820 do this well without problems.

Or, as above except there are some points that you want to go via. E.g. London to Brighton via the Lake district. Again, both Zumo and 2820 do this well without problems.

Both of these can be created either on the PC (Mapsource) or on the unit itself.

Then there are tracklogs. These are routes that other folk have driven and saved on their GPS’s as tracklogs. They typically consist of between 200 and 5000 track log points and you can load them into Mapsource and see where they have driven. They are usually useful for areas not covered by a map.
The 2820 cannot accept tracklogs in their standard format – you simply cannot load a tracklog to a 2820! You need to first load it to Mapsource, manually create a route using lots of via points and then load it to the 2820 – it’s a really slow process and not practical at all.
The zumo on the other hand will happily accept a tracklog which it then “converts” to a route. What happens next depends on what you tell the unit to do…. If you have a tracklog that you want to follow, you set the unit to off-road mode, import the tracklog (the zumo converts it to a route) and follow the route – simple. If you forget to set the unit to off road mode, it tries to recalc the route when it is imported and stuffs your route up (basically draws a straight line from start to finish!). If that happens, simply delete it from the unit and re-import it from the SD card.

Now comes the real killer … if you have correctly loaded an off road route and follow it correctly from start to finish correctly, it works perfectly. IF, however, you deviate along the route, the GPS sees you are off route and tries to recalc from your new position to the end point, but because you are off road, it can’t route you along the road and simply draws a straight line from your current position to the end – bugger. Again, if that happens, simply delete it from the unit and re-import it from the SD card. Clearly not a very elegant solution. :blast

So, in summary.
For road driving (routable maps) the Zumo is slightly better due to its greater accuracy.
Off road the zumo is lots better (and will be even better when the auto-recalc problem is solved.) but you need to keep your wits about you and make sure you are in the correct "mode".
The zumo is easier to live with on an everyday basis (battery, size, etc).

Regards,
Dale
 
One other thing ..

POI’s. these don’t show on the Zumo map while you navigate :blast but can be seen on the map browse screen at the 80meter level. 2820 lets you set at what level you can see POI’s and you can see them when navigating. Hopefully Garmin will change this on the Zumo asap.

Oooops! double checked this and the zumo is not a smart as I thought ... seems it handles the POI's the same as the 2820. ;)

One other thing the 2820 does that the Zumo can't is aviodances. iow the ability to mark a portion of the map in which you don't want the unit to autoroute ... useful for avoiding Mr Livingstones congestion areas or similar.

Dale
 
Track logs capacity: 2820 has 10000 points. Zumo can hold around 200 000 of which the first 10000 can be used in a sort of track back style feature. The remaining 190 000 can be downloaded in Mapsource. Zumo cannot write track logs to SD card like the “x” series units.

Question:
Do these 200 000 track points show, say a three week adventure
journey or extend beyond the length of the 2820's 10 000 track points?

Auto recalculate: enough said about this already … it’s a pain! :mad: On the 2820 it can be switched off, on the Zumo it can’t. The sooner Garmin provide a “auto recalculate = off” switch for the Zumo, the better. Having said that, I only find it a pain in off road mode (more about this below).

As mentioned before this is already a disaster here in Norway when Mapsource autorouting has several smaller country roads to choose between.
Quite frankly autorouting in Norway on Mapsource basis can lead unknown riders into all sorts of trouble if trusted outside main traffic routes like E6, E18 and such. I've been sent up all kinds of daft side-roads, opposite direction streets, blind roads stopping in private courtyards, bicycle lanes etc. near Oslo and Tönsberg...to mention a few. The Zumo will only enhance and magnify these shortcomings.

The Zumo would therefore not work for my private needs as such, although I fancy the other features like BT, MP3 etc. City-dwellers and paved-road-only dudes were heard lyrically waxing the Zumo in Oslo last time I was there, but that doesn't cut it for my dirt-road usage. I want dirt-road/offroad preplanned routes with turn prompts along said preplanned routes sans auto route recalc and the 2610/2820 are therefore still my personal choices. YMMV.

So, in summary.
For road driving (routable maps) the Zumo is slightly better due to its greater accuracy.
Off road the zumo is lots better (and will be even better when the auto-recalc problem is solved.) but you need to keep your wits about you and make sure you are in the correct "mode".
The zumo is easier to live with on an everyday basis (battery, size, etc).

Regards,
Dale

I agree about the modern advantages of the Zumo like better antenna (SirfIII), ease-of-use, tracklog etc. but the idiosyncratic autorecalc and autozoom issues are showtoppers in my book until further. Given the grossly unprecise Mapsource data on Norwegian roads I'd be cursing it more than enjoying it the way it works today.

I have serious doubts that Garmin will ever resolve the autorecalc/autozoom issues on the Zumo series. It's a nav unit designed for ease-of-use on the paved road and is aimed towards the average Point-And-Shoot owner under a policy directed towards the gross numbers of paved-road riders who can easily live with its design profile.

For serious off-road/dirt road usage I'd personally rather go for the 276c/278c series or the 2820 (with a battery box from Touratech or made from scratch). To me the Zumo only enhances the default shortcomings in Mapsource data here in Norway. The moment autorecalcOFF/autozoomOFF and fade-offroute-sideroadsOFF are in place I'll consider buying a Zumo.
In it's present state I simply don't want it, but happily stay with the 2610 until these issues are adressed by Garmin. Maybe a Zumo 660 will pop up some time.:) :augie
 
Question:
Do these 200 000 track points show, say a three week adventure
journey or extend beyond the length of the 2820's 10 000 track points?

I'm not sure. The manual states that the first 10 000 can be used for conversionto routes and that the remaining 190 000 are written to an archive on the internal memory and can be downloaded to Mapsource. I haven't tried it yet myself, but should have enough tracklogs recorded by next weekend to give it a go.

As mentioned before this is already a disaster here in Norway when Mapsource autorouting has several smaller country roads to choose between.
Quite frankly autorouting in Norway on Mapsource basis can lead unknown riders into all sorts of trouble if trusted outside main traffic routes like E6, E18 and such. I've been sent up all kinds of daft side-roads, opposite direction streets, blind roads stopping in private courtyards, bicycle lanes etc. near Oslo and Tönsberg...to mention a few. The Zumo will only enhance and magnify these shortcomings.?

I do think that much of your problem stems from the poor quality of mapping in Norway. Bear in mind that when you are off road, you put the zumo in off road mode and it cannot autoroute anyway. At the end of the day it's a tool ... no different from a paper map ... if the user cant read the map he will go down the wrong road ... if you are going to trust your GPS implicitly when you know the mapping data is poor, you will have problems. Having said that, if you create a few via points in your route on mapsource and load it to the zumo, the zumo will keep those via points and you will be able to avoind the roads you know are bad.

The Zumo would therefore not work for my private needs as such...

I have serious doubts that Garmin will ever resolve the autorecalc/autozoom issues on the Zumo series.

As you say, each user will have different requirements, but even if you don't get a Zumo, do the rest of us a favour and write to Garmin and tell them that unless they have an option to cancell the autoroute you won't be buying one - maybe that way they will give us another firmware release without autoroute :thumb2

Regards,
Dale
 


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