loosenuts
Guest
Dear GS riders its been a while since my buddy “Triple” informed your good selves of the accident I had in France . I thought you might be interested in how things are going, so I have written a brief account of the incident in case you have missed the first addition . I have also included a copy of the Email by the engineer I was sent and a copy of the response letter I have just sent back along with reports from several of you who checked and found the same bolts loose. I have sent c.c. to Givi , Customer care BMW and What Bike magazine.
The bike damage is being repaired through my own insurance at the moment , it seems I will have to diagnose the problems myself as BMW are denying responsibility .
To answer some of your questions no I wasn’t pulling wheelies , doing handstands or even catching up with a spot of knitting, at the time I was simply riding on a straight dry motorway at a safe 80 mph . It might seem crazy to ride the bike after the first wobble , but I simply thought the experts had fixed it , stupid me uh!
I would just like to mention before I forget , I don’t think these bolts are loctited as I was told that they are pinch bolts and they don’t need it , which I hope is the case because the French dealership who retightened the bolts did not remove clean and reloctite them when the bike was examined.
Brief description of before and after accident
23rd 06 2005 I experienced a front wheel wobble at 70mph , my friend who was travelling behind , witnessed this . We both stopped and checked the front wheel for any obvious play . We also checked the bolts on the front lower bridge , these 4 bolts were loose . We did not have a torque wrench but the bolts needed very little pressure to move them using the small tool provided in the bikes tool kit.
24th 06 2005 we reported the wheel wobble and loose bolts to BMWdealer;
Etablissements E. IDEE
S.A.R.L au capital de 7.622,45
28, Avenue Roland Carraz
21300 CHENOVE
I was charged 25 euros for the bike to be inspected and the 4 bolts tightened , the head mechanic did not mention or seem concerned at the luggage. I retained the receipt for this thinking I would be refunded under my warranty knowing that these bolts should not come loose.
2nd 07 2005 at approximately 80mph obviously riding with caution after the first incident , the bike developed another wheel wobble so violent I was thrown from the bike.We again checked the bolts and found them to be loose.
4th07 2005. the bike was delivered to Allan Jefferies BMW dealer.
I and my friend described what had happened to the Head of servicing who said he would send me a damage report and any information on the loose bolts .
Several days later I contacted the Head of servicing who said he hadn’t been able to reach a spokesman from BMW but he would be in contact with me when he did.
A day or so later I was informed that the BMW spokesman had said that the bolts cannot become loose and that BMW cannot be responsible for the stability of the bike due to the Givi panniers fitted.
27th 7 2005 I was sent the damage estimate but I did not receive in writing the
statement I had been earlier quoted.
E mail
Thank you for sending me the photos of the customers bike. Fortunately it is rare that I see bikes like this. I do not understand how customers feel that they can fit luggage such as this and not have a handling problem. It is a well known fact that any type of pannier can affect the straight line stability of a bike when being ridden at speed, hence the caution warnings in the handbook. To fit panniers such as are on this GS is absurd. I suggest that the customer discuss this with Givi, if it is their recommendation. The maximum permitted weight capacity is described in the handbook, but basic aerodynamics should be considered. From our experience of after market panniers, we also know that problems arise even when not loaded. This is normally caused by a harmonic vibration produced by trying to push large panniers through still air when riding. The panniers have not been tested by the manufacturer on this bike in a wind tunnel.
In relation to bolts coming loose, if they were torqued correctly as described in the repair manual they will not come loose. I would suggest that the panniers and mountings are removed from the bike and it is tested for handling issues by the Senior Technician in your workshop. I am confident that there will not be a problem.
Dear Mr Godolphin,
I am taking this opportunity to convey my thoughts on an email that was forwarded on to me on the 29th july 2005 from the recipient, Louise Jefferies ; the manager of Allan Jefferies BMW main dealer in Shipley . I did ask for a statement in writing but this is all I have received and so I must come to the conclusion that I am expected to treat this email as the statement I requested..
I am quite insulted in what as been said concerning the Givi panniers fitted to my R1200 GS, as I informed L Jefferies that when I was ordering the bike from her dealership I discussed panniers with the sales person, I said I would prefer fitting Givi for the design would best suit the purpose I was buying the bike for which was for my paragliding activities.. the sales person with no hesitation asked the parts department for a price , I was quoted for the supply and fitting of Givi panniers and at no time was I informed or given information that the boxes were untested and could cause instability problems.. so imagine my surprise when the bike was delivered to A. Jefferies following the accident and I was informed by the head of servicing that BMW believe that the Givi with which I had covered 5500 miles are to blame for suddenly making the bike unstable and it was nothing to do with the bolts which secure the fork bridge which my friend and I found loose after the accident . These were the same bolts I had to pay a BMW dealership in France to torque up after finding them loose after the first wheel wobble some 500 miles and several days prior to the crash. I agree these bolts if torqued correctly should not become loose , it seems either bolts were not torqued correctly at manufacture and again at the dealership in France or that the bolts are actually becoming loose, the latter seems to be the case as several Gs riders have discovered, when they checked their bikes after my concerned friend reported the incident on UKGS’er.com.
I agree with BMW not taking responsibility for non approved accessories or parts I however having been quoted for GIVI by the main dealer and not receiving any information on the stability issue, one would naturally assume that the boxes are approved when the dealership themselves offer to fit them.
As is stated on page 92 of the riders manual I received after purchasing the bike
• “ BMW accessories and BMW approved products can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer”.
It does not say BMW accessories and BMW non approved parts can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer who will sell you allegedly inappropriate accessories for extra profit, regardless of rider safety.
Suggesting that just because Givi have not been tested by BMW means that they are unstable and are to blame for this accident. is absurd .
It seems remarkable that one can merely look at a photograph of the bikes set up and come to this conclusion . When I look at the square shaped boxes of BMW in comparison to the more rounded GIVI , I would assume ( maybe wrongly ) that the effects of induced and parasitic drag on the seemingly more aerodynamic shape would be less than on the BMW design.
As far as I am aware aerodynamics are ruled by the laws of physics and as such, one would expect these physical effects on the bike to have taken place from the time the panniers were fitted and not thousands of miles later.
After reading the reports from non biased GS riders on the UKGSer .com, I believe there are probably a combination of factors causing this unfortunate incident .
The tyres had only 700 miles from new and so were of good tread depth and as one GS rider stated that the compound make up of the French motor ways could cause an unusual vibration coupled with the lighter front end of the 1200 compared to the 25 kilo heavier 1150 GS , this could cause loosening of these bolts . This in turn could have a very serious effect on the handling as the bike is buffeted during normal motorway conditions ; once the swagger on the wheel begins the momentum cannot be controlled because of the lower fork bridge being loose .
I would like to point out that the test of the bike did not mirror the conditions I myself experienced , the bolts were not loose as I found them after the accident ( practically finger tight ) as I had to tighten them up myself . . the technician did not carry any weight and thus the bike would handle differently.
I don’t know how long I was travelling with the bolts loose before the right conditions were induced so it is difficult to say what test can be set up, may be we should let all GS riders continue to road test them , I am sure more data will roll in.
Why should I the customer, have to chase after BMW to get proper information This is exactly what has happened when I was ordering the bike; no information given to me about panniers. Now again I cannot get an official statement regarding these matters and why do I have to investigate through the internet to get answers to very serious questions about loosened bolts which surely are causing mine and other GS riders bikes to be in a dangerous and un roadworthy condition?
I would be very interested to know if there are any GS riders who have experienced similar lightness and instability and have assumed it was rider error or GS riders who have reported such incidents only to have been given the brush off like I am being given.
I have spent over nine thousand five hundred pounds with BMW and followed all servicing requirements to validate my warranty .
I am appalled that customer care following my purchase has been not merely disinterested , but actively unhelpful , rude and condescending.
*
Finally I would just like to say , I bought the R1200GS because I thought it was one of the safest motorcycles on the road made and backed by the best motorcycle manufacture in the world .How wrong can a guy be? almost dead wrong.
Well I hope that lets you no the state of play up to now
I was just thinking that one of the reasons I bought the bike was that I wouldn’t have the hassle of oiling the chain. Well it is one less thing to worry about.
I would appreciate any more information from R1200gs riders who have found these bolts loose on their bikes , it’s the bolts on the lower bridge to forks.. it looks like I will have to take legal action and the more info the better.
Dear Mr Godolphin,
I am taking this opportunity to convey my thoughts on an email that was forwarded on to me on the 29th july 2005 from the recipient, Louise Jefferies ; the manager of Allan Jefferies BMW main dealer in Shipley . I did ask for a statement in writing but this is all I have received and so I must come to the conclusion that I am expected to treat this email as the statement I requested..
I am quite insulted in what as been said concerning the Givi panniers fitted to my R1200 GS, as I informed L Jefferies that when I was ordering the bike from her dealership I discussed panniers with the sales person, I said I would prefer fitting Givi for the design would best suit the purpose I was buying the bike for which was for my paragliding activities.. the sales person with no hesitation asked the parts department for a price , I was quoted for the supply and fitting of Givi panniers and at no time was I informed or given information that the boxes were untested and could cause instability problems.. so imagine my surprise when the bike was delivered to A. Jefferies following the accident and I was informed by the head of servicing that BMW believe that the Givi with which I had covered 5500 miles are to blame for suddenly making the bike unstable and it was nothing to do with the bolts which secure the fork bridge which my friend and I found loose after the accident . These were the same bolts I had to pay a BMW dealership in France to torque up after finding them loose after the first wheel wobble some 500 miles and several days prior to the crash. I agree these bolts if torqued correctly should not become loose , it seems either bolts were not torqued correctly at manufacture and again at the dealership in France or that the bolts are actually becoming loose, the latter seems to be the case as several Gs riders have discovered, when they checked their bikes after my concerned friend reported the incident on UKGS’er.com.
I agree with BMW not taking responsibility for non approved accessories or parts I however having been quoted for GIVI by the main dealer and not receiving any information on the stability issue, one would naturally assume that the boxes are approved when the dealership themselves offer to fit them.
As is stated on page 92 of the riders manual I received after purchasing the bike
• “ BMW accessories and BMW approved products can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer”.
It does not say BMW accessories and BMW non approved parts can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer who will sell you allegedly inappropriate accessories for extra profit, regardless of rider safety.
Suggesting that just because Givi have not been tested by BMW means that they are unstable and are to blame for this accident. is absurd .
It seems remarkable that one can merely look at a photograph of the bikes set up and come to this conclusion . When I look at the square shaped boxes of BMW in comparison to the more rounded GIVI , I would assume ( maybe wrongly ) that the effects of induced and parasitic drag on the seemingly more aerodynamic shape would be less than on the BMW design.
As far as I am aware aerodynamics are ruled by the laws of physics and as such, one would expect these physical effects on the bike to have taken place from the time the panniers were fitted and not thousands of miles later.
After reading the reports from non biased GS riders on the UKGSer .com, I believe there are probably a combination of factors causing this unfortunate incident .
The tyres had only 700 miles from new and so were of good tread depth and as one GS rider stated that the compound make up of the French motor ways could cause an unusual vibration coupled with the lighter front end of the 1200 compared to the 25 kilo heavier 1150 GS , this could cause loosening of these bolts . This in turn could have a very serious effect on the handling as the bike is buffeted during normal motorway conditions ; once the swagger on the wheel begins the momentum cannot be controlled because of the lower fork bridge being loose .
I would like to point out that the test of the bike did not mirror the conditions I myself experienced , the bolts were not loose as I found them after the accident ( practically finger tight ) as I had to tighten them up myself . . the technician did not carry any weight and thus the bike would handle differently.
I don’t know how long I was travelling with the bolts loose before the right conditions were induced so it is difficult to say what test can be set up, may be we should let all GS riders continue to road test them , I am sure more data will roll in.
Why should I the customer, have to chase after BMW to get proper information This is exactly what has happened when I was ordering the bike; no information given to me about panniers. Now again I cannot get an official statement regarding these matters and why do I have to investigate through the internet to get answers to very serious questions about loosened bolts which surely are causing mine and other GS riders bikes to be in a dangerous and un roadworthy condition?
I would be very interested to know if there are any GS riders who have experienced similar lightness and instability and have assumed it was rider error or GS riders who have reported such incidents only to have been given the brush off like I am being given.
I have spent over nine thousand five hundred pounds with BMW and followed all servicing requirements to validate my warranty .
I am appalled that customer care following my purchase has been not merely disinterested , but actively unhelpful , rude and condescending.
*
Finally I would just like to say , I bought the R1200GS because I thought it was one of the safest motorcycles on the road made and backed by the best motorcycle manufacture in the world .How wrong can a guy be? almost dead wrong.
Well I hope that lets you no the state of play up to now
I was just thinking that one of the reasons I bought the bike was that I wouldn’t have the hassle of oiling the chain. Well it is one less thing to worry about.
The bike damage is being repaired through my own insurance at the moment , it seems I will have to diagnose the problems myself as BMW are denying responsibility .
To answer some of your questions no I wasn’t pulling wheelies , doing handstands or even catching up with a spot of knitting, at the time I was simply riding on a straight dry motorway at a safe 80 mph . It might seem crazy to ride the bike after the first wobble , but I simply thought the experts had fixed it , stupid me uh!
I would just like to mention before I forget , I don’t think these bolts are loctited as I was told that they are pinch bolts and they don’t need it , which I hope is the case because the French dealership who retightened the bolts did not remove clean and reloctite them when the bike was examined.
Brief description of before and after accident
23rd 06 2005 I experienced a front wheel wobble at 70mph , my friend who was travelling behind , witnessed this . We both stopped and checked the front wheel for any obvious play . We also checked the bolts on the front lower bridge , these 4 bolts were loose . We did not have a torque wrench but the bolts needed very little pressure to move them using the small tool provided in the bikes tool kit.
24th 06 2005 we reported the wheel wobble and loose bolts to BMWdealer;
Etablissements E. IDEE
S.A.R.L au capital de 7.622,45
28, Avenue Roland Carraz
21300 CHENOVE
I was charged 25 euros for the bike to be inspected and the 4 bolts tightened , the head mechanic did not mention or seem concerned at the luggage. I retained the receipt for this thinking I would be refunded under my warranty knowing that these bolts should not come loose.
2nd 07 2005 at approximately 80mph obviously riding with caution after the first incident , the bike developed another wheel wobble so violent I was thrown from the bike.We again checked the bolts and found them to be loose.
4th07 2005. the bike was delivered to Allan Jefferies BMW dealer.
I and my friend described what had happened to the Head of servicing who said he would send me a damage report and any information on the loose bolts .
Several days later I contacted the Head of servicing who said he hadn’t been able to reach a spokesman from BMW but he would be in contact with me when he did.
A day or so later I was informed that the BMW spokesman had said that the bolts cannot become loose and that BMW cannot be responsible for the stability of the bike due to the Givi panniers fitted.
27th 7 2005 I was sent the damage estimate but I did not receive in writing the
statement I had been earlier quoted.
E mail
Thank you for sending me the photos of the customers bike. Fortunately it is rare that I see bikes like this. I do not understand how customers feel that they can fit luggage such as this and not have a handling problem. It is a well known fact that any type of pannier can affect the straight line stability of a bike when being ridden at speed, hence the caution warnings in the handbook. To fit panniers such as are on this GS is absurd. I suggest that the customer discuss this with Givi, if it is their recommendation. The maximum permitted weight capacity is described in the handbook, but basic aerodynamics should be considered. From our experience of after market panniers, we also know that problems arise even when not loaded. This is normally caused by a harmonic vibration produced by trying to push large panniers through still air when riding. The panniers have not been tested by the manufacturer on this bike in a wind tunnel.
In relation to bolts coming loose, if they were torqued correctly as described in the repair manual they will not come loose. I would suggest that the panniers and mountings are removed from the bike and it is tested for handling issues by the Senior Technician in your workshop. I am confident that there will not be a problem.
Dear Mr Godolphin,
I am taking this opportunity to convey my thoughts on an email that was forwarded on to me on the 29th july 2005 from the recipient, Louise Jefferies ; the manager of Allan Jefferies BMW main dealer in Shipley . I did ask for a statement in writing but this is all I have received and so I must come to the conclusion that I am expected to treat this email as the statement I requested..
I am quite insulted in what as been said concerning the Givi panniers fitted to my R1200 GS, as I informed L Jefferies that when I was ordering the bike from her dealership I discussed panniers with the sales person, I said I would prefer fitting Givi for the design would best suit the purpose I was buying the bike for which was for my paragliding activities.. the sales person with no hesitation asked the parts department for a price , I was quoted for the supply and fitting of Givi panniers and at no time was I informed or given information that the boxes were untested and could cause instability problems.. so imagine my surprise when the bike was delivered to A. Jefferies following the accident and I was informed by the head of servicing that BMW believe that the Givi with which I had covered 5500 miles are to blame for suddenly making the bike unstable and it was nothing to do with the bolts which secure the fork bridge which my friend and I found loose after the accident . These were the same bolts I had to pay a BMW dealership in France to torque up after finding them loose after the first wheel wobble some 500 miles and several days prior to the crash. I agree these bolts if torqued correctly should not become loose , it seems either bolts were not torqued correctly at manufacture and again at the dealership in France or that the bolts are actually becoming loose, the latter seems to be the case as several Gs riders have discovered, when they checked their bikes after my concerned friend reported the incident on UKGS’er.com.
I agree with BMW not taking responsibility for non approved accessories or parts I however having been quoted for GIVI by the main dealer and not receiving any information on the stability issue, one would naturally assume that the boxes are approved when the dealership themselves offer to fit them.
As is stated on page 92 of the riders manual I received after purchasing the bike
• “ BMW accessories and BMW approved products can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer”.
It does not say BMW accessories and BMW non approved parts can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer who will sell you allegedly inappropriate accessories for extra profit, regardless of rider safety.
Suggesting that just because Givi have not been tested by BMW means that they are unstable and are to blame for this accident. is absurd .
It seems remarkable that one can merely look at a photograph of the bikes set up and come to this conclusion . When I look at the square shaped boxes of BMW in comparison to the more rounded GIVI , I would assume ( maybe wrongly ) that the effects of induced and parasitic drag on the seemingly more aerodynamic shape would be less than on the BMW design.
As far as I am aware aerodynamics are ruled by the laws of physics and as such, one would expect these physical effects on the bike to have taken place from the time the panniers were fitted and not thousands of miles later.
After reading the reports from non biased GS riders on the UKGSer .com, I believe there are probably a combination of factors causing this unfortunate incident .
The tyres had only 700 miles from new and so were of good tread depth and as one GS rider stated that the compound make up of the French motor ways could cause an unusual vibration coupled with the lighter front end of the 1200 compared to the 25 kilo heavier 1150 GS , this could cause loosening of these bolts . This in turn could have a very serious effect on the handling as the bike is buffeted during normal motorway conditions ; once the swagger on the wheel begins the momentum cannot be controlled because of the lower fork bridge being loose .
I would like to point out that the test of the bike did not mirror the conditions I myself experienced , the bolts were not loose as I found them after the accident ( practically finger tight ) as I had to tighten them up myself . . the technician did not carry any weight and thus the bike would handle differently.
I don’t know how long I was travelling with the bolts loose before the right conditions were induced so it is difficult to say what test can be set up, may be we should let all GS riders continue to road test them , I am sure more data will roll in.
Why should I the customer, have to chase after BMW to get proper information This is exactly what has happened when I was ordering the bike; no information given to me about panniers. Now again I cannot get an official statement regarding these matters and why do I have to investigate through the internet to get answers to very serious questions about loosened bolts which surely are causing mine and other GS riders bikes to be in a dangerous and un roadworthy condition?
I would be very interested to know if there are any GS riders who have experienced similar lightness and instability and have assumed it was rider error or GS riders who have reported such incidents only to have been given the brush off like I am being given.
I have spent over nine thousand five hundred pounds with BMW and followed all servicing requirements to validate my warranty .
I am appalled that customer care following my purchase has been not merely disinterested , but actively unhelpful , rude and condescending.
*
Finally I would just like to say , I bought the R1200GS because I thought it was one of the safest motorcycles on the road made and backed by the best motorcycle manufacture in the world .How wrong can a guy be? almost dead wrong.
Well I hope that lets you no the state of play up to now
I was just thinking that one of the reasons I bought the bike was that I wouldn’t have the hassle of oiling the chain. Well it is one less thing to worry about.
I would appreciate any more information from R1200gs riders who have found these bolts loose on their bikes , it’s the bolts on the lower bridge to forks.. it looks like I will have to take legal action and the more info the better.
Dear Mr Godolphin,
I am taking this opportunity to convey my thoughts on an email that was forwarded on to me on the 29th july 2005 from the recipient, Louise Jefferies ; the manager of Allan Jefferies BMW main dealer in Shipley . I did ask for a statement in writing but this is all I have received and so I must come to the conclusion that I am expected to treat this email as the statement I requested..
I am quite insulted in what as been said concerning the Givi panniers fitted to my R1200 GS, as I informed L Jefferies that when I was ordering the bike from her dealership I discussed panniers with the sales person, I said I would prefer fitting Givi for the design would best suit the purpose I was buying the bike for which was for my paragliding activities.. the sales person with no hesitation asked the parts department for a price , I was quoted for the supply and fitting of Givi panniers and at no time was I informed or given information that the boxes were untested and could cause instability problems.. so imagine my surprise when the bike was delivered to A. Jefferies following the accident and I was informed by the head of servicing that BMW believe that the Givi with which I had covered 5500 miles are to blame for suddenly making the bike unstable and it was nothing to do with the bolts which secure the fork bridge which my friend and I found loose after the accident . These were the same bolts I had to pay a BMW dealership in France to torque up after finding them loose after the first wheel wobble some 500 miles and several days prior to the crash. I agree these bolts if torqued correctly should not become loose , it seems either bolts were not torqued correctly at manufacture and again at the dealership in France or that the bolts are actually becoming loose, the latter seems to be the case as several Gs riders have discovered, when they checked their bikes after my concerned friend reported the incident on UKGS’er.com.
I agree with BMW not taking responsibility for non approved accessories or parts I however having been quoted for GIVI by the main dealer and not receiving any information on the stability issue, one would naturally assume that the boxes are approved when the dealership themselves offer to fit them.
As is stated on page 92 of the riders manual I received after purchasing the bike
• “ BMW accessories and BMW approved products can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer”.
It does not say BMW accessories and BMW non approved parts can be obtained from your Authorised BMW motorcycle dealer who will sell you allegedly inappropriate accessories for extra profit, regardless of rider safety.
Suggesting that just because Givi have not been tested by BMW means that they are unstable and are to blame for this accident. is absurd .
It seems remarkable that one can merely look at a photograph of the bikes set up and come to this conclusion . When I look at the square shaped boxes of BMW in comparison to the more rounded GIVI , I would assume ( maybe wrongly ) that the effects of induced and parasitic drag on the seemingly more aerodynamic shape would be less than on the BMW design.
As far as I am aware aerodynamics are ruled by the laws of physics and as such, one would expect these physical effects on the bike to have taken place from the time the panniers were fitted and not thousands of miles later.
After reading the reports from non biased GS riders on the UKGSer .com, I believe there are probably a combination of factors causing this unfortunate incident .
The tyres had only 700 miles from new and so were of good tread depth and as one GS rider stated that the compound make up of the French motor ways could cause an unusual vibration coupled with the lighter front end of the 1200 compared to the 25 kilo heavier 1150 GS , this could cause loosening of these bolts . This in turn could have a very serious effect on the handling as the bike is buffeted during normal motorway conditions ; once the swagger on the wheel begins the momentum cannot be controlled because of the lower fork bridge being loose .
I would like to point out that the test of the bike did not mirror the conditions I myself experienced , the bolts were not loose as I found them after the accident ( practically finger tight ) as I had to tighten them up myself . . the technician did not carry any weight and thus the bike would handle differently.
I don’t know how long I was travelling with the bolts loose before the right conditions were induced so it is difficult to say what test can be set up, may be we should let all GS riders continue to road test them , I am sure more data will roll in.
Why should I the customer, have to chase after BMW to get proper information This is exactly what has happened when I was ordering the bike; no information given to me about panniers. Now again I cannot get an official statement regarding these matters and why do I have to investigate through the internet to get answers to very serious questions about loosened bolts which surely are causing mine and other GS riders bikes to be in a dangerous and un roadworthy condition?
I would be very interested to know if there are any GS riders who have experienced similar lightness and instability and have assumed it was rider error or GS riders who have reported such incidents only to have been given the brush off like I am being given.
I have spent over nine thousand five hundred pounds with BMW and followed all servicing requirements to validate my warranty .
I am appalled that customer care following my purchase has been not merely disinterested , but actively unhelpful , rude and condescending.
*
Finally I would just like to say , I bought the R1200GS because I thought it was one of the safest motorcycles on the road made and backed by the best motorcycle manufacture in the world .How wrong can a guy be? almost dead wrong.
Well I hope that lets you no the state of play up to now
I was just thinking that one of the reasons I bought the bike was that I wouldn’t have the hassle of oiling the chain. Well it is one less thing to worry about.
