► Clutch drag, slip and faults

[SERVDAVE]

I called my local BMW centre and they recommended Venhill Engineering who make up cables to order. Sent the original in the post this morning so should have the extended version later this week.

The riser is great

http://www.roxspeedfx.com/cgi-bin/cart/showitems.cgi?subcat_id=268


But it's all worked out quite expensive. I had to order an extended brake line with the riser and when I fitted it, discovered the clutch line was also too short. Shipping and tax from the US added up!

The version I have allows me to switch from my bent 7/8 bars to Renthal Enduro Fatbars and move the bars forward and back. It brings them much closer to me now so I'm not stretching, my back is straighter and my grip is much lighter. I can also stand on the pegs without having to bend forward.

Cheers. Malc

Looks amazing. Tis always the way thought, things are never as cheap as your first think. Good luck, gonna be worth the extra effort once its on.

Cheers

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Venhill have done a fast turnaround. I posted them my stock cable yesterday so they would have the dimensions, and the new custom one is back tomorrow.

My Renthal Enduro Fat bars arrived today and look brilliant. I was scratching my head about how I would fit my bar end bolts into them and found that a one inch length of garden hose makes a perfect rawlplug! At least that bit was cheap.

I'll post a pic when it's all together.

Roxspeed originally sent me the wrong riser, for 7/8 bars only. Once I told them they had goofed they immediately despatched the 7/8 to Fatbar version and told me to keep the first one. I'm just hoping it arrives in the next couple of days as I'm off on a 3 week tour at the weekend.

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Clutch problem

I have just connected a new clutch cable but as soon as I move from neutral into gear, the back wheel starts turning and the engine dies. I can hear the micro-switch on the clutch lever clicking on and off but the engine dies every time. I have attached some pics of the position showing the clutch disconnected from the cable (top left), clutch in (top right), and clutch out (bottom left). No matter how high I raise the lever at the clutch end, it keeps dying, like the clutch isn't working. Any ideas?

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Ok. I'm officially a k**b head. The bike was on the centre stand but the side stand was down!!!

BUT now I have the opposite problem. I'm getting no drive when I'm in gear, sitting on the bike with the back wheel down, and the cable feels very slack.

My head aches!

 

[Malcolm Leick]

I'm actually getting no forward drive in first, even with the clutch cable disconnected. Very worrying. Hope I haven't buggered the clutch.

 

[Sooty09]

My friend and I both bought an 800gs within weeks of each other.
My clutch is set up correctly with the cable bracket on the engine allowing the adjusting nuts to move about 20mm either way. His cable was set so there was no slack and the clutch was always engaged, eventually this led to clutch slip while accelerating or under power, the adjusting nut was at the end of its travel so no slack could be added without grinding some metal off the mounting bracket.
It was returned to the dealer under warranty and they replaced the cable and also some components within the clutch? There seems to be a batch of cables with too short an inner.

The arm on the engine operates a cam which pulls out the clutch pressure plate. It may be possible to go over centre and jam. Remove the cable and push the arm back to as you see in picture 1 and start again. Lightly push the arm up until you feel pressure. This is the approx position the arm should be with the cable attached. If your cable dose not reach easily it may be too shot. Your photo no1 looks normal, no2 looks like mine with the clutch fully operated. No 3 has the arm moved far too much. I don't think its clutch plate wear as when this occurs you need to add more slack to the cable, not tension it.

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Thanks Sooty. I've wiggled and prodded but no luck. Annoyingly the warranty ran out 2 months ago.

Something similar happened in the middle of a field a few months back. It was like the clutch was engaged all the time. No drive. I got it transported to BMW but they said it was just adjustment on the cable...which seemed weird as it was working fine one moment and not the next. They didn't open the clutch unit at all.

I think you might be right about something being out of place inside but I have tried taking the cable off completely (same as top left pic) but still no drive.

I'll give BMW a call in the morning. Looks like I will be calling out the AA.

 

[Greggers]

Personally I'd whip the clutch cover off to see what's going on.... it might even be a simple fix!

Greg

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Whats the procedure for doing this Greg? Had a quick search and couldn't find a 'how to'. Will I need a new gasket? I'm not a mechanic and don't want to make things worse.

 

[GS Biker]

Sounds like another photo opportunity Greg......Good luck with the fix Malcolm...

 

[Greggers]

I'm on hols at the moment so can't access the manual or my bike, but at a guess and flying by wire I'd ....

remove the cable from the clutch arm, then tip the bike over so the clutch side is upwards - this way you won't have to drain the oil (unless you want to as part of a service programme...). Undo the bolts holding the cover onto the crank-cases - look for any hidden bolts as well just in case there are any tucked away - from there you should be able to wiggle the cover off the crankcases. If you're careful you might be able to salvage the gasket - if it comes off in one piece you can re-use it with a bit of sealant, but replace it if it's torn or you're not happy with its condition. It's unlikely that anything is going to fall out at this stage and I'm assuming that the actuator mechanism will be integral with the cover.
Once it's off you'll be able to see how the mech works - most likely a coarse helical gear or a simple lever cam - and also why it's not actuating the clutch.

I'm back on Saturday night so will be able to have a butchers at the manual on Sunday and will try to post a proper 'how-to' shortly after that ...

 

[Sooty09]

I have looked at the manual and parts fich, the
sketches below are how I think the clutch operating mechanism works.

Looking at the sketch below shows the operating arm over rotated demonstarates how you would lose all clutch activation and drive to the wheels.

Take this as a suggestion only as I have not yet had to take the side covers of the bike.

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Thanks guys. I will attempt to open the patient in the morning. Let's hope they survive the operation.

 

[Greggers]

Just a sketch!?? Fek me, in my book that's CAD artistry .. well, I know it's prolly not for a full time AutoCad user but still ....

Yup - I'd agree with that being the most likely cause of the problem, but if it is, how did the actuating lever rotate so far to allow the notches to mis-align?

G

 

[Malcolm Leick]

I too was amazed and impressed by the sketch and a big thanks for the time taken to produce it Sooty.

In the light of dawn I decided to play safe and get the bike to BMW as I really wouldn't know what I was looking at once the cover was off. Given I was planning to set off for Turkey on Sunday I didn't want to discover I had screwed up halfway though Albania.

I hung around while they removed the cover and the instant prognosis was that the clutch was well and truly cooked. I was somewhat pissed off given that the last time I took the bike in with the same problem it was still under warranty, but they never took a look inside the casing. It still doesn't explain why it should be working okay one minute and then totally knackered the next.

They said they had several other bikes in since my first visit, with the same problem, and each time they sorted it out with cable adjustment. Presumably they never looked inside those bikes either.

They reckoned the relatively short life of the clutch (24.5K) was down to my extravagant off-road activities. I guess they would classify this as unreasonable "wear and tear". (They commented on the dents in exhaust, crash bars etc - so much for the unstoppable tag!). They also said it was really important to make sure there was always some play in the cable, especially when the clutch was hot.

Certainly the first time I went in with this problem the bike had been buried in a quagmire of very sticky Leicestershire mud with some heavy clutch usage to make progress. Probably down to my crap off road technique!

Although I have dropped the gearing on the bike I still have to use the clutch a lot to control low speed progress on difficult sections.

After they told me the bill (£350), they discovered there were no F650/800 clutches in the country?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS! So it will be at least Tuesday, and more likely Thursday before the bike is fixed. My Turkey trot will now start later than planned and be more of a Turkey run!

Thanks again for the advice and support from the experts which is very much appreciated. Has anyone else had to change a clutch before 25K???

 

[Sooty09]

My friends GS800 was in dock at our local dealer for a week waiting for the clutch parts. Its not as if BMW have a massive range of current bikes. They have a few filters etc but a week for a clutch case gasket is a bit much.
Motorworks do a clutch kit of plates and springs for £167.00 and have the gasket for £13.10.
Sorry to hear you are losing a bit of your holiday here in the UK but it could have been a major problem in the middle of Turkey. ( I bet this is no consolation to you)
I think I will add clutches to the list of BMWs design incapabilities. Its getting longer.

 

[Malcolm Leick]

Damn! I should have thought of Motoworks. I'll check with BM tomorrow to see what their ETA is.

 

[CharlieK]

10M kms and two new clutches!

I bought a new F800GS in July '09.

When it had approx 8M kms, the clutch simply gave out. As of 4000 RPMs the engine would just rev up, all the way to red, with almost no power getting to the wheel. I took it to the BMW dealer and they replaced it under warranty saying "some oil had reached the clutch". Strange... but OK.

Issue was... only ONE MONTH and 1M kms afterwards, the new clutch gave in - again!

Took it to the same dealer, and according to them, it's my fault for not adjusting the clutch cable, the clutch was fried. The lever needs to have approx 4mms of play and this is supposedly in the manual - however haven't found it written there yet. Nonetheless they replaced the clutch (again).

I remember that when I had bought the bike, I had complained on the clutch "catching" to high on the lever (vs. my Honda Transalp) - and the answer of the BMW "experts" was - it's just made like that, no problem. Two clutchs afterwards, and their answer of "it's your fault", I no longer trust them

Now I've done another 1M kms, and no issue (yet), however I'm being extra careful with the clutch play.

Anybody have any feedback / similar experience? (ONE MONTH!)

Cheers!

 

[GS Ted]

Hi, great pics of the clutch assembly . Does anyone know the best way to set up the tension of the clutch cable?? My clutch was engaging at about 85-90% of the lever movement.....pretty much at the end of the lever travel. I adjusted the cable at the clutch cover so the clutch engaged about halfway through the clutch lever travel. My worries are that at this setting, when the bike is on the centre stand in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in, the back wheel rotates slowly. I guess the clutch is dragging?? so what i did was to keep adjusting the cable little by little until the back wheel didn't move when on the centre stand, in gear with the clutch in. The biting point was then back to 85-90% of the lever travel. There doesnt seem to be much tollerance in the clutch cable adjustment and my worry is that i will have problems when everything gets upto working temp or the clutch is engaging but not fully, & i guess i have to live with were the clutch lever biting point is. Any thoughts on best way to adjust & set up the clutch cable properly would be appreciated.
thanks.

 

[Greggers]

Ted ...

It will probably always do that, there's going to be a degree of drag created by the oil between the plates.

G