07 1200adv gearbox failure

[a_j_palmer]

Hi there, need some advice on this one if anyone can help.
Out riding yestarday and noticed when in traffic on overrun in 2nd-3rd gears very harsh feeling through the footpegs & what sounded like a very metalic noise. gears changed no problem.
Arrived home & when slowing down the noisewas present again. with the bike stationary & in neutral with the clutch out, a very worring noise is coming from the gearbox, pull the clutch in & the noise goes away.check the oil level & thats ok, me thinks ive got a bearing failing in the gearbox the big question is has anyone suffered the same problem, & has anyone had the chance to rebuild the box, are the any special tools needed?
bike is a 07 1200 adv with 18000mls.
Thanks Tony..

 

[Pukmeister]

It could well be a failing bearing in the gearbox. If it does it in neutral with the driveshaft stopped from turning then it is most likely an input shaft bearing. Could be the bearings on the 2nd/3rd pinions ??

A strip and rebuild routine is in the Haynes manual and BMW Reprom DVD.
You would need accurate measuring tools, bearing pullers etc to strip and rebuild yourself.

If not confident about stripping and repairing, you could always pull the gearbox out yourself and take it by car to a BMW dealer for repair, probably saves a lot on labour if they have it ready on the bench to strip and rebuild.

My old 2004 1200 gearbox used to rattle like a pig in neutral, but it always shifted cogs smoothly and got better when I changed the oil for fresh stuff (EP75W90).

Have you checked the gearbox oil level, drained the oil and looked for swarf ? Tried refilling with new oil ??

A gearbox lock-up whilst riding is about as bad as it gets because the bike could skid uncontrollably. If you are that worried, it may be best to get it sorted before putting too many more miles on it. Obviously I can't hear or feel what you are experiencing with the bike when riding.

 

[DrFarkoff]

A friend of mine bought a gearbox off here and immediately after we had installed it in his bike it whirred and groaned until the clutch was pulled in we added some additive and it really didn't help Noisy Bar-steward got worse and worse so 400 miles enough was enough and ....

We got an 80,000miler second hander off e bay for his and despite the seller off here saying his was better and how could you trust the 80,00 miles box etc etc

It was as sweet as a nut Changes all smooth up and down the box and I "think" it's the bearing at the back of the input shaft that is buggered BUT I'm gonna change them all and the seals

 

[skywalker]

Might be worth looking for a second hand box as it sounds like the input shaft has gone. From what you've described it sounds like that.
Input shaft is now sold as a complete unit. Have had a couple of boxes where the plate (has 4 lugs on it) has cracked across the torsional damper unit on the input shaft leading to loud noise at idle & goes away slightly when the clutch is pulled . The damper loses its spring tension

 

[hoggey]

Gearbox failure

Hi Tony,
Give me a phone on 07704180619 may be able to help you out. Can't PM you.

 

[a_j_palmer]

Ive got an update on my gearbox noise, i drained the oil, which was very metailc, i drained out aprox 800ml so the level wasnt cause for concern. proceeded to strip the bike down. this evening i removed the rear frame, removed the gearbox & stripped it.. the noise was coming from a broken bearing cadge on the 1st motion shaft.
The rest of the gears, bearings & selectors are perfect,as is the shaft itself, the spring tension on the damper is perfect,which you would expect from a 18000ml box.
Reading about other people who are having problems with seal failure then clutch slip, it would look very likely that the failure of the bearing ends in seal failure.
As what i always thought was a quality bike i expected to see skf, snr or timken bearings fitted to the shafts, Instead i find made in poland... makes a change from made in china i suppose..
Thanks for advice given, if anyone has a similar noise, dont ignor it, new oil wont help nor will any aditives.
Thanks again.. Tony

 

[patzx12]

Ive got an update on my gearbox noise, i drained the oil, which was very metailc, i drained out aprox 800ml so the level wasnt cause for concern. proceeded to strip the bike down. this evening i removed the rear frame, removed the gearbox & stripped it.. the noise was coming from a broken bearing cadge on the 1st motion shaft.
The rest of the gears, bearings & selectors are perfect,as is the shaft itself, the spring tension on the damper is perfect,which you would expect from a 18000ml box.
Reading about other people who are having problems with seal failure then clutch slip, it would look very likely that the failure of the bearing ends in seal failure.
As what i always thought was a quality bike i expected to see skf, snr or timken bearings fitted to the shafts, Instead i find made in poland... makes a change from made in china i suppose..
Thanks for advice given, if anyone has a similar noise, dont ignor it, new oil wont help nor will any aditives.
Thanks again.. Tony

You are a handy man.

 

[jogo]

Why don't you approach BMW? A gearbox should not at all fail. I would talk to them, may be they exchange it under "Goodwill". I think its not unreasonable to expect them in such case to cover something, I would definitively try!
If you can get them to cover material cost, you could just put the old one on their desk and get a new?
I would keep the oil that you drained out for the time being so that you can offer them to investigate it (they won't do it but it would demonstrate to them that you have nothing to hide).

Anyway, good luck with the situation.

 

[a_j_palmer]

I've spoken to BMW this morning, as the bike only had the 1st & 6000ml service done by them no claim will be entertained, the guy stated the failure was probably due to the incorrect oil being used.. This made me smile, the bearings are sealed so they dont run i'n the transmission oil.! Any amount of oil changes would have no effect on bearing life due to seal for life bearings. Im not prepared to get onto a row with BMW, I want my bike back on the road, the old saying if you want a job done comes to mind.I'm going to replace all the bearings i'n the box with better quality bearings. I've tried to upload photos,But for some reason I'm struggling !!

 

[DrFarkoff]

I think it was my self and Rob Farmer were discussing bearings etc and I "think" it was that Poland had/has a very good steel industry and that they had made all
the bearings and valves for the airheads

It was only in the last 7 or 8 years they changed to mass production from China, Notice how the failure rate on components has escalated Is it due to poor quality control? I think it's down to someone ordering at a price hence quality suffers

I think that was also one of the reasons that Hitler invaded to provide engineering resources for his war machine

 

[beermonster]

Thanks for reporting back, would be interested in seeing the photo's if you can post them.

Cheers

Simon

 

[jogo]

Just to answer on your dealers point:

Have you changed the oil yourselv?
In that case have you oil according to spec?
In that case put it on their table and ask them to send it for analysis if they don't trust you.

If you have not changed the oil ask the dealer if he is kidding.

Again, a gearbox is not supposed to fail and especially not at that low milage of your bike.

I don't really see what you mean by setting in better bearings. There are tens of thousands of these gearboxes out there, most of which with higher milage than yours, some of those with very high milage and failures seem to be very rare. That seems to indicate to me that there is nothing wrong with the bearings in there in general.

Of course its your call, but I would definitely not let them get away with that. If the dealer does not help you, approach annother one or talk to the importer.

Anyway, good luck and it would be interesting to see you pics. Few have done such repair so far as it seems.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

You sure the bearings are sealed and not just shielded? Either way unlikely for oil to be the problem.

 

[Rasher]

I think that was also one of the reasons that Hitler invaded to provide engineering resources for his war machine

Winning that war was a real curse, if it went the other way the 1200GS would be relaible and the trains would run on time

 

[Pukmeister]

In all honesty I'm glad to hear that only one bearing has a problem. If it was more than one I would be concerned, but it doesn't take much to cause damage to a single bearing eg foreign body, brinnel spot on a track etc and have just one bearing within a machine break down.

Could be simply due to poor hygiene during assembly for example. Do BMW assemble their own gearboxes, or do they get them assembled by suppliers for fitting at the assembly lines ??

Hopefully a replacement bearing (either OEM or compatible item from suppliers/specialists) will have it running again sweetly in no time.

Thanks for the heads up and good luck with the rebuild.

 

[a_j_palmer]

There`s some good views coming through on this thread, i changed the oil myself at 12k used castrol syntrax as recomended, im a 27yr student to the motor trade(on cars) so ive just about grasped the needed skills to change my on oil
The breaings look to me as tho there seald but they could be protective masks, the bearing that has failed is still in tact, its the roller cage that has failed allowing the balls to run freely, hence the noise.
In my opinion the failure is down to bad luck & possibly indiferent quality bearings.
I havnt had time to sorce parts yet but i`ll keep you posted on how it goes on rebuild & what make of bearings are avalible.
...Did someone mention the war..
how do i upload pictures on here ?

 

[patzx12]

When my 05 gearbox broke the bearings were perfect if fact one of them exited the casing along with the layshaft,

 

[wilbjr21]

Don't you need to be a subscriber to post pictures and send and receive PMs ?

 

[Rasher]

how do i upload pictures on here ?

I just use a photobucket account - free and easy to use and can be uploaded to forums, shared with friends etc.

Don't forget to re-size them first or they take forever to load and are too big for forum pages, I use FastStone Resizer which is also free and can re-size multiple pictures in one go.

 

[Pukmeister]

If the bearing cage keeping the rollers/balls at equal distance collapses, you have two problems:

Firstly the rolling elements or balls can all roll together, leaving a huge clearance on the opposite side of the shaft for it to (unsupportedly) move into.

Secondly the pieces of cage get ground into the bearing tracks, causing further failure of the rollers/balls and track surfaces (messy).

I had a nasty experience once with a Yamaha rear wheel that sometimes felt loose due to the cage collapsing in the cush drive housing bearing, allowing the rear wheel to move on its spindle. Funnily enough Yamaha fitted an upgraded bearing when I replaced it.