1100 double sealing gearbox input shaft?

[Tsiklonaut]

Just a stupid question for tech gurus - is it pointless to double-seal the gearbox input shaft?

Last time I replaced it I remember there was enough depth to put 2 seals inside with a little gap. Crankshaft's output has 2 radial seals on later 1100s to decrease clutch's "contamination" and is a hell lot better design than the older 1100 that had only 1 seal and people had a lot of problems so I wonder if putting 2 seals for the gearboxes input shaft is a similarly good idea or not? I.e. if the internal one fails, outer will go on for some time.

Mine leaks like hell now (thank God I have Siebenrock's oil-proof clutch, otherwise I'd already be stranded for days in the middle of Mauritania with an unrideably slipping clutch ). Yes, it's done around 100 000 miles since I put the new seal, but it's PITA work and with no guarantees, so I wonder if double sealing would decrease the unlucky odds.

Also does anyone know if some common cars have similar measurement shaft seals? I need to find a replacement seal here in Nouakchott (ordering something from Europe will be very expensive)

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

I don't have the specific knowledge of your current problem but I'd put two seals in there if the space was available and it did not restrict your clutch's movement.
On the other hand, you only have a few or more thousand miles to go and if you can get only one seal if would hopefully last the remainder of your journey.

Hopefully someone with an 1100 will come forward soon and give you with the seal's dimensions and provide you with a solution.

Good Luck to both of you.

 

[Vern]

Hi Both,

I'm sure I remember hearing about this before, and it seemed to work, but you had to polish the shaft before you fitted it, and if the inner seal went, it took the outer seal out shortly afterwards.

It might be worth a stab even if it only gives you a couple of thousand extra miles.

How is the new clutch bedding in?

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

How about making a small hole in the bottom (6 O'clock) position on the rubber boot to let leaking oil escape rather than go down the pushrod tube ?

It would make you aware of a leak before it got onto clutch and give time to fix it at some later point.

After replacing my clutch, rebuilding box, and fitting new seals its a mod I have down to my own 1100

 

[flatdog]

Surely the 2nd seal would fail shortly after fitment, due to lack of shaft lubrication as the first seal keeps the oil away from the contact surface further down the shaft.
However, the 2nd seal would continue to work as a dust shield and potentially help prolong the 1st seals life.

 

[MattW]

Surely the 2nd seal would fail shortly after fitment, due to lack of shaft lubrication as the first seal keeps the oil away from the contact surface further down the shaft.
However, the 2nd seal would continue to work as a dust shield and potentially help prolong the 1st seals life.

That's what I'd have thought too

 

[Steptoe]

How about making a small hole in the bottom (6 O'clock) position on the rubber boot to let leaking oil escape rather than go down the pushrod tube ?

It would make you aware of a leak before it got onto clutch and give time to fix it at some later point.

Because it's his gearox input shaft seal that is leaking.

 

[MattW]

Been thinking - how about filling the interspace between the seals with grease? (although how you'd do it without pressurising the whole affair, I've no idea...)

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

How about making a small hole in the bottom (6 O'clock) position on the rubber boot to let leaking oil escape rather than go down the pushrod tube ?

It would make you aware of a leak before it got onto clutch and give time to fix it at some later point.

After replacing my clutch, rebuilding box, and fitting new seals its a mod I have down to my own 1100

Because it's his gearox input shaft seal that is leaking.

,
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[Tsiklonaut]

Full stop!

In fact - this MAY be the other seal. Or now it's even probable.

There was just TOO much oil spilled everywhere on the gearbox and clutch room that it was hard to judge (a massive leak!) and I though only input shaft's seal could produce that much oil since it's hard to push through the rod.

But now I put the gearbox upside down, so the rear is down and I see little oil dripping and it just keeps coming.

Feck me, if that's the case it's the worst seal possible - need to take all the gearbox apart to replace it!

Here in Nouakchott, desert heat, sand flying around everywhere, with very limited tools I carry, no Loctite products available to seal the gearbox and lock the swingarm bolts - we must be really "lucky" bastids to have it happening here!

 

[flatdog]

In fact - this MAY be the other seal. Or now it's even probable.

There was just TOO much oil spilled everywhere on the gearbox and clutch room that it was hard to judge (a massive leak!) and I though only input shaft's seal could produce that much oil since it's hard to push through the rod.

But now I put the gearbox upside down, so the rear is down and I see little oil dripping and it just keeps coming.

Feck me, if that's the case it's the worst seal possible - need to take all the gearbox apart to replace it!

Here in Nouakchott, desert heat, sand flying around everywhere, with very limited tools I carry, no Loctite products available to seal the gearbox and lock the swingarm bolts - we must be really "lucky" bastids to have it happening here!

Sorry to hear it. What are the chances of sourcing a replacement box instead.

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

If it is the rear seal, the oil loss wont be massive, I would,nt strip the box on the road, make a hole in the boot for the oil to escape and keep an eye on gearbox oil level

 

[MattW]

If it is the rear seal, the oil loss wont be massive, I would,nt strip the box on the road, make a hole in the boot for the oil to escape and keep an eye on gearbox oil level

I think Tsiklonaut means it's the clutch pushrod seal not the output shaft seal? The output shaft seal wouldn't leak oil into the bellohousing and clutch.

As he says as far as I know a bit of a nightmare to replace (although I've never been inside my 1100's gearbox).

The only person I can think of who might have ideas about this is Steptoe - hopefully he'll notice this thread.

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

I think Tsiklonaut means it's the clutch pushrod seal not the output shaft seal? The output shaft seal wouldn't leak oil into the bellohousing and clutch.

As he says as far as I know a bit of a nightmare to replace (although I've never been inside my 1100's gearbox).

The only person I can think of who might have ideas about this is Steptoe - hopefully he'll notice this thread.

Yes, I'm talking about the small gearbox seal located in where the cable clutch operating mechanisiam locates on the rear of the gearbox (The rear input shaft seal)
It leaks the gearbox oil into the pushrod tunnel, which then leaks along the clutch pushrod into the clutch housing, If you make a small hole in the boot that covers the pushrod mechanisam enough oil should escape to keep the clutch plate free off oil, just keep an eye on the gearbox oil level!

 

[MattW]

Yes, I'm talking about the small gearbox seal located in where the clutch slave cylinder locates on the rear of the gearbox (The rear input shaft seal)
It leaks the gearbox oil into the slave cylinder/gearbox aperture, which then leaks along the clutch pushrod into the clutch housing, If you make a small hole in the boot that covers the pushrod mechanisam enough oil should escape to keep the clutch plate free off oil, just keep an eye on the gearbox oil level!

He has an 1100 - cable operated clutch - no slave cylinder / boot.

 

[(RIP) Mark H]

He has an 1100 - cable operated clutch - no slave cylinder / boot.

See edit and there is a boot! well there is on my 1100 its number 5 in the image.

 

[jaak]

Tere Margus,

probably your best option is to write or call directly to Steptoe.
Hopefully the gearbox doesn't have to come apart.

Milline tihend see täpsemalt lekib?

 

[Tsiklonaut]

The leak is massive - I mean it's almost dripping oil, not just random drops - they probably won't let us to the ferry back to Europe dirty like this

It's the seal no. 4 leaking so you need to open the box to replace it. I've done the gearbox before so it's not a problem for me to do it, it's just the nonexistant conditions here in Nouakchott hotel's backyard and I can't find Loctite sealant - although it's a capital city it's an African capital city - just a big dirty third-world style overgrown village with very little available. Well, suppose it's called an adventure

 

[ducatiparts.110mb]

I've done 3 and 4 on an 1150 without stripping the box. You need a sharp screwdriver and a strong wrist and you can pull them both out. Much quicker and easier than pulling the box apart.
Mark

 

[Pekkavee]

I've done 3 and 4 on an 1150 without stripping the box. You need a sharp screwdriver and a strong wrist and you can pull them both out. Much quicker and easier than pulling the box apart.
Mark

You can also use two self tapping screws and some fastening band or steel wire or something
Fastening band
and a hammer or something.

Pekka