1150 help needed: fuel pump? Short?

[gregneedham]

Thanks so much for the quick reply. I think that may be it, but I honestly don't know what is entailed in "checking the ignition loom." I have heard that before and don't know what that means.

I have wiggled the wires coming out the ignition. I have looked at all the wires as best I can. I have pulled the tank and looked for bare wires. I have taped wire groups up where it looked like they needed it....

Do you mean have the wiring checked out by someone who can run continuity tests, etc.? I can't duplicate any problems with the bike running by wiggling wires, which in the world of wiring and electrics is about the limit of my skill level.

 

[gregneedham]

Going back through the advice on this thread and another on ADV:

1. check vent lines mix up - done
2. Fuel Filter - installed new one
3. Pressure Regulator - don't know about this
4. Elec. connector at right rear of tank - checked, cleaned
5. Fuel lines pinched or cracked - checked
6. Check plug wires - replaced with new
7. Coil resistance - haven't checked
8. Oxygen sensor - haven't checked
9. Misc. wiring - checked what I can see, no bare wires
10. Ignition wiring loom - checked as best I could, but haven't taken it apart...
11. Hall Sensor - new one installed
12. Fuel pump relay - pulled and re-seated. Might be bad?
13. Fuel pump - seems okay, but don't have any experience with a failing one...

So, I am left with:

Misc. wiring that may be bad, coil that may be bad, oxygen sensor that may be bad, pressure regulator that may be bad, fuel relay that may be bad, ignition wiring loom that may be bad.

When checking for bad wiring, is it all visual or do you need to check continuity or resistance? Am I just looking for obviously bad wired or is it more involved than that? Specifically the ignition loom? What is the best way to check that. I can wiggle it and nothing happens when the bike is running.

Sorry for all the questions, but short of taking the bike 140 mile or so north to a dealer with symptoms that may or may not appear when i get it there, I have to do this all myself.

Greg

 

[DollyRocket]

Intermittant faults are the hardest to diagnose as you are never totally sure you have fixed it. I am more electronics savvy rather than mechanical so I would check the fuel pump relay is operating as it should. You could try opening the relay case (assuming it isn't glued up) and have a look to see if the contacts are corroded (internally). If it is glued up then perhaps see if you can get a replacement or swap it over for another of the same type that may be in the fuse box to see if something else gives up?

If you are comfortable using a multimeter I would measure a resistance (with the bike off and battery disconnected) from the relay to the ground terminal (check the circuit diagram in the haynes manual) see if the resistance changes as you move the handlebars around or rock the bike about? it may show up a loom problem?

If you say it dies at approximately the same place each time - are you going up or down a hill at this point? Do you have the same amount of fuel in the tank each time?

 

[gregneedham]

Okay, first thanks again for all the help. I think I am on the right track from all the advice here.

Problem is getting narrowed down. I do have some wiring issues, but I think the main problem is looking like a bad sensor somewhere.

When starting from engine cold (80 degree air temp), the bike now dies like clockwork every morning at almost the exact same place. If I vary my route, it dies within minutes of the exact same time everyday. I think a sensor is failing at just the right heat point when starting from cold. Everything else is random and maybe related, but this problem is too exact to be a short.

Today I left for work and varied my route by about 6 blocks. The bike died about 6 blocks short of where it usually dies. That is six times in the exact same spot.

I can't replicate the problem for the rest of the day. Leaving work I ride home, take a detour, start and stop the bike, etc. and it doesn't quit on me. Basically always restarts.

So, can someone with experience tell me what sensors would fail from temperture and shut down the fuel system? Someone has suggested the 02 sensor, but I have to research and find out where that is and how to disconnect it for a test run.

A list of what I can check would be great...thanks again.

 

[MattW]

The Hall sensor can stop the fuel pump.

However, I don't know if it can fail in the type of repeatable temperature dependent manner you describe - it's usually the wiring to the sensor plate which fails due to the insulation going brittle with heat.

 

[gregneedham]

Thanks for the reply. I had a new Hall Sensor installed a month ago. Hopefully that is not the problem.

 

[Stewart H]

Have you nobbled your sidestand switch yet ? my bike was stopping randomly, just like I was flipping the killswitch, I could ride for miles, then it might just stop. worth shorting at the connector just to rule it out

Stewart

 

[gregneedham]

No, I haven't. I might do that just to rule it out, like you said, but it seems to function perfectly and doesn't account for the startling accuracy of the bike dying every morning at exactly the same spot.

Thanks for the suggestion and the help.

 

[DollyRocket]

If it is thermal, maybe it would be worth checking the area above the engine block. Yr2000 bikes are single spark only i think, so there should be standard coils rather than pencil coil packs (which may be affected by temperature).

If it was me and in the absence of a Steptoe answer (probably along in a moment though), go for a ride to get the engine warm but head home before it packs up so you can reproduce the problem at home in the comfort of your driveway.

Look for the obvious electrical things - tap the relays to see if they are marginal as the bike warms up, likewise fuses. In general electronics it is the connectors that are the weakest components in any system, try plugging / unplugging, checking for corrosion that maybe making one marginal, Not sure if coils are prone to the same issues?

 

[The smudger]

Hi Greg. I read this with some interest, i do sympathize with you, it must be frustrating!

The problem is quite 'random' but you seem to have narrowed it down. In my humble opinion it's pretty unlikely to be the oxygen sensor. I would say it's almost definately a wiring issue you have here. The '6 block' thing is im sure a 'heat soak' related thing, i.e. the suspected break/connection thing occurs around a certain temperature.

What would be nice is if you could work out if it's fuel or spark related. I might be inclined to carry a tin of 'Carb Cleaner' with me so that if/when it fails to start, a short squirt up the air intake would eliminate one or the other, i.e. if it tries to start on doing this, the spark plugs must be firing, so it's fuel related etc..

Hope this helps!!

Steve.

 

[beermonster]

+1, mines a 01 1150 GS 123,000 miler.

Having similiar problems, started in France when switching on the headlamps with my dash lighting up after riding through a thunderstorm. All the indicator lights came on, was not a show stopper and resolved it'self so put that down to damp in the switch gear.

However a week later it cut out but re-started before I could pull in the clutch again carried on as was still in France. Two weeks and some 2000 miles later it cut out in the UK after getting off the ferry. Started again and got home. Rode it around for about a week, cut out again but would not re-start. Recovered home and still would not start, pulled a plug and was getting a nice juicy spark but the plug was bone dry, pump was running ok.

Went to start to work on last night and the bugger fired! So far have eliminated a fuel blockage, looking at the pipes, filter, injectors and QD's no probs there so oh noes it is electrical

So far checked and cleaned all the connector blocks which were fine, and the fuses's and relays were seated ok.

Considered cut off switch's and hall sensor but was under the impression they would not cut the fuel? Can they?

Anyways going to have another prod tonight as my christmas tree dash has returned might be co-incidence but may be not. I replaced the ignition swithch sub harness was replaced in March so although I would not expect this to be knackered I will swap with a known good un.

Let me know how you go with yours and I will do the same, can be a right PIA but hopefully get there in the end.



Simon

 

[davegs]

Intermittent fault

Check the short length of wiring harness between thwe ign sweitch and thwe main loom, this goes around the head stock and is a regular problem. BMs sell a new bit of harness that just plugs in both ends to ign switch and loom, also check WIRING to hall sensors. This could have been disturbed when new sensor fitted.
Dave GS

 

[D6]

oxy sensor? u mean the lambda, ?
disconnect it, and try,
i havnt had one on mine for over 2 years(1150)

 

[gregneedham]

New symptoms...help...

Okay, I need some final (i hope) opinions. I am hoping that this morning's symptoms will give the final clue as to the problem.

Now the entire electric system shuts down when trying to start the bike.

If you have time, here is all the details on ADVrider: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481533&page=2

This morning, at the usual time the bike dies, the engine stalled momentarily, but caught again and kept going. First time that has happened.

At 6 miles into my trip, the bike died. Stopped to restart, first try wouldn't start, second try, dash lights all go off. Turning key on and off made no difference. This is a brand new symptom.

Pushed bike out of the road and when I turned the key the dash lights came on. Tried to start the bike and after pushing the starter button, engine turned over, then everything died. Dash lights, everything.

Waited a minute and tried key again. Dash lights on. Tried starter, bike started for a moment, then everything shut off. Engine, dash lights etc. Turning the key off and on brought the dash lights back on. Attempt to start shut everything off again.

Bike is cooling down on the side of the road as I write this. Maybe it will start, maybe not.

Does this point any more specifically to a problem?

Would a bad coil cause the intermittent shut down, and possibly progress to total shut down?

Would a bad coil cause the dash lights to go completely off?

Would a bad Hall sensor cause these problems? I just had a new on installed, but I suppose it is not out of the question that it is a bad one.

What would cause the engine to run for a few seconds, then all the electrics shut down, like is newly happening this morning?


Amazing help from everyone. Thank you so much.

 

[Stewart H]

I still fancy a broken wire inside the loom from the switch to under the tank, you will probably need to cut the sheath off to find the break.
Stewart

 

[gregneedham]

Thanks Stewart, one of the first things I will be checking tomorrow.

 

[Stewart H]

Thanks Stewart, one of the first things I will be checking tomorrow.

There are pictures somewhere on this forum of broken wires, looks simple enough to splice if you can find the break, good luck

Stewart

 

[The smudger]

This might sound really stupid but is the Battery/connections all OK?

I've seen it before!!!

 

[DollyRocket]

Have you got a multimeter? Measure the battery voltage when you try to start the engine - Do the volts drop off completely? If so it points towards a knackered battery (whether it is the true cause or just a final symptom - perhaps the alternator is on the way out?)

Mike

 

[beermonster]

Greg

As well as checking the wiring from the ignition switch to the connector under the tank (It's the Orange connector) I take the opportunity to clean all the connectors under the tank.

My Dash was playing up, as well as the bike just dying on me, I cleaned the connectors and solved the first problem. However will have to see whether the second issue is solved.

By the way a faulty hall sensor or coil would not shut down all the electrics, your dash lights would still work.


Regards

Simon