1200 GS Camhead or Hexhead

[GSCruzer]

Hello GSers,

I've wandered over from the 800GS forum (I have a 2013 F800 GS Adv) because I'm seriously considering adding a R1200 GS to the stable. And I need your advice between getting a Camhead or Hexhead.

I'm keen on the Camhead because it's relatively light and the last of the air-cooled boxer twins and, IN THEORY, the last of the line tends to be the most sorted...but is it really? I seek your input on the reliability and what are the issues to look out for?

(Sorry for posting on the Hexhead forum, I didn't see a Camhead forum, so thought this was the next most relevant space)

Or did BMW stuff the Camhead with overly complicated tech (I'm looking at you ESA) in which case the best 'last of the air-cooled line' might be a 2009/10 Hexhead?

My type of riding is 20% highway, 50% backroads, and the rest is a mix of graded dirt roads, no pillion. So not interested in top end performance, but comfort, balance, torque and reliability.

I've just eaten my 60th birthday cake and whichever GS I go with has to last 10 more birthday cakes with minimal mechanical 'surprises'!

Appreciate your thoughts....thanks.

 

[Mistacat]

Having had both 2009 and 2012 TC ( Twin cam) there is very little between them performance wise.
Positives for the TC 2012 the final drive is a better design. Valve lash seems to hold better 214K and still not had to shim, but it is easier to adjust on the pre 2010 bikes.
Positives for the 2009 and earlier you can fit iridium spark plugs which will last 50k miles. Twin cam plugs are expensive with no alternatives and only last 12K miles.
I would look more for condition on any Hexhead rather than TC or not.

 

[Mistacat]

Should have read 114 K miles on the valve adjustment, fat fingers early in the morning.
The later final drive with the output bearing in the oil bath will fit the earlier 2009 bike.
Earlier final drive is OK as long as it has not been attacked with a pressure washer.
My 2012 bike was only 1 year old when I ate my 60th Birthday cake.

 

[Joepi5]

The later final drive with the output bearing in the oil bath will fit the earlier 2009 bike.

To add to that, even a R9T final drive (up to 2020) is a straight bolt on swap. It even has the holes to mount the low fender + it has the same drive ratio. I recently got one because my og (non vented) FD was not that great anymore.

 

[botus]

To add to that, even a R9T final drive (up to 2020) is a straight bolt on swap. It even has the holes to mount the low fender + it has the same drive ratio. I recently got one because my og (non vented) FD was not that great anymore.

the scrambler edition has the extra bracket - most R9Ts don't get the GS nappy guard and so don't get the extra bit you need

they went to at least 2022 and as you say bolt straight on

and it does have a shorter ratio final drive - but its almost unnoticeable - I was worried when I put it on, but on first ride never remembered to check - turns out its so fractionally different I never noticed - the only thing is you abuse the clutch a tiny smidgen less pulling away, other than that you'll not notice its better

 

[Joepi5]

the scrambler edition has the extra bracket - most R9Ts don't get the GS nappy guard and so don't get the extra bit you need

they went to at least 2022 and as you say bolt straight on

and it does have a shorter ratio final drive - but its almost unnoticeable - I was worried when I put it on, but on first ride never remembered to check - turns out its so fractionally different I never noticed - the only thing is you abuse the clutch a tiny smidgen less pulling away, other than that you'll not notice its better

The standard R9T also has the 2.91 ratio + the holes for the bracket. If you search the part number and cross reference that its the same partnumber as the K25.

Only downside is it's black on my silver swing arm, but I don't mind

 

[botus]

the post about the early rear bevel being inferior, which is the one you originally replied to - has a longer FD ratio

2007 ring gear 31 - pinion 11 = 2.818:1
2010 ring gear 32 - pinion 11 = 2.909:1

 

[Joepi5]

the post about the early rear bevel being inferior, which is the one you originally replied to - has a longer FD ratio

2007 ring gear 31 - pinion 11 = 2.818:1
2010 ring gear 32 - pinion 11 = 2.909:1

Those older (pre 01/2008) FD's also use a different drive shaft, so they are not interchangeable. Pre 01/2008 has 20 tooth spline shafts, after 01/2008 has 22 tooth spline shafts.
That is the gearbox output shaft as well as the finaldrive input shaft.

But for retrofitting purposes BMW does offer a later style vented Final drive with the older style (20 tooth) spline shaft and drive ratio.

 

[botus]

Those older (pre 01/2008) FD's also use a different drive shaft, so they are not interchangeable. Pre 01/2008 has 20 tooth spline shafts, after 01/2008 has 22 tooth spline shafts.
That is the gearbox output shaft as well as the finaldrive input shaft.

But for retrofitting purposes BMW does offer a later style vented Final drive with the older style (20 tooth) spline shaft and drive ratio.

tell that to my june 2007 bike - it bolted straight on - if you read the parts fiche, magically they list either or rear bevel, which its turns out meant UK mkt got the old junk whilst no doubt germany and their mates got the better one

I'm running a 2021 scrambler rear bevel

 

[GSCruzer]

Many thanks for the very useful real world comparison! The subsequent rear drive discussion was useful as well....

Having had both 2009 and 2012 TC ( Twin cam) there is very little between them performance wise.
Positives for the TC 2012 the final drive is a better design. Valve lash seems to hold better 214K and still not had to shim, but it is easier to adjust on the pre 2010 bikes.
Positives for the 2009 and earlier you can fit iridium spark plugs which will last 50k miles. Twin cam plugs are expensive with no alternatives and only last 12K miles.
I would look more for condition on any Hexhead rather than TC or not.

 

[Slipperyeel]

I think Mistercat summed it up well.
At this late stage in their life, go for the best condition version you can find - but by now, low mileage is not really an advantage - subframes can rot, as can the centre stand etc.

 

[Santa-2512]

Ive had all three varients

Hexhead

LC/TC

TC

The Hexhead, if your prepared to spend some money on fixing the big items (if they fail) will keep going for years & miles

Likewise the TC (twincam) , Think of it as a sorted hexhead MY11/12 is the sweet spot to aim for will just keep running and running


The LC/TC (liquid cooled twincam) was probably the worst bike i owned , it spent more time in the dealership being fixed, than i rode it

That said others have seen 100k miles on them

The Hexhead & TC can be maintained by most people with a general knowledge of bike maintenance

The LC , needs a diagnostic machine to do just about anything other than change the oil , just about every analogue system is now digital so to speak

 

[SnowMec]

When I decided to buy an R1200GS(A) K25, I only wanted to buy a twin-cam.
A hex-head is exactly as strong at lower revs, but when you reach the highest engine speeds, there is a difference.
A twin-cam is very lively when you push it and drive it towards the rev limit and it is almost like having two engines in the same bike.
One that works well in everyday life and one you can ride as a sports bike.

 

[landmarkjohn]

I have 08 Hexhead and rode TC once. I didn't like how smooth TC was in comparison, I prefer the more manly grrrrrrr of my single cam bike.

That said, I would never be caning the bike in the upper rev range, more of a plodder.

 

[botus]

I have 08 Hexhead and rode TC once. I didn't like how smooth TC was in comparison, I prefer the more manly grrrrrrr of my single cam bike.

That said, I would never be caning the bike in the upper rev range, more of a plodder.

yes exactly - I have both - hate every second I ride the TC its much more like a washing machine - bland mundane and boring

 

[Gee-]

Bought my 08 Hexhead, for the simple reason, it was vastly slower than my GTR 1400, that was like a rocket if I burped the throttle too far, from 165 bhp down to 110 bhp, there is still plenty horses too keep up with most modern bikes on the road.

Main thing I like about my Hexhead, Non-Abs, Non-Esa, with ample brakes and manual adjustable suspension, it's still a bike too enjoy, with less Phaff., when it comes to maintenance.

I would only sell it for something I could not live without...don't know what that is yet.

 

[Slipperyeel]

yes exactly - I have both - hate every second I ride the TC its much more like a washing machine - bland mundane and boring

Bland is not a word of use to describe my own TC. Jeckle & Hyde maybe since it can ponder around if you want but also get a little wild if you want (above 6.5k). I'm no speed merchant, but it can get definitely keep up with most, if you want

 

[MotoRevive]

Twin cam.

The motor is much smoother. And it is more powerful once you open it up.

The Twin cam is also the 'sorted' model. Any issues they were prepared to iron out was done by then.

However... A decent twin cam can be £4500 to £5500. More for a GSA.

You're almost into a 2015 1200LC territory at that price. I've seen them for £6000...(13-14 aren't the best gen btw)

Id rather have an LC over any hex head. It's a much better bike to ride. Faster, lighter, smoother, better tech etc.

But arguably it doesn't have the panzer 'feel' or heritage of the hex heads.

Don't let anyone tell you the LCs are unreliable. They are as reliable as the hex heads. Just different issues. And I would say cheaper to fix too.

But if you're going for a clunker. I think the twin cam is worth the extra investment.

 

[Slipperyeel]

Twin cam.

The motor is much smoother. And it is more powerful once you open it up.

The Twin cam is also the 'sorted' model. Any issues they were prepared to iron out was done by then.

However... A decent twin cam can be £4500 to £5500. More for a GSA.

You're almost into a 2015 1200LC territory at that price. I've seen them for £6000...(13-14 aren't the best gen btw)

Id rather have an LC over any hex head. It's a much better bike to ride. Faster, lighter, smoother, better tech etc.

But arguably it doesn't have the panzer 'feel' or heritage of the hex heads.

Don't let anyone tell you the LCs are unreliable. They are as reliable as the hex heads. Just different issues. And I would say cheaper to fix too.

But if you're going for a clunker. I think the twin cam is worth the extra investment.

Interesting views. I do have half an eye on 'trading up' but quite torn because my TC - bar one screw up last Nov/Dec - has been truly wonderful and the love affair goes on. I have been blessed with a good apple and it gets looked after too. I only do long journeys on it, which is one area a few more horse would be welcome once it's loaded up.
So I am interested in what you think of the LC. I guess the TC was already a 'step too far' into vehicle electronics. That has turned out to be completely unfounded. But I am unclear if it is actually quite a different leap into the LC world, especially the 1300 (which is where my eyes are looking)?

 

[Santa-2512]

Twin cam.

The motor is much smoother. And it is more powerful once you open it up.

The Twin cam is also the 'sorted' model. Any issues they were prepared to iron out was done by then.

However... A decent twin cam can be £4500 to £5500. More for a GSA.

You're almost into a 2015 1200LC territory at that price. I've seen them for £6000...(13-14 aren't the best gen btw)

Id rather have an LC over any hex head. It's a much better bike to ride. Faster, lighter, smoother, better tech etc.

But arguably it doesn't have the panzer 'feel' or heritage of the hex heads.

Don't let anyone tell you the LCs are unreliable. They are as reliable as the hex heads. Just different issues. And I would say cheaper to fix too.

But if you're going for a clunker. I think the twin cam is worth the extra investment.

Lol I'd never buy another lc, hence me going back to a twincam. I had one lc for 3 years, 18 months of which it lived in the dealership waiting for Ione fix or another, most unreliable bike I ever owned, and costs, don't even go there, over 100 hours in phone calls alone to get the bloody thing sorted, it wasn't a bike it was triggers broom