1200 GS Camhead or Hexhead

[Slipperyeel]

Lol I'd never buy another lc, hence me going back to a twincam. I had one lc for 3 years, 18 months of which it lived in the dealership waiting for Ione fix or another, most unreliable bike I ever owned, and costs, don't even go there, over 100 hours in phone calls alone to get the bloody thing sorted, it wasn't a bike it was triggers broom

 

[MotoRevive]

Lol I'd never buy another lc, hence me going back to a twincam. I had one lc for 3 years, 18 months of which it lived in the dealership waiting for Ione fix or another, most unreliable bike I ever owned, and costs, don't even go there, over 100 hours in phone calls alone to get the bloody thing sorted, it wasn't a bike it was triggers broom

What were the issues that led to that nightmare?

 

[MotoRevive]

Interesting views. I do have half an eye on 'trading up' but quite torn because my TC - bar one screw up last Nov/Dec - has been truly wonderful and the love affair goes on. I have been blessed with a good apple and it gets looked after too. I only do long journeys on it, which is one area a few more horse would be welcome once it's loaded up.
So I am interested in what you think of the LC. I guess the TC was already a 'step too far' into vehicle electronics. That has turned out to be completely unfounded. But I am unclear if it is actually quite a different leap into the LC world, especially the 1300 (which is where my eyes are looking)?

If I was to pick a good value big GS to own a lifetime, my choice would be a 2015-2018 R1200LC.

There is nothing wrong with the later models. They're just still rather expensive.

The earlier pre TFT /shift cam bike often gets overlooked by those who want the newer tech. So the prices reflect that. They're very good value at the moment.

The 15/16 were Euro 4 had no carbon canister. No super expensive TFT screen. I think they run smoother too. Richer perhaps. Simpler to service and maintain.

This generation on LC will also get a new shaft every 60,000 miles courtesy of BMW.
You'll have to buy your own on 2022 or newer. £1000 plus.

People do wax lyrical about the hex heads. But they were incredibly problematic over their time. And they still have many flaws now which make long term ownership potentially organ-sellingly expensive.

An oil leak on the crank can cost you £2000 to fix at a dealer. Clutch replacement the same price.

Their gearboxes can be crap, the shafts snap when worn and the bevel drives leak and eat their bearings more than any other GS In my experience.

Then you talk fuel pumps, fuel strips etc

The bevel drives on the LC are FAR superior. And a clutch replacement takes an hour.

The only future issue I see on ageing LCs is the stator

It's on the back of the engine. It's an engine out job. A dead stator could cost more than bike if you took it to a dealer.

Another thing with the LCs is that the cylinders are part of the crank case. Any work on those is an engine out job too.

 

[Santa-2512]

What were the issues that led to that nightmare?

It presented the fault

Throttle grip assy, so that was changed, - no joy,

So they changed the Throttle grip loom , - no joy,

So they looked at the O2 sensors

They were fine - but issue was still there

Then it said Camshaft sensor So that was changed - no joy

Then they deduced the main ECU was borked

A new ECU took 5 months to arrive -

Then on they day they handed it back the fuel pressure rail was blocked , so delayed for another week while that was changed

I ran fine for a total of - 2 weeks ,

2 weeks later on the way to have Hill Hold upflashed if broke down again

RH throttle body

I never rode the bike again, it was left at the dealers to dispose of

Would i buy another based on the above no never

 

[MotoRevive]

It presented the fault

Throttle grip assy, so that was changed, - no joy,

So they changed the Throttle grip loom , - no joy,

So they looked at the O2 sensors

They were fine - but issue was still there

Then it said Camshaft sensor So that was changed - no joy

Then they deduced the main ECU was borked

A new ECU took 5 months to arrive -

Then on they day they handed it back the fuel pressure rail was blocked , so delayed for another week while that was changed

I ran fine for a total of - 2 weeks ,

2 weeks later on the way to have Hill Hold upflashed if broke down again

RH throttle body

I never rode the bike again, it was left at the dealers to dispose of

Would i buy another based on the above no never

I think you're more likely to be struck by lightning whilst holding a winning lottery ticket than going through that again with the same bike.

And perhaps more a failure of the system than the bike...

 

[GSCruzer]

Thanks to all for a great discussion. I'm now leaning toward a TC as a first choice, but a very good condition Hexhead would be a close second.

For me the less electronic wizardry the better. Did the all the TCs get ESA, ABS, and traction control as standard or were they options? Of those three I could tolerate traction control and abs, but would definitely prefer a manual adjustable rear shock.

 

[Santa-2512]

I think you're more likely to be struck by lightning whilst holding a winning lottery ticket than going through that again with the same bike.

And perhaps more a failure of the system than the bike...

Indeed,I'd go with both, but as they say, once bitten

 

[EKIMYRF]

Bland is not a word of use to describe my own TC. Jeckle & Hyde maybe since it can ponder around if you want but also get a little wild if you want (above 6.5k). I'm no speed merchant, but it can get definitely keep up with most, if you want

Its Botus the person who called Road6 tyres Death Tyres
I suggest a pinch of salt

 

[botus]

Its Botus the person who called Road6 tyres Death Tyres
I suggest a pinch of salt

show me where I said that ?

 

[seahorse]

I think it was actually Bridgestones from memory but same sentiment.

 

[EKIMYRF]

show me where I said that ?

I wasted enough time already on that conversation - OK it may have been a different brand but "death tyres" you do tend towards the dramatic


Apologies it was indeed Bridgestone Battleaxe tyres that were death traps it was the Brembo brake pads you described as Death Pads - hard to keep up

 

[Santa-2512]

Anything can kill you if pushed past there limits

 

[botus]

I wasted enough time already on that conversation - OK it may have been a different brand but "death tyres" you do tend towards the dramatic


Apologies it was indeed Bridgestone Battleaxe tyres that were death traps it was the Brembo brake pads you described as Death Pads - hard to keep up

and they are indeed nasty dangerous tyres, if you cant tell that there is an issue with your ability on a bike

try a real tyre.... like a set of dunlop trailmax meridians - light and day difference

 

[seahorse]

 

[MotoRevive]

and they are indeed nasty dangerous tyres, if you cant tell that there is an issue with your ability on a bike

try a real tyre.... like a set of dunlop trailmax meridians - light and day difference

I had a set of Batlax A40s on my 2007 1200 GSA. And the A41s

They lasted a whole year of two up riding all over Wales, The lakes, Scotland and every fast, wet, slimy B and A road in between.

I found them excellent. I could get my pegs down regularly even on damp roads and they gripped well even with ABS chatter or trail braking.

It sounds like you had a bad experience. Not all tyres suit all styles of riding.

But it's a bit much to call them dangerous. It's very misleading. You just aren't a good match.

 

[botus]

I test rode two GSA in very good condition, both fitted front and rear with these A41s - one was a new set on the bike I bought - the other was a nearly new set - Both bikes with the correct tyre pressures, washed out and I nearly dropped both bikes multiple times whenever riding smoothly and gently out of slow speed T junctions - never had anything quite like it before - behaving like my other GS does on deep gravel

Threw the A41 away and went with a Dunlop RoadSmart 4 (which I'd waited 2 years to try as hard to get hold of).

Sadly unlike the real Road Smart 1, 2, or 3. Version 4 is a squidgy sidewall joke - bringing nasty weird understeer - oversteer handling all in the same sweeping bend - and with exacerbated behaviours on the telelever GS setup ( just as I found running bridgstone tyres years earlier). Dunlop (which usually wins all races at the TT) used to always have stiff front sidewalls - as this attribute makes bikes behave correctly - but in keeping up with the jones - Dunlop have started down the route of adding squidy joke tyres to suit the brain dead play station generation....

currently both my air cooled GS's are on dunlop trailmax meridians - and they never exhibit any weirdness anywhere

My comment about Michelin and their moves to squidgy sidewalls was on the Road 2 which made for large stoppies all day long, it also has a bit of the understeer overstear mess up on sweepers - but that aspect could be controlled by running 2.7 bar pressure on the front. However that high pressure didn't help under braking, it just got 2 foot of air all day long when braking hard - when I went back to stiff sidewall Dunlop tyres up front - I almost never get air under the back tyre - I just stop in control....

 

[MWH]

Thanks to all for a great discussion. I'm now leaning toward a TC as a first choice, but a very good condition Hexhead would be a close second.

For me the less electronic wizardry the better. Did the all the TCs get ESA, ABS, and traction control as standard or were they options? Of those three I could tolerate traction control and abs, but would definitely prefer a manual adjustable rear shock.

I have an 09, had it 14 years and have no intention to change it. It has ESA etc on it but I believe they were options. I have a friend with a TC and it doesn't have ABS or ESA, they're not common but they are out there. I quite like the ESA and Denzo can rebuild the shocks. His TC is more economical but I have af xieds fitted so that may account for that. I like mine as it has the screw/locknut valve adjustment, i don't like doing shims. A 20 valve FZ750 taught me to dislike them!!

Both are good bikes and sure you'll be happy with either.

 

[Ex-Call Centre Chimp]

and they are indeed nasty dangerous tyres, if you cant tell that there is an issue with your ability on a bike

try a real tyre.... like a set of dunlop trailmax meridians - light and day difference

I've had my 1200 TC GSA from new and with only ever had Battleaxe tyres on except the time I tried Michelins. I soon went back to the Bridgestones.

 

[T250Tut]

Just a bit of clarity required really but im getting confused - LC i get is liquid cooled but all this talk about twin cam and hex head????? I thought a twin cam was a hex head - so what is my 2011 R200gs k25????

TIA

 

[Joepi5]

Just a bit of clarity required really but im getting confused - LC i get is liquid cooled but all this talk about twin cam and hex head????? I thought a twin cam was a hex head - so what is my 2011 R200gs k25????

TIA

Thats a twin cam. The head has still a hex shaped. Easiest wat to see the difference between twin cam and non twin cam is the spark plug cover.

Twin cam = vertical cover
Non twin cam = horizontal cover