1200gs rough running and loss of power

[dd1150A]

I'm looking for some advice and possible answers to the problems I'm having with my 42K, 2004, 1200 GS.
The engine is running a bit rough and there is a considerable loss of power under acceleration when I open the throttle. The engine feels like it's choking, surges a bit and then chokes and splutters again with no power when it reaches about 4000 rpm. This only seems to happen when I suddenly open the throttle. If I open the throttle (very) slowly it seems to pick the revs up to about 5.5k rpm but it is still sluggish.

A bit of background:
I rode the bike through some flood water a couple of weeks ago. The water was quite deep and the engine stalled before I managed to get the other side. I didn't attempt to restart as I new this could damage the engine. Got recovered to the dealer (the service was due in a couple of hundred miles anyway). I was bracing myself for the worst but they managed to dry it, service it and restart it. In the next few days I noticed that the engine was running a bit rougher then usual, a bit more vibrations at higher revs and quite 'lumpy' at start-up when idling, although it seemed to get better as the engine warmed up.
As it was bothering me, I went back to the dealer yesterday to have it checked having done a few hundred miles since the flooding and the service. They run the diagnose, checked the sparkplugs, checked the throttle balancing and then they run out of time as it was quite late in the day. As they couldn't find any problems they booked me in for next Saturday to check the injectors and run other checks...
On the way back home from the dealer I was giving it a bit of a handful when I encountered the loss of power for the first time (I was overtaking at the time as well ). Slowed down and limped back home at 50mph. Now, I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence or the visit to the dealer just made things worse? Tried to use the bike to go to work today but had to turn around after 10 miles as the lack of power was becoming dangerous and didn't want to cause any furhter damage.

So, based on the above has anybody experienced something similar with their engine or got any ideas of what the cause (and the remedy) could be?

btw, I got the piss taken at work already about my underwater adventure so constructive opinions only please

Many thanks,
Daniel

 

[HeatedGrips]

Might be one of the coil packs in the plug caps. One of mine went and I had similar symptoms. Only cure is a new one - about 40-quid

 

[dd1150A]

Might be one of the coil packs in the plug caps. One of mine went and I had similar symptoms. Only cure is a new one - about 40-quid

Is this something I can check and replace?

 

[Paul90]

about 40-quid

Where from ?
Try £60 to £70 depending if it's primary or secondary that's blown.
(sounds like a primary from the description)

And why oh why are the secondary coils different from right to left ?
Only the primary ones can be used on both left and right.
The 1200 has 4 stick coils and there are 3 different ones

Perhaps after the guy finished designing the rear light he started on the coils.

 

[RickG]

Any possibility the tank has a few pints of water inside?

 

[Kaybe]

Perhaps check the air filter isn't gummed up.
As the engine demands more air when you go faster, it might be reaching a limit of throughput for the petrol / air mix. Hence loss of power.

It could be a fine film blocking the filter media.

Would be easy enough to check out.


Had a Ducati do that to me, and no it was not from going through deep water.

 

[dd1150A]

Any possibility the tank has a few pints of water inside?

filled up a few times since the flood incident and done a few hundred miles since (always from a Shell garage as it's on the way to work). I only started experiencing the power loss since last Saturday, over the last 50 miles of riding.The water should have not gone in the tank when I rode through the flood as it was 'only' up to the cylinders. I doubt it could be water in the tank althought I considered this too.

 

[dd1150A]

Perhaps check the air filter isn't gummed up.
As the engine demands more air when you go faster, it might be reaching a limit of throughput for the petrol / air mix. Hence loss of power.

It could be a fine film blocking the filter media.

The air filter should have been changed when the bike was serviced after the flooding, but I take your point - it's probably worth checking...

 

[GSmonkey]

Sounds like the secondary plugs/coils. Had similar syptoms on my 04GS ie loss of power when the throttle was whacked wide open (as I have a tendancy to do )

 

[majorbumsore]

check the cat hasn't collapsed and is blocking the exhaust. or other exhaust promlem/blockage.
I am asuming the air filter is new with the service....? it has been known for service persons to ''forget to change it''

Good luck hope it turns out to be a cheap fix
Let us know

 

[Paul90]

I rode the bike through some flood water a couple of weeks ago.

Same here. Had to go through some deep floods as all the snow was melting a few weeks back and that seems to have done for one of my secondary coils.

If they go completely then they are easy to fault find. The intermitent ones are a bit more tricky. Which is why it's anoying that there's 3 different types of coil. You can't just buy one spare and move it around until the intermittent problem dissapears.


Paul

 

[dd1150A]

Same here. Had to go through some deep floods as all the snow was melting a few weeks back and that seems to have done for one of my secondary coils.

Paul

Thanks all for the replies so far.
Based on previous answer's and Paul's similar experience it looks quite likely that it is the coils. I'm surprised that the mechanic didn't pick up on this when I went in last Saturday with the rough running issue and knowing that I had ridden through a flood.

I might attempt to run a few checks to confirm it's the one of coils. I've found a few threads on the site on how to do this. I'll let you know what the outcome is.

Out of interest how do the coils get damaged by riding through flood water?

 

[Deleted account LB]

Are you sure someone hasn't snook an 1150 engine in without you noticing ???

 

[Paul90]

Out of interest how do the coils get damaged by riding through flood water?

They are not sealed against moisture very well and it seems they often fail due to damp / corrosion even in "normal" use.

I suspect the temperature shock of a hot coil getting a dose of near freezing water doesn't do them any great favours either.

From other posts on the site it seems they sometimes just fail for no apparent reason at all.

Paul

 

[dd1150A]

Fixed

got home from work last night and decided to have a look at the coils. According to the Haynes manual you can do a basic check on them with a multimeter.

Checked three of the coils and they seemed OK.
When I took the cover off of the last one, the primary of the RH cylinder, I noticed that the connector was not fully inserted in. I believe when I was at the dealer last weekend after they checked the plugs and coils they must have not fully pushed it in. As I was riding back home it must have become looser after a few miles due to the vibrations.

Pushed the connector in, took the bike for a spin and it's all back to 'normal' now.
Really annoyed though that someone who was supposed to fix the bike made matters worse...

Back to the original problem now, the engine lumpiness at idle and higher vibrations at high revs.

Any ideas on this one or perhaps I should start another thread??

 

[MattW]

Back to the original problem now, the engine lumpiness at idle and higher vibrations at high revs.

Any ideas on this one or perhaps I should start another thread??

On an 11xx this would be a symptom of throttle bodies being out of balance. I take it that re-fitting the coil cap didn't help this?

 

[dd1150A]

On an 11xx this would be a symptom of throttle bodies being out of balance. I take it that re-fitting the coil cap didn't help this?

No, re-fitting the coil cap didn't help with this. And the dealer said they'd checked the throttle balance...
They are going to have a look at the injectors this Saturday. Are they likely to be the cause ?

 

[gavin@iow]

They are going to have a look at the injectors this Saturday. Are they likely to be the cause ?

Injectors can give problems with high mileage (gummed nozzles) or dirty/contaminated fuel. The injectors on my renault trafic started giving similar symptoms at 125,000 miles, but a good dose of motor trade quality injector cleaner sorted it out,...worth a try?

 

[MattW]

The rough tickover / high rpm vibration you are feeling, results from the bikes two cylinders making different amounts of power.

What you (or your dealer) needs to do is track down the reason for this.

I don't have a 1200, but the principles are much the same (the 12 just has more sensors / actuators and a cleverer ECU), so bear n mind that I'm not speaking from direct experience of a 12, however I'll offer some possibles....

There are several possible reasons for this cylinder power imbalance, the most common being throttle body sync and failing secondary coils (on a 12 - not an issue on my single spark 11). You say your dealer checked TB sync, but was this with the poorly connected stick coil you mention above? If so, his TB sync will have been pointless.

However, assuming that the sync / coils are good, the throttle position sensor can sometimes lose its baseline setting - try an ECU reset (in fact do this anyway - can't hurt) :

Turn on ignition, don't start engine.

Slowly open the throttle through its full range open-closed. Do this three times.

Turn off ignition.

Turn on ignition and restart engine as normal.

Failing this, it could be injectors (unlikely, but possible) - run a dose of injector cleaner through - more thorough cleaning is possible, but is a fairly specialist job - expensive if you get it wrong.

Another possible is water in the fuel, (although this usually produces worse symptoms than you are experiencing) - is the filler neck water drain hole clear?

More than this is beyond my experience with 1200's - as I say I've got an 1100 and there are probably some 1200 specific issues which other people will need to advise about. Bear in mind that you're really looking for an issue which only affects one cylinder (a control system / sensor issue would more than likely affect both pots and not produce the symptoms you describe).

cheers
M

 

[dd1150A]

The rough tickover / high rpm vibration you are feeling, results from the bikes two cylinders making different amounts of power.
M

Matt, thanks for your post. I think you're describing exactly how the bike feels at idle, as if one of the cylinders is not quite keeping up with the other.

I will try the ECU reset, as you said it can't hurt...and checked the filler neck and no water there.

I checked the oxygen sensors last night. the right one looked clean and a slight brownish clolour. The left one had a white deposit on it which made me think that there might be something wrong on that side of the engine. I wiped it off and put it back but no change today. Any ideas what the white deposit is an indication of?

The dealer said that they were going to work through elimination to find the issue but don't want to end up with a huge bill just for the investigation. Let's say that one of the cylinders is not firing/working properly. What is the worst that can happen if I carry on running the bike like this? Is there any permanent damage likely?