1250 it is !

[Fireflyer]

To all you technical geniuses...It you look at a bike from above a BMW boxer has a crankshaft that goes North-South (or as Tanneman has pointed out - longitudinal or inline, as us technical geniuses refer to them) straight with the driveshaft.On a bike like this a driveshaft has less parasitic loss than a chain.You can get that number from manufacturers claimed hp figures and real rear wheel hp numbers on a dyno.
On a shaft driven bike with a crankshaft that goes West-East (lateral or transverse, another technical genius term) the power obviously has to be redirected by a 90 degree geardrive that costs more power than chaindrive would because the chaindrive does not need a 90 degree bevel drive on these applications like inline 2,3,4,6 cylinder engines...

I hope that was not too hard to understand...

You do know that the GS drive train goes through a 90 degree gear drive don't you

I'm getting to be a lazy sod with old age so I can completely understand the appeal of shaft drive, you just need to argue its merits on actual facts and benifits

 

[Cliffbase]

Some very interesting reading here.

Some well researched, educated input, some utter hogwash & various opinions on BHP/Torque/Shaft & chain options.

That's all well & good, but what I really want to know is:

Is there going to be a fight?

Contenders (as I see it) are:

Stick
Andres
Smogbob
Arsey
Boxerlust

I don't know any of them, but I think my money is on Andres. Never met him, but known a few hippy veggies in my time and some of them have a secret vicious violet skills they keep hidden under the loving spaced out exterior.

Anyone offering odds? Is it pay per view?

 

[Troppo]

You do know that the GS drive train goes through a 90 degree gear drive don't you

I'm getting to be a lazy sod with old age so I can completely understand the appeal of shaft drive, you just need to argue its merits on actual facts and benifits

 

[Arsey]

I don't know any of them, but I think my money is on Andres. Never met him, but known a few hippy veggies in my time and some of them have a secret vicious violet skills they keep hidden under the loving spaced out exterior.

Anyone offering odds? Is it pay per view?

Are they vegan-friendly ??



Meanwhile,the sun will soon be up in lala land.I wonder what more crap BillyBullshit wil have dreamed up during his slumber ?

 

[Nutty]

The likes of boxerlust (other contributor's are available) don't seem to be able to back up their views with any serious evidence and seem to think if you just keep posting the same inaccurate information (bullshit) it will somehow turn into a truth.

That’s the American way

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

That’s the American way

It works for Trump

Andres

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Some very interesting reading here.

Some well researched, educated input, some utter hogwash & various opinions on BHP/Torque/Shaft & chain options.

That's all well & good, but what I really want to know is:

Is there going to be a fight?

Contenders (as I see it) are:

Stick
Andres
Smogbob
Arsey
Boxerlust

I don't know any of them, but I think my money is on Andres. Never met him, but known a few hippy veggies in my time and some of them have a secret vicious violet skills they keep hidden under the loving spaced out exterior.

Anyone offering odds? Is it pay per view?

Leave me out of this one, way out of my league......... I can only ride my bike fix a few things if they go wrong, but engineering way out of my capacities.

 

[tanneman]

It works for Trump

Andres

Err... No, that is fake news. Don't argue with me or I'll use my special skills to find you. And I will and then I will paint you orange and dye your hair blonde. Believe me, it is going to hurt our eyes.

Can somebody do a photo shop of the hippy in orange with blond hair?

 

[andylel]

The correct terminology is longitudinal and lateral.

I don't pretend to have a clue about the rest of the engineering stuff but I thought the correct terminology was 'longitudinal' for a crankshaft in line the the drive train / wheels and 'transverse' for crankshaft at 90 degrees to drivetrain / wheels. I stand to be correct though.

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

I don't pretend to have a clue about the rest of the engineering stuff but I thought the correct terminology was 'longitudinal' for a crankshaft in line the the drive train / wheels and 'transverse' for crankshaft at 90 degrees to drivetrain / wheels. I stand to be correct though.

That’s what you’d normally expect to call the engine layouts but that’s because English is your first language and that’s not something the merkin can claim.

 

[tanneman]

If you had a conversation and use that terminology then it would be perfectly understandable.

 

[Boxerlust]

I understand now that some people hate BMW because they are clueless idiots like stick pointed out before...
I just wonder why they congregate in a BMW enthusiast forum ?
Oh well one last time...Take 2 shaft driven bikes.A BMW GS and and Yamaha Supertenere or Honda's sorry V-4 version of a GS and follow how the power is transmitted from the crankschaft to the clutch through gearbox to the rear wheel and you will see why the boxer looses less power than a shaft driven bike with V4 or parallel twin or inline 4 if you put the FJR in the equation !
I have already pointed out where the difference lies between shaftdrive on a BMW boxer not K1200S and the other shaft driven bikes except for Moto-Guzzi and ST1300 so figure it out...
To back it up 20 years ago there was a test with dyno comparison of the then new BMW R1100S and Honda VTR 1000.If I remember right both bikes made the same amount of Rear wheel horsepower while the BMW had 98 and the Honda 105 crankshaft horsepower.
The magazine pointed out that the driveshaft in a engine configuration like the BMW boxers has less parasitic losses than a chain !
Now take that for an answer or go and faak yourselves as Rossi would say...

Back to the R 1250 GS...with hopefully 129 Rear Wheel HP...

 

[Engineer]

The reason most motorcycles use a chain is because it’s cheaper and lighter.

 

[tanneman]

And still the R1100S in standard trim makes about 88 bhp at the wheel on a good day. What was the VTR? An educated guestimate would put it closer to 100 bhp. Percentage wise it would be a win to the chain drive as far as power loss is concerned. And nowhere in your response have you delivered to back up the claims. I can write the same story as you like little red riding hood but there is proof that what I say is true.

https://www.onlinejournal.in/IJIRV3I4/242.pdf

https://autoportal.com/articles/chain-drive-vs-belt-drive-vs-shaft-drive-2307.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_shaft

Why a universal joint loses energy. It is a wiki link but none the less valid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

Chain drives

http://chain-guide.com/basics/2-chain-dynamics.html

If what you are saying is the the BMW shaft drive system is more efficient than other similar drive systems then probably yes but I won't know for sure. They have been making these things for a long time. But compare it to another method of drive then it loses in terms of efficiency. The application in which the motorcycle will be used will determine the method of drive.

Don't forget Mr Engineer, in the case of your Trump bike is to fling oil on your clothing.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

The reason most motorcycles use a chain is because it’s cheaper and lighter.

.........and performs better than a shaft because;

It is simpler.

There are less mechanical losses in the drive chain.

No backlash in the drive chain.

There is less unsprung weight.

There is less overall weight.

And..........most importantly............you can get chains in funky colours.


All of the above (other than the funky colours) contribute to a better ride; better handling, more power, better drivability at low speeds (off road, filtering through traffic etc).

Sometimes cheap and simple is best. In this case there is no argument. The ONLY benefit of shaft drive is low maintenance (unless of course you run any 1200 GS up to the introduction of the WC in which case your shaft drive chain (FD's) is a consumable, just like a chain).

Andres

 

[Boxerlust]

Tannenbaum there is no help for you...between the advertised crankshaft horsepower and the power at the rear wheel the shaftdrive of the R1100S is more efficient than the chain on the VTR !
And when the chain gets old and dirty even more so...enough said !
Believe it ain't so...
Oh well,I still would prefer shaftdrive on a boxer even if it wasn't more efficient than a chain...
Too bad the magazines don't have any news/spyshots about what is about to come those useless fecks...at least 140NM is good news as most people run between 3 and 8000 rpm than chase a 8-9000 rpm top-end and the T-L will not be replaced by a stone-age fork...
8 more weeks and we know for sure...

 

[tanneman]

Still no evidence to back your claim. Telling me the VTR lost about 20 bhp from crank to engine. Have you read the links I posted?

Fork technology has moved on since the Earles fork and telelever. It can be done away with to make the bike even lighter. Oh, and it is tanneman, which you will never know what it means

 

[tanneman]

Scroll down to the bottom. Enough said.

https://www.visordown.com/features/road-tests/road-test-r1100s-v-vtr-v-zrx1200s-v-bandit-1250s

 

[Boxerlust]

I no longer will throw my pearls to the swine...a.k.a. clueless BMW haters...
Let's get back to the original thread and let's prepare to be disappointed...
If it is true that cc remains the same and we only get 9 hp more...
Good thing values of current bikes won't tank...
15nm more is great news though
As also T-L is part of the package... so we can still slaughter Pumpkins and Duc's...

 

[Fireflyer]

Oh well,I still would prefer shaftdrive on a boxer even if it wasn't more efficient than a chain...
:

There you go, thats the simplest truth here, no shame in that

Now to continue with the progress you're making, try not to empower the TL with magical powers beyond the benifits they give when fitted to bikes like the GS, because as pointed out many times there's a reason not everyone has taken up the option to fit them on bikes with other design briefs, including some in BMW's own stable