1250GS Hill Start Control problem

[john-g]

Hi All,

My October 21 1250GS has had a problem with the Hill Start Control since purchase and has been into the Dealer again today trying to sort it out. They replaced the Microswitch under the Clutch Lever but this had no effect.

Problem is that the HSC light goes out as I release the clutch but before the clutch starts to take up the drive, so if stopped on a Hill the bike wants to roll backwards. This is most noticeable when pulling away in slow traffic.

Have any of you also had this problem and if so, has your Dealer been able to fix it?

Thanks.

 

[Winjar]

do you give enough throttle, my 1200 needs lot throttle to take off on steep hill

 

[john-g]

Yes I got used to that on my previous '19 1250GSA where I did 15,000 miles without any problems but noticed it on this bike from day one.

 

[pbbanks]

Let the clutch out quicker or adjust the bite point of the clutch to be earlier when letting clutch out.

 

[Winjar]

Yes I got used to that on my previous '19 1250GSA where I did 15,000 miles without any problems but noticed it on this bike from day one.

have you try clutch in every position to see if make any difference, I think have 3 or 4 position possible for small to big hands

 

[hairysteve]

Probably won't help your situation but there is a difference in the software between the 1200s and 1250 software. The 1200 needs more revs to pull away with the hsc engaged, I found it easier to pull the brake lever again to release it to pull away and use rear brake to prevent any roll back. The 1250 software is a bit more sensitive and if you rev the engine prior to pulling away it seems to release the hsc, is that your problem... premature release

 

[john-g]

have you try clutch in every position to see if make any difference, I think have 3 or 4 position possible for small to big hands

Thanks for your reply. Regarding the Clutch Lever setting, while out this morning the HSC seemed to be working OK but span of the Lever was a too big and think it was on max setting 4 so adjusted it at the side of the road and next time I used HSC the indicator light went off almost immediately and way before the clutch bite point so intend playing with the lever adjuster to try and find the best compromise. Also want to try different pressures on the Brake Lever when applied to see if this has any effect. It's just annoying after 15K problem free miles on the 1250GSA.[/I]

 

[john-g]

Let the clutch out quicker or adjust the bite point of the clutch to be earlier when letting clutch out.

Thanks, but how do I adjust the Bite point of the Clutch when it's hydraulic, or do you mean by the four Lever position settings?

 

[pbbanks]

Thanks, but how do I adjust the Bite point of the Clutch when it's hydraulic, or do you mean by the four Lever position settings?

Try lever adjustment first. You can adjust the hydraulic too by a hex head screw in the bottom of the lever where it pushes the plunger in on master cylinder. BUT be careful if you do as it has a locking grub screw underneath and it is sensitive & get it wrong and you won't have enough free play and clutch will slip. Maybe try 4 position adjustment first and adjust your riding technique to hold bike on front brake lever momentarily until clutch bites as you set off on hill. (Old school style). Hill start can just be used as a "hill hold" to save been stopped on a hill for any length of time and having to have have foot on brake. Or, put it to manual and pull front brake lever to take hill start off when you are about to set off.
Hill start is an aid and if it doesn't suit situation dont use it and set it to either off or manual.

 

[Winjar]

Thanks, but how do I adjust the Bite point of the Clutch when it's hydraulic, or do you mean by the four Lever position settings?

4 lever position settings, just to try if gives you better control, maybe not change anything, but can try

 

[littleade]

do you give enough throttle, my 1200 needs lot throttle to take off on steep hill

I had HH on my 2018 1200 and it was quite harsh, where as the HH is much better on the 1250 and doesn't need as many revs to release it. From what I've experienced on hills that arn't too steep I don't even notice a difference in the amount of throttle needed compared to if it wasn't activated

 

[Winjar]

I had HH on my 2018 1200 and it was quite harsh, where as the HH is much better on the 1250 and doesn't need as many revs to release it. From what I've experienced on hills that arn't too steep I don't even notice a difference in the amount of throttle needed compared to if it wasn't activated

yes I agree with you, I have try a 1250 and was big difference

 

[john-g]

Try lever adjustment first. You can adjust the hydraulic too by a hex head screw in the bottom of the lever where it pushes the plunger in on master cylinder. BUT be careful if you do as it has a locking grub screw underneath and it is sensitive & get it wrong and you won't have enough free play and clutch will slip. Maybe try 4 position adjustment first and adjust your riding technique to hold bike on front brake lever momentarily until clutch bites as you set off on hill. (Old school style). Hill start can just be used as a "hill hold" to save been stopped on a hill for any length of time and having to have have foot on brake. Or, put it to manual and pull front brake lever to take hill start off when you are about to set off.
Hill start is an aid and if it doesn't suit situation dont use it and set it to either off or manual.

Thanks to all of you that have replied.

I am going to check the various Clutch Lever span settings and take a look to maybe alter the Master Cylinder Piston clearance if the Lever doesn't improve things. Also will try pumping the Clutch a few times before testing HSC next time.

The Bike's Handbook states that Hill Start Control is meant to hold the rear Brake on until the ABS senses that the bike has begun to move forward and then release it, so there should be no need to feather the Clutch and balance against a finger on the front brake lever. Nowhere does the Handbook mention that Clutch Lever movement is part of the system.

The only bike where I found the HSC action harsh was on my '66 1200GS where I had it added after buying the bike. On both the 1250 GSA and GS the action is smooth and barely noticeable other than the Bike wanting to roll backwards during release on this GS.

I have had plenty of years riding bikes without this feature and neither of my other bikes have it, but I do use it a lot on the GS models both because it's there, I have paid for it as part of the brand new bike and do appreciate the benefits, including when stopped in traffic while on a steep hill and for pulling away.

Still hoping to hear from somebody who has had the same problem and maybe their Dealer got to the root cause.

 

[botus]

this post is ridiculous

the span adjuster doesn't impact the point the microswitch operates
the micro switch is for the side stand - I'd find it interesting if had anything to do with hill start - most stuff just abuses the clutch till the ABS sensors tell the system to let go (just as you now notice it says in the user manual)
all of which points to an incompetent dealership making things worse
the whole idea that you can't do a better job with the front brake lever whilst coordinating the clutch and revs at the same time probably means it would be safer if you weren't on a motorbike

it ONLY fitted just like stop start on cars" to wear things out and sell more parts or vehicles", in this case to over work the ABS motor brushes - as if BMW need more support selling these units, and of course to abuse the clutch

 

[john-g]

this post is ridiculous

the span adjuster doesn't impact the point the microswitch operates
the micro switch is for the side stand - I'd find it interesting if had anything to do with hill start - most stuff just abuses the clutch till the ABS sensors tell the system to let go (just as you now notice it says in the user manual)
all of which points to an incompetent dealership making things worse
the whole idea that you can't do a better job with the front brake lever whilst coordinating the clutch and revs at the same time probably means it would be safer if you weren't on a motorbike

it ONLY fitted just like stop start on cars" to wear things out and sell more parts or vehicles", in this case to over work the ABS motor brushes - as if BMW need more support selling these units, and of course to abuse the clutch

I agree regarding the Clutch Microswitch and couldn't see what effect it has on Hill Start, but either that is releasing the rear Brake or something else is, as the Brake releases before the Bike starts to move and the point of release can be found by slowly releasing the Clutch lever until the Hill Start light goes out, which is while the Bike is still at a standstill so is before the ABS sensor can read that the wheels are turning.

Obviously you would only accept the above if you saw it yourself even though you appear to be the Fountain of all Knowledge.

I was probably feathering the clutch lever and balancing it against the front Brake before you were born so please don't make accusations of incompetence as you don't know the facts and all I want is what I paid for!

 

[botus]

thanks for the reply - I was thinking as I posted earlier, if there is a step change where it "usually" works better on later models, maybe they did look for another way to switch out. I hate the amount of abuse you have to give some car's to get it to let go. But if they did make a change then the user manual ought to have been updated.

Saying that, another possible "more sensible" idea to get it to release came to mind - the bikes have these suspension level thingy's for the active stuff. If you were to meet these conditions: if stationary, in first gear, clutch in, throttle opening, now measure the rear squat, when x is reached let the brake off. But then of course if you bounced it about then it might come off anyway. If they had done this, rider height might impact it ?


For me the only way a clutch lever switch could work correctly is if its progressive rather than just on off - and had a calibration process ???

How's the clutch feel ? have you got air in the system? - have you tried their demo bike to test its behaviour vs yours?

 

[pbbanks]

Just out of curiosity you say your bike is an Oct 21 gs. Is it the 2022 model?. I have the 2022 one and was just looking at the handbook but can't find the reference to ABS releasing the HSC as you mentioned earlier. --- "The Bike's Handbook states that Hill Start Control is meant to hold the rear Brake on until the ABS senses that the bike has begun to move forward and then release it". None of that is in my handbook that i can see.
Probably doesnt help your problem anyway but wondered if 2022 model had been changed. It does call it HSC pro now .
Handbook only mentions that on slight inclines dont require more throttle before hsc releases but on steeper inclines more throttle is required to release HSC. Pages 173-4 in handbook. Other thing I saw is that it times out after 10 mins and switches hsc off. Plus it talks about notifying rider it is switched off by giving a "brake warning jolt" . Don't know what thats all about , think I'll just ride it !.
Other thing that may help you , sorry if you already know, but clutch lever has a double microswitch. One works at beginning of lever pull (to deactivate cruise control for one thing, may have other functions??) And other one as yiu let the lever out , this one probably switches off Hsc if other conditions are met?? , like being on a gentle incline. You can hear both microswitches clicking as you pull\release the clutch lever without engine running. Dont know if switching point of microswitch is adjustable (probably not). Steep hill also needs more throttle according to manual. Who thought hsc could be so complex!.

 

[botus]

Is it the 2022 model?. It does call it HSC pro now

Handbook only mentions that on slight inclines dont require more throttle before hsc releases, but on steeper inclines more throttle is required to release HSC..

this sounds like they now use the ABS Pro IMU to tell it if its a steep hill, and if it is hang on the brakes harder for longer... that makes a fair bit of sense, nothing hardware wise gets modified, just some joker got at the software. Which means it will likely work correctly in 6 months after enough normal riders mention the factory dev riders did it all wrong - and they refine its implementation in a software update due out in March 2022

 

[botus]

this goes round to the stuff they do in cars... they enabled hill hold on my sisters car in a recall update for something else (without informing the owner of the new feature). Trouble was when I was driving since its fitment I immediately noticed its changed behaviour and over the course of about 10 stops noticed it 100% reliably held itself still every time I stopped. So I assumed they had fitted an automatic handbrake feature (which would be pretty sensible).

Trouble was after getting its MOT, I drove back the opposite way !!

At the first two stops it held itself still... but then waiting at yet another pointless stop, took my foot of the brake believing it would hold itself still (as it had every time I'd stopped up to this point). And with nothing to do but wait for the fake traffic delay, I'm looking around out the side windows at the view... only to discover the car had rolled 3 m into the junction !!! And what had 100% reliably been giving the affect of an automatic handbrake was really just dangerous Hill Hold Assist

 

[Pukmeister]

My hill start control should be working again soon once I replace my weeping rear master cylinder.