Aurelius
Registered user
Dahoum said:check out a few Fazer 600 forums thenmy last bike and a lot worse than here
I'd be willing to bet that failed final drives aren't a common problem on Fazer 600's.
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I'd be willing to bet that failed final drives aren't a common problem on Fazer 600's.
I think you can have bad examples of bikes (and good!) from manufacturers. I had a year 2000 CBR600FY which ate a cylinder head and cams, (at 3000 miles!!) two front disks, a cam chain tensioner a rear shock and by the time I sold it 13,000 miles and 16 months old you could lift the rear wheel up 1cm with the bike on the centre stand because of wear in the rear shock linkage!!
Yet CBR600's have a reputation for reliability!! On the other hand I had an old CB900F2C from 1984-1991 and never had a pick of bother with it despite the bike generally having a poor reliability reputation.
My current bikes 2001 Suzuki gsxr600. The most reliable bike I have ever owned no faults at all Just serviced and fed with petrol. Wife's 2003 SV650S no probs but has only done 3000 miles so far! 1995 winter hack MZ Skorpion Tour no real probs just make sure its loctited together otherwise stuff vibrates off. R1150GS lots of niggling little faults and the finish isn't great...........but its now the one I ride the most cos its comfy and does lots of stuff well.
Yet CBR600's have a reputation for reliability!! On the other hand I had an old CB900F2C from 1984-1991 and never had a pick of bother with it despite the bike generally having a poor reliability reputation.
My current bikes 2001 Suzuki gsxr600. The most reliable bike I have ever owned no faults at all Just serviced and fed with petrol. Wife's 2003 SV650S no probs but has only done 3000 miles so far! 1995 winter hack MZ Skorpion Tour no real probs just make sure its loctited together otherwise stuff vibrates off. R1150GS lots of niggling little faults and the finish isn't great...........but its now the one I ride the most cos its comfy and does lots of stuff well.
Alan1963
Registered user
Perhaps just to offer a little objectivity....
...according to the poll elsewhere on this forum 80.35% of 1200GS owners would buy another one. Having spent 20 years in the automotive industry I can tell you that most brands would kill for loyalty of that level. Anything over 50% is considered to be good. Given that a fair number of people have registered their vote in the poll, I'd consider it to be a representative sample.
Against that background, I'd think it both fair and objective to suggest that Tentoone's problems, real as they are to him, represent a rare occurence in GS ownership.
And as for all the personal slagging off, sorry, but that's just boring...surely you've got better things to do with your time.
Alan
PS - My 650 GS was flawless, my 1150 GS had one fault fixed by the dealer in 3 years of ownership and the 1200 GS has been flawless aside from the squealing brake issue that has been well debated here and which was fixed with the BMW mod. Oh, and my Autocom saga which was all the fault of the poor service at Battersea, not the GS itself. But that of course is my subjective view. Above is, I think, pretty objective.
...according to the poll elsewhere on this forum 80.35% of 1200GS owners would buy another one. Having spent 20 years in the automotive industry I can tell you that most brands would kill for loyalty of that level. Anything over 50% is considered to be good. Given that a fair number of people have registered their vote in the poll, I'd consider it to be a representative sample.
Against that background, I'd think it both fair and objective to suggest that Tentoone's problems, real as they are to him, represent a rare occurence in GS ownership.
And as for all the personal slagging off, sorry, but that's just boring...surely you've got better things to do with your time.
Alan
PS - My 650 GS was flawless, my 1150 GS had one fault fixed by the dealer in 3 years of ownership and the 1200 GS has been flawless aside from the squealing brake issue that has been well debated here and which was fixed with the BMW mod. Oh, and my Autocom saga which was all the fault of the poor service at Battersea, not the GS itself. But that of course is my subjective view. Above is, I think, pretty objective.
Mzokk said:
I bought my CBR600 new in '97 and it's now done 89,500 miles. It was completely reliable until 500 miles ago when the fuel pump shut-off relay failed (35 quid to replace). The rear shock was replaced at 45k but it's still on the original battery, brake discs etc. The rest has just been scheduled servicing ... and a lot of tyres
Great bike 
After 8 1/2 years on the same bike I fancied a change and bought a 2003 GS last october (kept the CBR though) and have covered 4k on it. It's fun to ride and been reliable so far but have to say having read through much of the forum I'm now paranoid and waiting for something to fail. There does seem to be a lot of problems posted up
TENTOONE said:
Right I'm here. I was me, I fess up. I put this post on MCN, I've also had a letter printed in T.W.O.(the one out now) and I've also picked up some good tips from here, Visordown, Advrider, BMWClub UK etc etc etc.
The bike (an early one) in fact went through 3 gearboxes in 8,500 miles so as you can guess I was not a happy bunny and I've got plenty of posts on this subject on this site.
I'm getting to the point. Once BMW realised how serious it all was they were very quick to act and to cut a long story short I've got a brand new bike and it's running like a dream.
I decided to give the 12GS another chance because I havn't found anything else that will
commute through central london
carry a load of kit
clatter over crap roads at breakneck speeds
do 200 miles on a tank
get my knee down
and then dick about on green lanes
and stop in under a third of the distance of a scooter from 30 mph
and bounce
So, BMW loses one customer and nearly lost another.
I'd be interested to know more about your experiences with the local dealer because I think that from the last couple of months your experience has been very different to mine.
Deleted Member I
Guest
marcus said:
I think a marketing person would love to get hold of your DNA and clone you.
You are UNBELIEVEABLY LOYAL as a customer. Which is neither a good or bad thing from my perspective. Are you like that with all your branded products? Clothing, TV, HiFi, Car??
Interesting to find out what makes you tick ....
Novice said:
Well actually BMW did lose a sale. I bought a sportsbike last year and the reason BMW didn't get a look in was because I was so pissed of with them.
I'm not really a brand sort of person. 6,000 mile service intervals and shaft drive is more relevant to my needs.ABS has saved my bacon,as has the high riding position.
Plus the dealer gave me a new 12 GS demo whilst they sorted out my new one - I felt noticed!
edit: I did the BMW off road skills course last year wit Simon Pavey (name drop) on a 12 GS and saw the beatings that these impressive machines are capable of sustaining = fastastic brand reinforcement by BMW. so yes, I did sucker for brand loyalty a bit, come to think of it.
bgfinlay said:I bought my CBR600 new in '97 and it's now done 89,500 miles. It was completely reliable until 500 miles ago when the fuel pump shut-off relay failed (35 quid to replace). The rear shock was replaced at 45k but it's still on the original battery, brake discs etc. The rest has just been scheduled servicing ... and a lot of tyres
After 8 1/2 years on the same bike I fancied a change and bought a 2003 GS last october (kept the CBR though) and have covered 4k on it. It's fun to ride and been reliable so far but have to say having read through much of the forum I'm now paranoid and waiting for something to fail. There does seem to be a lot of problems posted up
Quite bgf some bikes go on for ever with no bother others don't....They loaned me a 1998 CBR when mine was in to have the head replaced. Was a much better road bike than the 2000 model (the headlight worked for a start) They seemed a bit peed off when I came back to collect mine and I'd put 2,000 miles up on it in six weeks.
Aurelius
Registered user
Alan1963 said:
Be careful about how you interpret poll results. Here you might be confusing owner satisfaction with reliability. One might be inclined to think the former implies the latter, but that isn't the case. Harleys and Ducatis had a poor reputation for reliability, but that never seemed to dissuade past owners from buying more of them; mechanical failures were just considered part of the "price of admission". Some even said it gave their bikes "character". BMW owners might be under a similar spell. Problem areas like failed final drives and dodgy transmissions are things members of the Roundel club seem to take in stride; I suspect a dyed in the wool Honda owner wouldn't be as forgiving.
oh, you might find that quite a few of the whinges on various sites are, in fact, all me
So if a few people put of lots of whinges it might seem disproportionate.
Can't believe I'm getting defensive about my bike
So if a few people put of lots of whinges it might seem disproportionate.
Can't believe I'm getting defensive about my bike
''Somebody asked me what I was purchasing next; took two test rides on the Honda CB 1300. Really good bike and admittedly, after the problems with the GS, I have ran back to what really works''
Friend of mine sold his 1200GS (a few weeks old) and bought a CB1300 and loves it.....
Had no problems with the GS, just didn't feel right.
Nice bike the CB1300, but Ken Barlow character.
Friend of mine sold his 1200GS (a few weeks old) and bought a CB1300 and loves it.....
Had no problems with the GS, just didn't feel right.
Nice bike the CB1300, but Ken Barlow character.
I've always made my own mind upon which bike i want to ride -
neither praise nor damning would infuence my choice, as you'll get both on any model of bike your looking at .
neither praise nor damning would infuence my choice, as you'll get both on any model of bike your looking at .
Novice said:I am with you on this one!
I........ You don't see people praising the GS on the Monster club website or the Honda website. It is soooo misguided........
Not true - I have praised the GS on the Monster website many times - in fact only a day or so ago - I pointed it out as the best bike I had ever owned.
How so? He's found a bike that does what he wants. The first one didn't work, he made a fuss and got one that does work. Doesn't make it incredibly loyal.
Paul
yet-to-buy
Guest
By their very nature, sites like this will highlight problems/issues with a bike - people tend to be quiet until something goes wrong!That unfortunately can give the wrong impression of a bike's real reliability.
One of the most valuable and obvious lessons in buying any type of new product is.......DON'T!!!!! Yes, we all want the latest and "best" but it's best to wait 6 months or so for all the little issues, upgrades and "continual improvement" to have been applied.
No bike is perfect - my Triumph has/had dodgy electrics, the gearbox output shaft leaked, the speedo drive fell off, the plastic fuel connectors snapped, the OE chain snapped at 130mhp destroying the rear end (and it is rumoured the factory were aware of a batch of faulty chains),the whole front fairing assembly worked loose and worst of all, the dealer went belly-up leaving no one nearby to fix the bike. But the reason I wouldn't buy another Triumph is that the brand had no focus and no core values- simple as that...they are a follower not a leader
All vehicles have their problems - they key is how they are dealt with.
One of the most valuable and obvious lessons in buying any type of new product is.......DON'T!!!!! Yes, we all want the latest and "best" but it's best to wait 6 months or so for all the little issues, upgrades and "continual improvement" to have been applied.
No bike is perfect - my Triumph has/had dodgy electrics, the gearbox output shaft leaked, the speedo drive fell off, the plastic fuel connectors snapped, the OE chain snapped at 130mhp destroying the rear end (and it is rumoured the factory were aware of a batch of faulty chains),the whole front fairing assembly worked loose and worst of all, the dealer went belly-up leaving no one nearby to fix the bike. But the reason I wouldn't buy another Triumph is that the brand had no focus and no core values- simple as that...they are a follower not a leader
All vehicles have their problems - they key is how they are dealt with.
TENTOONE said:
And you have obviously researched this properly to back up such a conclusive statement?
yet-to-buy said:
The MK1 of any model is the test model -
The MK2 has all the problems ironed out -
The MK3 is the start of the cost cutting excercise -
TENTOONE
Guest
CB 1300 S ordered up the weekend. Seems Im not the first to switch to the bike from GS riders. Dealer said many like it for its 'planted' feel and aftersales. So, Ill see how I fare.
Yellow Peril
Registered user
I think some people have to think about why they bought the bike.. If they have been sucked in by the LWR and think that the GS will cure all ills then they came to the wrong place. If on the other hand you are like Marcus you had reasons for buying you could have the right one. Me for one I bought the GS12 because I liked the GS1150 but it was too big for me, I love the fact I don't have to f**k around with a chain every time I ride, also how many pocket rockets or Jap bikes in general actually cover the miles GS's do. How many of those ride outs have you been on when the non GS's are stopping for a fag break after 20 miles as the bike is so uncomfortable they can't sit on it for more than half an hour.
As to reliability, my neighbour has a brand new SV650 left for 4/5 weeks it would not start without being attached to the charger, my GS12 suffering the same weather etc started first time after 8 weeks.
People are suckered by the hype and IMHO many GS12's have been sold to those people and unfortunately some expect far more service from BMW than any other brand and if you search these forums most dealer's do come up with the goods. Look at Ride's user survey which dealer is number 1 and which make has the most dealer's in the top 10.
Our orange brothers have a an amazing brand following but in all honestly why? The bike effectively has to be serviced after each ride and don't say they won the dakar, reason why massive service back up and nearly every other bike was a KTM.
Tentoone enjoy your CB1300 you obviously chose the wrong bike for you in a GS.
As to reliability, my neighbour has a brand new SV650 left for 4/5 weeks it would not start without being attached to the charger, my GS12 suffering the same weather etc started first time after 8 weeks.
People are suckered by the hype and IMHO many GS12's have been sold to those people and unfortunately some expect far more service from BMW than any other brand and if you search these forums most dealer's do come up with the goods. Look at Ride's user survey which dealer is number 1 and which make has the most dealer's in the top 10.
Our orange brothers have a an amazing brand following but in all honestly why? The bike effectively has to be serviced after each ride and don't say they won the dakar, reason why massive service back up and nearly every other bike was a KTM.
Tentoone enjoy your CB1300 you obviously chose the wrong bike for you in a GS.
Alan1963
Registered user
Aurelius' comment about me mixing up reliability and loyalty is a fair one and I would probably say that he is right. But then you can go and look at the reliability poll elsewhere on this sight and see that about 79% of us find the reliability on our bikes to be excellent. So 80.35% loyal, 79% reliable, seems like a reasonable correlation. I'm not suggesting that the loyalty is wholly linked to the relaibility, but I'd suggest a fairly high degree of overlap.
The interesting question would be of the 21% who haven't found their GS to be reliable, how many of those would buy another one?
The interesting question would be of the 21% who haven't found their GS to be reliable, how many of those would buy another one?
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