1300gs TE ASA Insurance- No Quotes !

[JohnnyBoxer]

Why are you telling me how clever i am, if it doesn't matter to you ?
Im meeting wapping for a beer, come along Johnny boy, you can explain.

Wapping can explain, on my behalf..............if he feels so inclined

Not declaring the true value of your new bike, to potentially obtain a cheaper annual insurance contract isn't a great idea

Fine, until the point in time that it all unravels and you get found out

If you can afford a £27000 bike you can afford the insurance, no doubt

 

[pbbanks]

Yep, if you fail to declare to an insurance company
But as you’re cleverer ……carry on
Doesn’t matter to me

Don't think it's question of failing to declare, that's not in question. What is in question is when it says on the quotation form "value" , is that the price you paid when you bought it?? Or is it what it is worth now??.
The value an insurance company will pay is the market value, so your new £23k bike may only be worth £19.5k when you drive it out of the shop??.
So why is it "failing to declare" if you put £19.5k??. against the value on a quotation reuest?.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

The questions im asking are not trying to be "clever", they are genuine questions.
JB. . . . .

Wapping can explain, on my behalf..............if he feels so inclined

Not declaring the true value of your new bike, to potentially obtain a cheaper annual insurance contract isn't a great idea

Fine, until the point in time that it all unravels and you get found out

If you can afford a £27000 bike you can afford the insurance, no doubt

I agree with all that.
Its labelling me "unclever, stupid, unwise " personally attacking me on an intraweb forum that bothers me. . . .
That's not clever !

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

The questions im asking are not trying to be "clever", they are genuine questions.
JB. . . . .

I agree with all that.
Its labelling me "unclever, stupid, unwise " personally attacking me on an intraweb forum that bothers me. . . .
That's not clever !

You said that, not me - read my posts again and comprehend what I actually said

I said you were clever

 

[er-minio]

To add to all this... insurances (again, rightly so) say that if you provide inaccurate information the policy can be void and all that scaremongering.

I've done a ton of insurance contracts since moving to the UK.
Every single fucking time you get the contract back, a lot of info is misrepresented.
So then you call them back and ask to correct and they tell you: "oh no, that is not important", "oh no, we can keep that as is".
Best thing ever, for quite a few years my job description wasn't present in most insurance databases. Up to last year, with one insurer my job was misrepresented.
I made them notice at the time, but they told me not to bother.

I wonder how that "don't bother" translates if you ever end up disputing a claim or not.
I wonder how much that also affects the cost of my commuting to work clause on the policy as well.

Essentially this is the thing that bugs me when they ask the price.
If I misrepresent the price (this can be in excess as well), by error, by a small margin then I too should "not bother".

You cannot be anal retentive and then expect the other party to accept a bodge job.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

Don't think it's question of failing to declare, that's not in question. What is in question is when it says on the quotation form "value" , is that the price you paid when you bought it?? Or is it what it is worth now??.
The value an insurance company will pay is the market value, so your new £23k bike may only be worth £19.5k when you drive it out of the shop??.
So why is it "failing to declare" if you put £19.5k??. against the value on a quotation reuest?.

Which is exactly the point im trying to make.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Don't think it's question of failing to declare, that's not in question. What is in question is when it says on the quotation form "value" , is that the price you paid when you bought it?? Or is it what it is worth now??.
The value an insurance company will pay is the market value, so your new £23k bike may only be worth £19.5k when you drive it out of the shop??.
So why is it "failing to declare" if you put £19.5k??. against the value on a quotation reuest?.

On a brand new bike, they will pay the invoice price or a replacement equivalent bike for the first 12 months in many instances of insurance contracts (read the small print first though)

So on a new bike, they need to the list/invoice price as that's what they are insuring for the first 12 months

Used bikes are different and it's 'market value' as you say

Deliberately under declaring the value the real value of a brand new bike isn't a wise idea

 

[Deleted account 251212001]

To add to all this... insurances (again, rightly so) say that if you provide inaccurate information the policy can be void and all that scaremongering.

I've done a ton of insurance contracts since moving to the UK.
Every single fucking time you get the contract back, a lot of info is misrepresented.
So then you call them back and ask to correct and they tell you: "oh no, that is not important", "oh no, we can keep that as is".
Best thing ever, for quite a few years my job description wasn't present in most insurance databases. Up to last year, with one insurer my job was misrepresented.
I made them notice at the time, but they told me not to bother.

I wonder how that "don't bother" translates if you ever end up disputing a claim or not.
I wonder how much that also affects the cost of my commuting to work clause on the policy as well.

Essentially this is the thing that bugs me when they ask the price.
If I misrepresent the price (this can be in excess as well), by error, by a small margin then I too should "not bother".

You cannot be anal retentive and then expect the other party to accept a bodge job.

However I dont think you can say I couldn't get a quote for my 25k new vehicle on your website so fuck it I put down £19999 its sorta worth that or will be soon, and I didn't want to speak to you.

 

[Deleted account 250319001]

If you can afford a £27000 bike you can afford the insurance, no doubt

This may be the issue here ?

On a brand new bike, they will pay the invoice price or a replacement equivalent bike for the first 12 months in many instances of insurance contracts (read the small print first though)

So on a new bike, they need to the list/invoice price as that's what they are insuring for the first 12 months

Used bikes are different and it's 'market value' as you say

Deliberately under declaring the value the real value of a brand new bike isn't a wise idea

The full value of my bike purchase isnt the value of the bike.
As I've explained, ive bought full luggage, new sports exhaust, which has considerably increased that cost. The insurance company wouldn't pay out for all that ? Just the cost of a replacement bike ?
Those cost, with the VAT is considerable.

 

[pbbanks]

On a brand new bike, they will pay the invoice price or a replacement equivalent bike for the first 12 months in many instances of insurance contracts (read the small print first though)

That's IF it says on the policy they will pay the invoice price.
Haven't seen it on my policy this time .

And another anomaly , "replacement equivalent". - to replace your one week old bike with 200miles on the clock is to pay you the price of an ex demo bike with 200miles on the clock. ??

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

This may be the issue here ? Not at all, you money and to do as you please. I could buy a 1300GSA ASA if I so wish, but as it's butt ugly, I won't be

The full value of my bike purchase isnt the value of the bike.
As I've explained, ive bought full luggage, new sports exhaust, which has considerably increased that cost. The insurance company wouldn't pay out for all that ? Just the cost of a replacement bike ?
Those cost, with the VAT is considerable.

If they include in the policy for the first 12 months, a new for old clause in the event of a total loss - then as long as the accessories were on the invoice and those were also declared as fitted, to the insurance company at the outset of the contract (or shortly after) then the whole she-bang will be covered

I had a customer about 10 years ago who swerved to avoid a deer one morning and crashed his 6 month old RR Vogue that cost £100,000 ..........into a tree and wrote it off
Now, a 6 month old RR Vogue at the time, with similar miles etc could be bought from a main dealer for about £70,000
The insurers paid him £100k, his original invoice price and he went out and bought a 6 month old RR Vogue, from a main dealer to replace it, for £68000
So, the insurer paid out what was in his contract - £100k cash or a brand new RR Vogue
He took the cash option
If he had under declared his new RR Vogue at purchase, at say £80,000 to obtain a cheaper annual insurance contract price, then he'd have been fraudulent and potentially done himself out of £100,000
True story
Just pointing out the facts and folly in not acting in utmost good faith when buying insurance

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

That's IF it says on the policy they will pay the invoice price.
Haven't seen it on my policy this time .

And another anomaly , "replacement equivalent". - to replace your one week old bike with 200miles on the clock is to pay you the price of an ex demo bike with 200miles on the clock. ??

My bikes were 'new for old' for the first 12 months, based on invoice price or an exact replacement new bike with CN - but as I haven't bought a new bike for 5 years, then it's no issue
My cars are new for old replacement for the first 2 years and commercials for the first 12 months with NFU Mutual Insurance

 

[er-minio]

If they include in the policy for the first 12 months, a new for old clause in the event of a total loss - then as long as the accessories were on the invoice and those were also declared as fitted, to the insurance company at the outset of the contract (or shortly after) then the whole she-bang will be covered

Then this should be explained to the user when the value of the bike is asked at quote point.
I've done literally hundreds of quotes over the years and there is no specification around anything like that when they ask the value.

I agree you shouldn't try to fuck up the insurer. But - in the same way - do not bend over.

 

[er-minio]

If he had under declared his new RR Vogue at purchase, at say £80,000 to obtain a cheaper annual insurance contract price, then he'd have been fraudulent and potentially done himself out of £100,000

Or insurer could have capped the payment at 80k.
Agreed value, it's just that they'd have to do extra work for it.

As they should do the extra work of having market value for those vehicles, already in the database, when you quote.
As some insurer do with cars. See above.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Or insurer could have capped the payment at 80k.
Agreed value, it's just that they'd have to do extra work for it.

As they should do the extra work of having market value for those vehicles, already in the database, when you quote.
As some insurer do with cars. See above.

No, that insurer had a return to invoice policy on new cars for the first 2 years - following first registration
Cash or an exact replacement new vehicle
Therefore there is no ambiguity about market value, should it be a total loss
If the invoice price at first registration was £101,000.50 that's what you get in cash or a car if the car has risen in price, you get a new car
Read the small print and don't buy GAP insurance, if you're already covered
I work in the financial services sector and the amount of naivety and ignorance, amongst the general public is astonishing at times, most info is gleaned from a man down the pub

 

[er-minio]

I work in the financial services sector and the amount of naivety and ignorance, amongst the general public is astonishing at times, most info is gleaned from a man down the pub

Doesn't surprise me.

Anyway, my point is mostly about clarity. Should be the same from both sides essentially.
If only there was a way to regul... oh wait

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure they don't care if I over/under-valued my bike by 500 quid in error. I'd expect them to stick to the market value.
It's just I don't want to give them any options as, again rightly so, they are strict with the user.

 

[wessie]

Then this should be explained to the user when the value of the bike is asked at quote point.
I've done literally hundreds of quotes over the years and there is no specification around anything like that when they ask the value.

I agree you shouldn't try to fuck up the insurer. But - in the same way - do not bend over.

Insurance is a contract. Like any contract a consumer might buy, mobile phone, energy supply, extended warranty, the onus is on you to read the contract before purchase to ensure it meets your needs. Insurance policy documents are written in plain English but few read them. The same applies to the list of assumptions made by comparison sites that most people skip past. The bit that usually says you need to declare any accessories except for A, B and C or states, "we assume you do not have any medical conditions that need to be declared to DVLA". I check carefully for the latter although they have got better at including a dropdown where I can select "DVLA aware, no restrictions".

I don't think I have seen a motor policy in the UK that does not have as standard some sort of clause where a vehicle that is bought new will be replaced with a new one. For cars that is usually one under 12 months old as with my Saga policy. For my Devitt bike policy it is under 6 months to get a new bike. In both cases, this only applies if you bought the vehicle new.

Of course, if you need someone to hold your hand and explain everything to you before purchase then you will need to pay a higher premium for that by using a qualified intermediary such as a personal broker. I believe Hiscox have this service if they think you have enough income to make it worth their while. Alternatively, ask an amateur on here where the value of the advice is what you pay for it.

 

[er-minio]

Of course, if you need someone to hold your hand and explain everything to you before purchase then you will need to pay a higher premium for that by using a qualified intermediary such as a personal broker. I believe Hiscox have this service if they think you have enough income to make it worth their while. Alternatively, ask an amateur on here where the value of the advice is what you pay for it.

It's not a matter of hand holding.

The insurer is very specific about things during the quote phase, when it suits them. And that is correct. At this stage, if the quote forms were to be designed properly, they should state something when declaring the value and maybe provide a link to the fine print.
Even better, they could also provide an idea of the value, or what they take as market value, as per example above, some bog standard car insurances do already.

This seems a contentious/misunderstood thing for a lot of people and if you were to provide a better service you'd try to solve that specific problem.
But I digress into a different topic such as service/product design.

I honestly never insured a new vehicle in years, so never looked at the clauses because it wasn't my case, not what I was after
My entire point is: the insurer is (again for the third time: rightly so) strict about what we declare about ourselves on the policy, threatening void as well, where, on the other hand, the way a user can provide data is not always, say, best.

I wouldn't care in most cases, to be fair. And, to be fair still, I don't. But if we want to nitpick...

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Insurance is a contract. Like any contract a consumer might buy, mobile phone, energy supply, extended warranty, the onus is on you to read the contract before purchase to ensure it meets your needs. Insurance policy documents are written in plain English but few read them. The same applies to the list of assumptions made by comparison sites that most people skip past. The bit that usually says you need to declare any accessories except for A, B and C or states, "we assume you do not have any medical conditions that need to be declared to DVLA". I check carefully for the latter although they have got better at including a dropdown where I can select "DVLA aware, no restrictions".

I don't think I have seen a motor policy in the UK that does not have as standard some sort of clause where a vehicle that is bought new will be replaced with a new one. For cars that is usually one under 12 months old as with my Saga policy. For my Devitt bike policy it is under 6 months to get a new bike. In both cases, this only applies if you bought the vehicle new.

Of course, if you need someone to hold your hand and explain everything to you before purchase then you will need to pay a higher premium for that by using a qualified intermediary such as a personal broker. I believe Hiscox have this service if they think you have enough income to make it worth their while. Alternatively, ask an amateur on here where the value of the advice is what you pay for it.

Excellent advice
I read T’s and C’s of a renewal invitation from cover to cover, a couple of times
Paying particular attention to any new clauses or changes to existing terms
A common one with motorcycle insurance is the garaging clause and how many misunderstandings occur, by some lack of comprehension

 

[steadysteve]

This may be the issue here ?

The full value of my bike purchase isnt the value of the bike.
As I've explained, ive bought full luggage, new sports exhaust, which has considerably increased that cost. The insurance company wouldn't pay out for all that ? Just the cost of a replacement bike ?
Those cost, with the VAT is considerable.

Did you declare the exhaust as a modification?