1965 Triumph Bonneville TT

[Tinytim]

There seems to be quite a bit of interest in the smaller details, work-arounds and fixes. I've skipped some of these as I thought they might have been a bit boring.

I started my working life as an apprentice Turner/Fitter and now having my own small lathe I can make some parts without having to wait for them being delivered, especially at this time of year. It's also much cheaper. Imperial sized threaded parts are ridiculously expensive, I just paid £4.80 for two 1/4" x 3/4" BSF bolts! I'll post some pictures of the parts I've made, I like seeing other peoples work so this could be of interest to some on here.

It's the smaller details and fixes Im really enjoying. Thanks for taking the time to keep this thread ticking over. I love it.

 

[The Other PaulG]

It's the smaller details and fixes Im really enjoying. Thanks for taking the time to keep this thread ticking over. I love it.

Absolutely! One of the most interesting threads this year.

 

[Number 6]

Frame and forks time. The steering head lock stops were both badly bent, hardly surprising that this is an ex-race bike and has probably been crashed a few times in it's lifetime. From 1966 onwards the lock stops were Cad plated steel items which screwed into lugs cast into the frame headstock, these are fairly simple to remove and replace. On this bike the stops are screwed into the lugs and then welded in and painted over along with the rest of the frame. They took some getting out but the threads cleaned up nicely with a 3/8 cei tap and I then made a new pair from some stainless steel 3/8 unf bolts. I cut off the threaded part of the bolts leaving just a couple of threads to let the die have something to start on without too much effort. I cut the thread slightly over length and then turned off the excess leaving a good 3/8 cei portion. I then sawed off the bolt head, faced the stud to length and screwed it into the headstock with some high strength Loctite. I have an old pair of Mole Grips which I have ground off the teeth from the jaws so they can grip parts without marking them, I used these to screw the stops into the frame.



New stops fitted to the frame.





New steering head bearing races fitted.



Swinging arm installed. I rebuilt 3 swinging arms at the same time 3 years ago so don't have any pictures. They were all rebuilt with new white-metal bearings and bobbins. Supposedly Triumph didn't start using UNF threads until 1969 but this 1965 frame is definitely threaded 9/16 UNF for the swinging arm spindle. The spindle screws into the frame from the right hand side, it should be screwed in just tight enough so that the swinging arm falls slowly under it's own weight then it's secured with a locknut and tab washer.


I then fitted a centre stand temporarily as it's much easier to build the bike up that way. The TT models don't have centre stands fitted as the exhausts get in the way. The rear frame section was then bolted on, I find it much easier fitting the swinging arm first.

 

[SBD]

9/19ths UNF?

Please, please tell me that’s a typo!

Thanks for a very interesting thread & Merry Christmas

 

[Number 6]

Now for the forks. The first job was to make a new locating pin for the steering damper nut. The steering damper is very basic and uses a friction disc sandwiched between the frame and the bottom fork yoke, there is a large star-shaped spring which is tensioned by turning the alloy knob in the top yoke. Turning the damping up too much stops the steering from self-centering and makes the handling horrible. It looks nice but they are merely cosmetic, as a damper they are useless. I used a 1/4 BSF bolt to make the pin, I cut off the bolt head, turned down a spigot at one end to fit into the nut and then cut a slot in the other end with a hacksaw so it can be screwed in with a screwdriver. The purpose of the pin is to stop the nut turning when the damper is adjusted but leaves it free to slide up and down within the steering stem.





In place in the bottom yoke.





The fork stanchions were very tight in the bottom yoke, a light dressing with a flap wheel in the die grinder made them a perfect fit.





Fitting the stanchions into the yokes is just about impossible without the correct tool. Because the springs are external you are fighting against them whilst trying to get the stanchions far enough into the top yoke to get the top nut on. The tool comes with various adapters to fit all the common threads used on British bikes. The threaded plug screws into the inside of the stanchion and then the nut is wound down to pull the stanchion up into the top yoke. The pinch bolt in the bottom yoke can then be tightened to hold the stanchion in place and the tool can be removed.









Forks then filled with 190cc each of 30 weight fork oil and top nuts installed.

 

[Number 6]

9/19ths UNF?

Please, please tell me that’s a typo!

Thanks for a very interesting thread & Merry Christmas

Well spotted! Now amended, 9/16 UNF it is.

 

[Number 6]

Next, a bit of detailing. Modern bolts are very heavily marked with material specs and strength ratings, I prefer them to be plain finished and it's an easy job to just face off the markings in the lathe. Before and after....





Handlebars and rev counter bracket fitted and it's starting to look like a bike.

 

[BillWright]

Silly question time. I’ve only rebuilt two bikes from scratch, a T140 & T160, I bolted the engine into the frame first and then built the bike up from that. Mainly because I thought I’m bound to knock the frame otherwise.
Do you find it better the way your building the cycle parts up before installing the engine? I’ve got a 1970 TR6 to rebuild so have been following this thread with great interest.

 

[Number 6]

Silly question time. I’ve only rebuilt two bikes from scratch, a T140 & T160, I bolted the engine into the frame first and then built the bike up from that. Mainly because I thought I’m bound to knock the frame otherwise.
Do you find it better the way your building the cycle parts up before installing the engine? I’ve got a 1970 TR6 to rebuild so have been following this thread with great interest.

Not a silly question at all. There are several ways to do it and just because the factory installed complete engines doesn't mean that that's the best way for someone working on their own to do it. I always build the rolling chassis first. The engines are very heavy, especially the T150 and T160, if you put the engine into the frame first you've got an awful lot of weight to deal with as you build up the rest of the bike. With the twins I build up a short engine (no cylinder head, gearbox or primary drive) and then they're fairly manageable to lift into the frame. With the triples I don't even fit the pistons and barrels until the bottom end is in the frame because they are so bloody heavy. I put an old towel or coat across the lower frame rails and sit the engine on that to begin with, I've never had an issue with scratching the frame. Some people build the entire engine then lay it on it's side on the floor and drop the frame over it, that's ok but then you'll need two people to stand it up and get it off the floor unless you've got a block and tackle or similar. Also it's much easier to finish building the engine when it's held securely in the frame. Likewise when stripping the engine down I always leave it in the frame until I've got as much of it dismantled as possible, the less weight I have to lift the better.

 

[Posh Pete]

Great thread. Thanks for posting.

 

[Pluribus]

Just spent a pleasant hour reading this thread. Great skills, I am hugely impressed, and am looking forward to further instalments.

P

 

[Oldrat]

Great thread, loving the rebuild.

 

[Number 6]

Building the front wheel.

I get my spokes and rims (if needed) from Hagon, they're great quality and they always ask you to confirm exactly what size rim and hub you're building and for what model of bike. I've never had a problem with the parts they supply.



New stainless steel spindle and good quality wheel bearings. The wheel bearings are actually metric size which makes them reasonably priced, the Imperial size engine and gearbox bearings are now very expensive.





I'm using the original Triumph wheel rims, the front is a Jones WM2 19" the rear is a Dunlop WM3 18", I had them re-chromed by Castle Chrome in Birmingham, again excellent service and a top class job but not cheap! A new replica rim is cheaper than having one re-chromed but I prefer originality where possible.

The front hub was powder coated by Triple S, another top class business.
This is what use for wheelbuilding, it's a Sealey tyre-balancing stand.



The Triumph workshop manual is very detailed, even explaining the reason for the spoke pattern.



Rim and hub laid out ready for the first spoke set.



This is the right hand or brake side of the hub. Triumph also use the terms drive-side and timing side, mainly in regards to the engine but sometimes when referring to the whole bike. Drive-side is the chain side (left) and timing-side is where the timing gears are located (right).
These spokes are the 'outers' they have a 78 degree bend at the head end.



Next, the inner spokes (arrowed), these are the ones that are under tension when braking. They have a 100 degree bend. The wheel roates in the same direction as the arrows.



Then the left side spokes, these are all the same and are just straight spokes.



Time to get the wheel trued on the stand. This can take some time because you have to adjust three things all at the same time, concentricity, wobble and offset. It gets easier with practice, the trick is to adjust each spoke a litle bit at a time, if it all goes wrong just slacken them all off and start again. I don't use a dial guage, just a steel rule held close to the rim, it's surprising how small a gap the eye can see, accurate to within 0.010" Once it's true I trial fit it in the forks then adjust the offset to get it central.



The front wheel in the forks with the rim central between the fork legs. I then build the rear wheel so that the rim is inline with the front rim.

 

[SBD]

Never built a wheel, and chances are I won’t, but I’m interested to know how you get the right tension. You can achieve a concentric wheel that doesn’t swash with the spokes all one flat tight, or with them all squealing tight, provided the tensions are all the same in both cases.

Somewhere in between is presumably desirable!

Is it just the pitch of the “ting” as you spin the wheel and tap each spoke with a spanner/screwdriver/teaspoon?

Is there a “method”, or is it experience?

Cheers, & Merry Boxing Day!

 

[Greenman14]

I’ve built bicycle wheels, just using the feel and “ting” of the spokes but there are tension measuring devices that you can use. I’d recommend some type of tension meter, particularly for a beginner.

 

[Number 6]

Never built a wheel, and chances are I won’t, but I’m interested to know how you get the right tension. You can achieve a concentric wheel that doesn’t swash with the spokes all one flat tight, or with them all squealing tight, provided the tensions are all the same in both cases.

Somewhere in between is presumably desirable!

Is it just the pitch of the “ting” as you spin the wheel and tap each spoke with a spanner/screwdriver/teaspoon?

Is there a “method”, or is it experience?

Cheers, & Merry Boxing Day!

Exactly this. I tap the spokes with a screwdriver, it's quite musical! A nice 'ting' and all's good, if it's a dull 'tong' it's too slack, too high a pitch it's too tight.

 

[Number 6]

Now for the back wheel. There are four different spoke types, inner and outer drive side and inner and outer timing side. These are the drive side, the top spoke, <90 degrees is the outer, the bottom one, >90 deg is the inner.



The inner drive side of the hub has slight countersinks on every other hole where the inner spoke heads sit. Getting the first spoke right makes the rest straightforward.



Inner spokes fitted.



and then the outers. Then flip the wheel over, do the other side and true it up.




Tyres fitted. Feels like proper progress when the tyres go on. I asked the platers to not over-polish the rims prior to plating so as to keep the markings. They did a great job.

 

[Number 6]

The front brake plate had some deep scratches behind the brake arm.



I used a 120 grit flap wheel on the die grinder to carefully dress them out. Then hand sanded the whole plate with wet and dry in 400 then 800 and finally 1200 grit all done wet in a washing up bowl full of hot soapy water, changing the water between grit sizes. It took about 2 hours to get a decent finish.



Then polished with three different grades of polishing compound and appropriate mops in an electric drill. I bought a Performance Power drill from B+Q a few years ago specifically to use for polishing and other dirty jobs. It was only £25 and it's worked faultlessly despite being clamped in vices and a workbench and generally abused. Finish polish and I'm happy with it.







The brake shoes show very minimal wear and as they are rivetted linings I'll re-use them and see how they are. I would never re-use old bonded linings though, they can, and do come apart.

 

[bakerlonglegs]

Great build this, really enjoying it and learning things!! Thank you for documenting it

 

[Number 6]

Well 2025 didn't get off to a great start. Firstly I realised that I hadn't put in the two bolts that hold the lower rear mudguard bracket to the frame. With the swinging arm fitted it's impossible to get the bolts started, there just isn't room. The bracket itself is slotted so as long as the bolts are loosely in place the bracket can be removed/replaced. The screws go here, it looks like they're above the swinging arm but they're not, they're pretty much on the centre line of the spindle :-



So I removed the spindle to gain access then made up a couple of bolts to fit. This being a 1965 bike the cycle parts have mainly CEI threads which are usually 26 tpi. CEI threaded fasteners are quite expensive to buy due to the low volume of demand. I didn't want to have to order some bolts then wait for delivery, especially at this time of year. I have a few 5/16 CEI bolts in stainless steel so I cut two down to correct length.



Then I faced them off in the lathe and cut a chamfer to help the die get a start.



I used the lathe tailstock to keep the die square to the bolt whilst cutting the first few threads. This is stuff I learned 50 years ago, scary how time flies.





One finished, one more to thread.



Then just a case of re-installing the swinging arm and the mudguard bracket. I also made up the upper and lower rear shock mounting bolts at the same time so the back end of the frame is all together now.