A (better) sump guard???????

[Mark Hooton]

Guys, as I`ve already posted elsewhere I`ve got myself a new F800 Adv and I`m really smitten with it - it seems a more off road orientated bike than the R1200GS which I do also have and, horses for courses, it seems much more of an `adventure` bike than the 12 will ever be (but I also love my 12 )

Anyway, its not for me to say anything bad about anything but I have one observation and that's that I find the idea of a plastic sump guard on an Adventure bike (especially the more off road focused F800) a bit of a BMW mystery .

Bearing in mind some others do tend to agree with my observation I have `set to` in an effort to make a more rugged one hopefully in line with the very practical attitude of the bike.

Those who know me do know that I tend to tinker with stuff like this and I`m not that far up my own chuff to think I know it all - far from it, I often ask the lads what they think of my `tinkering` and I get good advice and it helps me make good stuff. I use all the gear I make so its not as if the good advice is falling on deaf ears of a chinaman on a bag of rice a week churning out mass produced stuff - my tinkering is made in Britain and I really get very proud over what I do so any good advice is oh sooooo appreciated.

Anyway, unlike the 12 stuff I kinda figured that not only should the F800 have a more robust sump guard than plastic (wtf, I still can`t get my head round it - cost mebbe ) but I`ve also kinda guessed that it doesn`t have to be a farkle as such, rather more focused on doing a job. End of!

So, here is a couple of images of my first prototype - I`ve already decided to lose the top bit (ringed in red) as it serves no significant purpose and only adds to the weight. The guard is not a `Expedition grade` but nor will it be priced anywhere near as much. rather its designed to serve only one purpose. To protect (but not ott). I`ve also included an image of the 12 sump guard so you can see the extra designwork that has gone into making it look nice - as I said, the F800 doesn`t seem to be a bike which is interested in `nice` rather `purposeful`. (I have considered extending the front up but once again I`ve tried to go for a balance and offer better protection than the plastic `thing` but not going too mad - it has to be affordable too.

It will be made of stainless steel and then powdercoated in black. Stainless steel is obviously much more expensive but if I use cheaper mild steel and the paint cracks it goes rusty (like all the black racks and engine bars I used to buy in the 80`s..........) whereas stainless doesn`t rust.

it also fits directly onto existing mounting points!

Anyway any kind thoughts by way of positive advice will most deffo be appreciated!

mark
www.cymarcbikeparts.co.uk

[/url][/IMG]

[/url][/IMG]

and the 12 farkley version........shiny eh?

[/url][/IMG]

[/url][/IMG]

and in black showing the standard of finish to be expected on the F800 guard (I sprayed the prototype...............)

[/url][/IMG]

 

[Nutty]

Looks good Mark. Where's the sump guard for the new LC?

 

[JayC]

I made my own last year for my F8, only I chose to use aluminium due to it's lightweight.
I don't understand why you would use st/st and then paint it?

As with many other designs on the market I also chose to go for oil filter protection with mine, it just makes sense. The filter was also accessible for replacement without having to remove the sump guard.

Finally, I made mine flat bottomed. That's to say the fixings were recessed inside the plate. Yours will suffer damage on the threads if they catch rocks or other hard surfaces which will then make removal very difficult.

To consider, but choosing not to make it taller at the front, does suggest to me that aesthetics are more important to you than function. Though in saying that, recessed fasteners would have been far more aesthetically pleasing.
I feel there comes a point when compromise has to have the final say. Introduce a little ugliness into the design and it will gain a beneficial function over form.

I work in a very different kind of machine shop to you and so whilst mine wasn't as aesthetically pleasing to the eye as your fabricated products, it was as tough as old boots!

 

[Fanum]

Looking good

There's one glaring thing that sticks out for me on first viewing of this picture Mark:

That chuffin' oil filter, exposed in exakkerly the sort of place that a medium sized rock, flicked up by the front wheel (and no, they're not all caught by the mudguard, DAMHIK ) would puncture it, which is a ride-ending event if not an engine ending event if it's not noticed fairly quickly.

Yes, I can hear your cogs whirring and you're thinking that although it will be fairly easy to extend the cover (and probably find another mounting point to give structural strength to the top of it) but that would cause difficulties in changing the conveniently handy oil filter

Welll buddy, that's YOUR problem, not mine....all I'm doing is saying, loike

Seriously though......that was the first impression I got

FWIW, on my Landcruiser with a whopping great big bashguard underneath the chassis, there was a triangular plate that bolted onto the guard plate using domed bolt heads (so they lay flat and were less likely to get f'd up, rendering them a bastid tgo get undone).

All you had to do was undo two of the bolts, loosen the third and rotate the plate away, change the filter that was immediately above it and do it all up again.

Summat like that mebbe?

 

[Mark Hooton]

Looks good Mark. Where's the sump guard for the new LC?

Funnily enough I looked at my LC and thought I should make one!

Good to hear from you and I hope to see ya at the end of the month

 

[Mark Hooton]

I made my own last year for my F8, only I chose to use aluminium due to it's lightweight.
I don't understand why you would use st/st and then paint it?

As with many other designs on the market I also chose to go for oil filter protection with mine, it just makes sense. The filter was also accessible for replacement without having to remove the sump guard.

Finally, I made mine flat bottomed. That's to say the fixings were recessed inside the plate. Yours will suffer damage on the threads if they catch rocks or other hard surfaces which will then make removal very difficult.

To consider, but choosing not to make it taller at the front, does suggest to me that aesthetics are more important to you than function. Though in saying that, recessed fasteners would have been far more aesthetically pleasing.
I feel there comes a point when compromise has to have the final say. Introduce a little ugliness into the design and it will gain a beneficial function over form.

I work in a very different kind of machine shop to you and so whilst mine wasn't as aesthetically pleasing to the eye as your fabricated products, it was as tough as old boots!

I agree fully - recessed would be a better idea - I'll get on with it straight away. Aluminium? Another great idea - it doesn't have to be all stainless 'shiny' so I take that on board too thanks.

Extended at the front? Also a good idea.

All very valid points so its back to the drawing board - thanks

 

[Mark Hooton]

Looking good

There's one glaring thing that sticks out for me on first viewing of this picture Mark:

That chuffin' oil filter, exposed in exakkerly the sort of place that a medium sized rock, flicked up by the front wheel (and no, they're not all caught by the mudguard, DAMHIK ) would puncture it, which is a ride-ending event if not an engine ending event if it's not noticed fairly quickly.

Yes, I can hear your cogs whirring and you're thinking that although it will be fairly easy to extend the cover (and probably find another mounting point to give structural strength to the top of it) but that would cause difficulties in changing the conveniently handy oil filter

Welll buddy, that's YOUR problem, not mine....all I'm doing is saying, loike

Seriously though......that was the first impression I got

FWIW, on my Landcruiser with a whopping great big bashguard underneath the chassis, there was a triangular plate that bolted onto the guard plate using domed bolt heads (so they lay flat and were less likely to get f'd up, rendering them a bastid tgo get undone).

All you had to do was undo two of the bolts, loosen the third and rotate the plate away, change the filter that was immediately above it and do it all up again.

Summat like that mebbe?

Fekkin brill idea - consider that oil filter covered! Re the domed bolt heads I'm presuming you mean nut heads mate as with domed bolt heads there's no purchase to undo them (but bear in mind I am possibly just being thick and not understanding you correctly )

 

[(RIP) Miff]

I also thought it should cover the oil filter. What's the spam tin next to it?? Some sort of cooler? Would that benefit from some protection too??


Don't visit here often (if at all) as I don't own a GS other than a 1200.

 

[Mark Hooton]

I also thought it should cover the oil filter. What's the spam tin next to it?? Some sort of cooler? Would that benefit from some protection too??


Don't visit here often (if at all) as I don't own a GS other than a 1200.

Hiya miff geezer hope you are well.

Ta for your input - I'm gonna extend the front to cover the oil filter and apparently the 'thingy' to the left of it is some sort of heat exchanger but of course I stand to be corrected by much more knowledgable fellow tossers!

 

[Dave Ett]

That's the water cooled oil cooler, and yeah, hole that and the ride is over too.

I have a Metal Mule on mine, and it's a seriously beefy aluminium unit. The forward edge does protect the oil cooler and thingy, but I can't recall if it needs removing to get the filter off.

Consider that the bash plate isn't just to protect to bottom from rocks flicked up, but also to take the weight of the whole bike crashing down onto it when you drop into a wadi or whatever. I did quite a bit of belly pan surfing and the bash plate took all the abuse I threw at it with no complaints or damage.

One last pointer, make sure you can get the oil drain bolt out, and the oil can drain through a single hole - nothing worse than carefully positioning a catch tray, only to have the oil run across the plate and onto the floor next to the catch tray!

Good luck, reckon you'll have a cracker by the time we've all finished telling you how!

 

[Mark Hooton]

That's the water cooled oil cooler, and yeah, hole that and the ride is over too.

I have a Metal Mule on mine, and it's a seriously beefy aluminium unit. The forward edge does protect the oil cooler and thingy, but I can't recall if it needs removing to get the filter off.

Consider that the bash plate isn't just to protect to bottom from rocks flicked up, but also to take the weight of the whole bike crashing down onto it when you drop into a wadi or whatever. I did quite a bit of belly pan surfing and the bash plate took all the abuse I threw at it with no complaints or damage.

One last pointer, make sure you can get the oil drain bolt out, and the oil can drain through a single hole - nothing worse than carefully positioning a catch tray, only to have the oil run across the plate and onto the floor next to the catch tray!

Good luck, reckon you'll have a cracker by the time we've all finished telling you how!

Thanks for that and yes that's why I ask for the input - to make the best item coz I'm mostly too drunk or stupid to come up with something myself

Good idea about the oil hole but if the filter is covered, as kindly suggested, the whole thing will need to come off anyway

 

[JayC]

Mark, it wasn't pretty but it was certainly functional!

This is the bare one off item prior to painting and with the cutaway for the oil drain plug.
Note also the welded caps, counterbored on the underside for recessed fasteners.

The two 90* brackets with thru' bolt were for fastening to the front engine mount position to add the necessary strength to the raised section for the oil filter.
I would make certain to leave the left side raised to protect the pipes, though not too high.

 

[ralphy]

That chuffin' oil filter, exposed in exakkerly the sort of place that a medium sized rock, flicked up by the front wheel (and no, they're not all caught by the mudguard, DAMHIK ) would puncture it, which is a ride-ending event if not an engine ending event if it's not noticed fairly quickly.

Ditto this point.

I'm riding round northern Spain at the moment (650 Twin) and have had a sizeable dent put into the oil filter: no off-roading involved, just some debris from a pothole that I couldn't avoid and despite having a mudguard extender on the bike.

R

 

[JayC]

Have another read Mark.

As with many other designs on the market I also chose to go for oil filter protection with mine, it just makes sense. The filter was also accessible for replacement without having to remove the sump guard.

Thanks for that and yes that's why I ask for the input - to make the best item coz I'm mostly too drunk or stupid to come up with something myself

Good idea about the oil hole but if the filter is covered, as kindly suggested, the whole thing will need to come off anyway

 

[Bayman]

I have the BMW bash plate and that is much higher at the front, protects the oil filter and other "thingy" quite well. It is sturdy and fairly beefy, maybe overly heavy, but I am no expert

 

[Fanum]

Re the domed bolt heads I'm presuming you mean nut heads mate as with domed bolt heads there's no purchase to undo them (but bear in mind I am possibly just being thick and not understanding you correctly )

Dome headed Alan bolts, sorry.

Basically anything that is less likely to pick up crap or weeds from the undergrowth etc

Same with the four under the pan itself.......I'd put domed alans on there as well.....a flint bashing the corner off a hex bolt head can make them a mofo to undo

EDIT.....

Note also the welded caps, counterbored on the underside for recessed fasteners.

That's even better......little chance of a countersunk flush bolt head getting mangled

On the 'ideal' wish list, the allan key size would be the most common for the model of bike.....prollt 6 mill?

 

[SteveT]

Made my own not long after getting my bike over 2 years ago . . . .

Here it is un-painted . . . .

Knocked up out of some alloy plate I had laying about

I too decided that the oil filter & cooler needed protection, and after seeing the TT effort, I combined a sump cover and filter / cooler cover into the same item, using the original mounting points for ease. I created some recesses for the original lower nuts to hide in, out of the way of those nasty rocks. Since the pictures were taken two years ago I have removed an area of plate from either side to allow relatively easy access to the front moutning bolt and nut.

It's taken a fair pounding over past two years as well. Just last month it collected several large dents from some chunky rocks whilst slithering round Galloway forest.

SteveT

 

[Dean]

the F800 doesn`t seem to be a bike which is interested in `nice` rather `purposeful`.


it also fits directly onto existing mounting points!

It's looking nice and it is good to see something different

I agree with the points made by others the recessed nuts, not protruding for obvious reasons......




They do get some crap in them so getting it off now and then is just routine maintenance.... (got to protect that engine paint and keep an eye on it)






You can see above the extra fixing point used with the long bolt, adds more stability and sharing the impacts with the other 4 fixings
below, yes agreed I would want the filter / cooler protected





for example purposes only the above is the BMW peddled by Touratech (powder coated black)


I like the holes, it adds purpose and its striking, not sure about to many slots looks weaker......

 

[Mark Hooton]

Mark, it wasn't pretty but it was certainly functional!

This is the bare one off item prior to painting and with the cutaway for the oil drain plug.
Note also the welded caps, counterbored on the underside for recessed fasteners.

The two 90* brackets with thru' bolt were for fastening to the front engine mount position to add the necessary strength to the raised section for the oil filter.
I would make certain to leave the left side raised to protect the pipes, though not too high.

You are right pretty it isn't but it appears 100% functional and that is what IMHO I think the bike is all about - some great points, thanks. Let's see what I can come up with........

 

[Mark Hooton]

Ditto this point.

I'm riding round northern Spain at the moment (650 Twin) and have had a sizeable dent put into the oil filter: no off-roading involved, just some debris from a pothole that I couldn't avoid and despite having a mudguard extender on the bike.

R

Yes it's a good point and I hope you manage to finish ya ride safely