A (better) sump guard???????

[Mark Hooton]

Have another read Mark.

I see, I'm sorry - I just presumed that the filter could not be accessed with the guard fittedn

 

[Mark Hooton]

Dome headed Alan bolts, sorry.

Basically anything that is less likely to pick up crap or weeds from the undergrowth etc

Same with the four under the pan itself.......I'd put domed alans on there as well.....a flint bashing the corner off a hex bolt head can make them a mofo to undo

EDIT.....




That's even better......little chance of a countersunk flush bolt head getting mangled

On the 'ideal' wish list, the allan key size would be the most common for the model of bike.....prollt 6 mill?

This or button head socket screws (dome shape) are the ideal answer however its a male thread which reaches down from the sump so I am kind of thinking that a recessed hole is the way to go as suggested by fanum

But with that said I can see a couple of examples where a good alternative works well too!

 

[JayC]

This or button head socket screws (dome shape) are the ideal answer however its a male thread which reaches down from the sump so I am kind of thinking that a recessed hole is the way to go as suggested by JayC

But with that said I can see a couple of examples where a good alternative works well too!

Fixed.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Mark, it wasn't pretty but it was certainly functional!

This is the bare one off item prior to painting and with the cutaway for the oil drain plug.
Note also the welded caps, counterbored on the underside for recessed fasteners.

The two 90* brackets with thru' bolt were for fastening to the front engine mount position to add the necessary strength to the raised section for the oil filter.
I would make certain to leave the left side raised to protect the pipes, though not too high.

Jay's looks the best I've seen so far, functional and strong and nicely executed

The others look a bit flimsy for 200kg of bike smashing down on them

After all, that's what a sumpguard is for, isn't it?

Otherwise it's just a 'stone deflector' and NOT a sumpguard

 

[Mark Hooton]

Jay's looks the best I've seen so far, functional and strong and nicely executed

The others look a bit flimsy for 200kg of bike smashing down on them

After all, that's what a sumpguard is for, isn't it?

Otherwise it's just a 'stone deflector' and NOT a sumpguard

Yes I agree - I`ve been back to the drawing board and redesigned it to incorporate the very kind opinions being:

1. Recessed fastener heads (just like what Jay suggested).
2. Extended the front guard (as several suggested)
3. Added a bracket to strengthen the front (just like Jay`s)

Just got to tig it together and will photo it and post it tonight to see if theres any further good suggestions.

Only one question I have - I feel that 2mm stainless (my weapon of choice) albeit more expensive than ali is better than ali (its stronger and more wear resistant but possibly a little heavier) but I`m open to suggestions from fellow tossers who know better

 

[Mark Hooton]

with the suggested mods................

Guys the first amendment was to recess the fastener heads into the sump guard itself, this is an external image of this

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Here`s an internal shot - its not pretty but its along the same lines as Jayc`s

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Another suggestion which I`ve taken on board is extending the front to cover the filter etc. I agree, it doesn`t look pretty whatsoever but the general suggestions seem to be along the lines of function rather than looking pretty.

There`s also a bracket (you can see the holes for it) which fits behind the extended front bit to give it extra support.

So, what do we think guys? Am I going in the right direction? Btw its even uglier than what it should be as its just a rough prototype so please understand - I normally don`t produce such rough stuff!

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I just don`t know if it should be 5mm thick ali or 2mm thick stainless.........................

 

[JayC]

Mark, good to see the recessed fasteners

I used 4mm aluminium, plenty substantial for the purpose. You could dump the wheels and stunt surf down a cobbled high street again and again on 4mm plate 'cos it ain't gonna hole or dent very easily.

Regarding the rest of your guard, I still feel you have nowhere near enough protection. The headers are totally exposed!
Also, as I mentioned before, I would be inclined to raise the protection level along the right side to the same height, or just below the top run of the exhaust.
The front of the guard needs to be a wrap around design, meaning both sides and front are joined.

 

[Mark Hooton]

Mark, good to see the recessed fasteners

I used 4mm aluminium, plenty substantial for the purpose. You could dump the wheels and stunt surf down a cobbled high street again and again on 4mm plate 'cos it ain't gonna hole or dent very easily.

Regarding the rest of your guard, I still feel you have nowhere near enough protection. The headers are totally exposed!
Also, as I mentioned before, I would be inclined to raise the protection level along the right side to the same height, or just below the top run of the exhaust.
The front of the guard needs to be a wrap around design, meaning both sides and front are joined.

Ok Ali it is and back to the drawing board to protect those headers! I think it's gonna end up as an expedition standard guard - not a bad thing!

It's gonna take a wee bit of time to get the geometry right around the headers.........

Thanks for the opinion (and everyone else's ) as you can see I take serious notice!

 

[Bem]

great idea to rope in the team for this one Mark,I know you will come up with a quality product.
I`m in!

 

[Mark Hooton]

great idea to rope in the team for this one Mark,I know you will come up with a quality product.
I`m in!

Well we will see mate - with a sense of humility I'd be bollocksed without the help, the difficult thing is converting the suggestions into something which is as good as it can get

Tbh I never intended to go down the "all encompassing" route as I believe only a few of us will actually put something "expedition standard" to full use but there's been so much positive feedback I'd feel a tw@t if I didn't give it my best shot.

And I've never worked in Ali either.........

But anyway thanks for the kind words of support - I hope I don't disappoint ya

 

[Mark Hooton]

Bloody geometry!

Well, please ignore the very rough-ness of it. I`m trying to hit the last target and that's the one of more protection for the headers and the front of the engine - I`m kinda thinking I`ve just about done it.

It looks like the Bride of Frankenstein but as several kindly folk has said "its not meant to look pretty, rather do a job"

I`ve also managed to get a very very snug fit - indeed I think I`ve managed to actually increase ground clearance a smidgin` over the OEM sump guard.

And the protection now clearly covers the oil filter and heat exchanger jobbie - tour ending if damaged!

If I`m about there then all I have to work on is the geometry to fill up the gaps and I might actually be able to make something that hits the target!

As yet its going to be stainless steel - ali is simply a bridge too far at this time but I can`t see it affecting the strength, if anything it will be stronger than ali.

And excuse the fixing bolts - they are just there to hold it on - the final fasteners are recessed into the base.

yes you can still see the headers but the uncovered parts are sooo far up the bike that I can`t see very many circumstances where a boulder would get up that far between the wheel and the front of the bike.

So, anything I`ve missed ???

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[Micky]

The BMW sumpguard, as made for them by Touratech does the job great Mark, so something of a similar design .... nice and simple

BUT I do believe they no longer use the front mounting bracket to the two lugs on the front lower engine sump casting ..... these can break off quite easily, with possible disastrous consequences if the sump is holed

 

[Mark Hooton]

The BMW sumpguard, as made for them by Touratech does the job great Mark, so something of a similar design .... nice and simple

BUT I do believe they no longer use the front mounting bracket to the two lugs on the front lower engine sump casting ..... these can break off quite easily, with possible disastrous consequences if the sump is holed

Hi pal and thank you for your valued input, I hope you are well.

Yes, a very good point and it seems that I have `drifted` into that basic shape but its not simple - or isn`t to me - its taken me many many attempts to get this far and I`m still no where near, there's lots of gaps to fill.

Good point about the front lug - I`d originally left it off but all other kindly folk have suggested that its kept in - If I can take it out and use the side build as the strength to support the front upstand I certainly will as what you are saying does make sense. Thank you.

Btw ear plugs = awesome. I haven`t heard Jackie say anything for ages

I`m also keen to keep my stuff reasonable priced - I can`t charge how long it actually takes, no one will buy it - how much does TT charge for their sump guard?

 

[Micky]

Hi pal and thank you for your valued input, I hope you are well.

I`m also keen to keep my stuff reasonable priced - I can`t charge how long it actually takes, no one will buy it - how much does TT charge for their sump guard?

All well here Mark ... over 98,000 mile on the F800GS now

The BMW (Touratech) guard will be over £200 by now I guess

Keep it simple, keep it strong ... mine took a right bashing on the Stella Alpine Rally last month

Not too many holes in it neither ... I ground to a halt under armed escort in to Quetta a couple of years ago, water boiling out everywhere

A small stone had got lodged in the fan housing and stopped the fan from working
Wunderlich had given me a sumpguard (amongst many other bits) and that had loads of holes in too ....

 

[mattlong640]

Hi Mark

I've been looking for a guard like this for some time - I don't want the full expedition spec, and this one looks perfect. If I did want the full expedition complete bottom engine case cover there are quite a few on the market.

Where I was first attracted to your products was the lightweight look of what you were doing for the big GS (that why I emailed you a few months ago to see if you were considering doing anything for F800/700/650 - and now you are - result!!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cymarcbikeparts/9553730877/

I mostly want something to keep off stone chips, and protect the oil filter and spam tin.

I would have one of these off you tomorrow.....for the right price!! And most likely in 2mm stainless, please

Matt

 

[Mark Hooton]

well there you go!

Hi Mark

I've been looking for a guard like this for some time - I don't want the full expedition spec, and this one looks perfect. If I did want the full expedition complete bottom engine case cover there are quite a few on the market.

Where I was first attracted to your products was the lightweight look of what you were doing for the big GS (that why I emailed you a few months ago to see if you were considering doing anything for F800/700/650 - and now you are - result!!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cymarcbikeparts/9553730877/

I mostly want something to keep off stone chips, and protect the oil filter and spam tin.

I would have one of these off you tomorrow.....for the right price!! And most likely in 2mm stainless, please

Matt

Hi there well as it happens I am well on the way to the final design - which will be in 2mm stainless - I hope to post something sooooon so if you keep an eye on the thread it should be on soon!

 

[brixtonchris]

I definitely would have the guard coming around the the headers along the bottom, i have been dismounted by a bike and a rock and had that part sit on me leg, didn't know i could wriggle so quickly.

 

[Mark Hooton]

I definitely would have the guard coming around the the headers along the bottom, i have been dismounted by a bike and a rock and had that part sit on me leg, didn't know i could wriggle so quickly.

Well it does extend up over the headers but I haven`t got carried away - I`ve noticed that what one geezer wants is not what another wants so I try to hit a compromise between no protection and kicking the ass out of it.

Its taken several weeks to incorporate the suggestions of everyone yet get a compromise for all. Its nearly an endure standard guard but not quite!

I hope to have the final one made and posted on the thread within a few days

 

[Mark Hooton]

Final design

Hi Mark

I've been looking for a guard like this for some time - I don't want the full expedition spec, and this one looks perfect. If I did want the full expedition complete bottom engine case cover there are quite a few on the market.

Where I was first attracted to your products was the lightweight look of what you were doing for the big GS (that why I emailed you a few months ago to see if you were considering doing anything for F800/700/650 - and now you are - result!!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cymarcbikeparts/9553730877/

I mostly want something to keep off stone chips, and protect the oil filter and spam tin.

I would have one of these off you tomorrow.....for the right price!! And most likely in 2mm stainless, please

Matt

Well, here it is Matt. Its out of 2mm and a bit `overkill` but I`ve tried not to make it too ugly or too `fully expedition` standard covering everything back to the `zorst

I`ve made it `height adjustable` - some lads have said they want it close and tight up to the bike whereas others have wanted some `crumple zone` (I always try to listen and accommodate as many ideas as I can as usually everyone knows better than me) so I would also supply fittings which allow it to `stand off` the original fasteners by either 5mm or 20mm depending on preference.

Price wise I expect it to compete with the very best out there but its far from cheap and cheerful - making them individually and not mass produced is very expensive but I don`t try to charge anymore than the best stuff out there at the moment - expect around £160 inc the dreaded.

Btw I think you could take a hammer to it and it would survive.

 

[Mark Hooton]

And here is the link with price and more blurb

http://www.cymarcbikeparts.co.uk/f8...height-adjustable-enduro-sump-guard-117-p.asp

thank you to everyone for all the input and suggestions - I believe it helps me make something as best as it can be