Another step forwards in solving the problem...now, Lambda sensors info please?
- Thread starter Fanum
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See my Air Intake Temperature Sensor thread for a bit of info on resistance versus temperature, and the oil temp sensor does provide an input to the Motronic but I suspect its revelvance is minimal
Fanum
Toubab
That's the key bit DW....whatever the root cause of this is, it's not ( i think) going to be thrown off by some +/- 20% readings.....unless it's all of them happening at the same time, which has been pretty much rules out by the perfect run back for 80+ miles after the injector swap, it's going to be one component or wiring connection or factor that's out, I suspect.
Tracking down which one it is though, that's a different matter
Tomorrow I'm going to swap the TPS over.
I've got nothing to lose
Fanum
Toubab
Are the compressions, valve clearances still ok?
IMHO it's too variable to be mechanical....unless it's timing chain tensioner?
Checkout post #11. Just for peace of mind.
True, but it never got better even after that!
I think off the top of my head we have similar injectors to lots of the Mercs/VAG, I know they looked identical to the SMART injectors. Might be cheaper as they go for about £5 on eBay
Fanum
Toubab
I've experienced TPS boxes knocked awry several times off road, and it's an instant and discernible effect......even if there isn't a MM with the group, a bit of wiggling and an allan key tweaking around can get the bike running adequately to get back to base.......this isn't that, although perhaps if it's an electrical contact issue inside that little matchbox, it could exhibit itself like this
I'm going to change it tomorrow regardless
Not sure about compression/valve clearances today.......I don't have a compression tester here, I rented a quick go on the bloke 'round the corner's last time, and I'm loathe to discover that they have changed that much in the distance between Roehampton and Harwich since they were last definitely set.
The implications of that would be too much right now, so I shall convince myself that it's something else until I have no other choice
can't you get a set of used components and a spare loom and set them up in parallel on the bike ?
i say you - i mean you and mr steppers....
i say you - i mean you and mr steppers....
I agree with this.
The intermittent nature of the fault points to an electrical issue - it wouldn't surprise me if it was something as simple as a duff connector or earth junction.
But as you say, identifying it is another matter...
Then again, I hope the replacement TPS fixes it
So, with a few hours to mess around today and Charlie the spanner monkey to help, I got stuck in again.
First of all though I'd walked a couple of miles to the petrol station to grab a jerry of fuel, as all the starting attempts the other day had left it dry
Chug chug chug.....cough splutter splutter.....and into life she burst...This is with new lambda, Y piece and pretty much straight through remus.
Gave her a good ten seconds for the oil to get around, then she was revving sweetly, crackling a bit at the 'zorst end but I can live with that.......held at 2k revs for 30 secs, fine, 3k revs, fine, 4k revs, fine, and a few seconds at 6k and also fine......not fluffing down as before, holding revs nicely.....So we finsish off the bracketry jigsaw and manage to make everything line up, and put the left hand pannier back on.......fire here up again and yay, situation still the same.
Charlie and I get some kit on and I take bike off centre stand ten mins later, fire her up and ....spluff spluff spluff
WTF!!!
Ok, back onto centre stand, start up (with difficulty), rev it a bit, raise and lower side stand just in case a fractionally intermittent short is happening there.....wiggle the wiring, thinking all the time "I'll never get away with telling the guys it was all down to a side stand fault if this works, but I don't care!" but the side stand switch is making no difference....
Bike off again, helmet off, tried her again...springs into life, revs as before, sounding sweet, so off we go round the block immediately.
No good.....as soon as it's in gear and pulls slightly to get away, back to spluffing.....although Charlie and I agree that it's a good 30-40% better than before.
Filled up with fresh fuel to the brim, 'just in case', then a 2 mile circuit including some fast road, where top speed in 6th is again established to be 60mph.
It still feels like it 'wants' to go, if you know what I mean, and from 0-20, it is almost right.....it's better, but not enough to make me want to ride, and certainly no pleasure in it(made some schoolgirls scream though as it backfired like a beauty on the overun as we spluttered past them
I've dug out the spare TPS sensor, but I haven't put it on yet....that'll be coming soon, but the positive thing is that the 'zorst/lambda swap has made differnce, in the right direction
There is a big difference in TPS working to rev the bike when its parked on the stand compared with when trying to ride the bike down the road.
The TPS is just a variable resistor, easily capable of working only in one part of its range................... think volume control on a music system, all OK at low volume but all crackly when trying to listen at high volume. If it were a music system you'd know exactly what to try.............. a squirt of cleaner into the volume control (TPS) or change it for the spare you've got.
Fanum
Toubab
Here we go again........
Took off the TPS, replaced with 'spare'.
Tweaked it to approx correct setting by hand, started bike, ran nicely.
Whipped out Multimeter, frigged about with some nice steel core wire and set output to .365 v.......
Reconnected properly, fired up, sounds good......Test ride around block......a noticeable improvement on yesterday, accelerates almost smoothly if very light on throttle up to 60, but at any more than 1/4 throttle opening, fluffs down again.
Max speed now up to 70.
There's a definite clattering from the WRONG side though.......very hard to pin down but possibly from throttle body area.....pronounced in first second of overun.
I recorded it but I can't get the recording on here.
Next step for tomorrow is going to be to take apart right hand throttle body, strip it down and clean anything that I can clean with a toothbrush and WD or similar.
Getting there
Took off the TPS, replaced with 'spare'.
Tweaked it to approx correct setting by hand, started bike, ran nicely.
Whipped out Multimeter, frigged about with some nice steel core wire and set output to .365 v.......
Reconnected properly, fired up, sounds good......Test ride around block......a noticeable improvement on yesterday, accelerates almost smoothly if very light on throttle up to 60, but at any more than 1/4 throttle opening, fluffs down again.
Max speed now up to 70.
There's a definite clattering from the WRONG side though.......very hard to pin down but possibly from throttle body area.....pronounced in first second of overun.
I recorded it but I can't get the recording on here.
Next step for tomorrow is going to be to take apart right hand throttle body, strip it down and clean anything that I can clean with a toothbrush and WD or similar.
Getting there
I will say this only Vunce
Try changing the hall sensor
I have one that fucked about like this for ages and ages
and it turned out it was
DO NOT HOLD the Plug with the ignition on
DAMHIK
Try changing the hall sensor
I have one that fucked about like this for ages and ages
and it turned out it was
DO NOT HOLD the Plug with the ignition on
DAMHIK
Fanum
Toubab
I will say this only Vunce
Try changing the hall sensor
I have one that fucked about like this for ages and ages
and it turned out it was
DO NOT HOLD the Plug with the ignition on
DAMHIK
Hall Sensor is new.
It also doesn't fit with some of the previous symptoms
STUBBS
undead
Hall Sensor is new.
It also doesn't fit with some of the previous symptoms
is it new new or ebay / secondhand new
Fanum
Toubab
is it new new or ebay / secondhand new
I don't know.
It was fitted as part of the renovation.
Brand new? Or New when you got the bike back?? Did you not have a flat battery and try to get it going with a low battery ???
I have a theory that most of these HES fail after a low battery episode
The one I had got it's tps changed that sorta helped then it had injectors changed and that helped and then it didn't and then it got a fuel pump and that helped then it didn't Basically All the mechanical and electrical articles were right or within tolerance Coil Leads and plugs were swapped from a known good runner
In the end it was the HES Before he got the bikes someone had fitted the engine but the battery was goosed
I am well sure they burned out the HES
Okay according to the calculation Power = Volts x Amps
Example you need 900 watts to turn the starter @13.5 volts That = 66 amps
NOW take it that the battery has dropped to 10.5 volts the amperage is now 85 amps (as it takes the same amount of power to turn the starter i.e. 900w)
A BIG difference for a drop of 3 volts? Turning it over with a reduced charge in the battery puts a helluva current surge thru the electrics!
P.S. the day I found out it was HES to be sure to be sure was the day I was checking for spark and the ign was on and I was changing the plug for a new one to set back on the brake pedal (for ground) and the bastard started sparking all on it's own
Same thing happened with Chooned in's R1100GS another fecker fried me!
Neither of them followed the HES symptoms The last bike was almost as if it was 8 stroking instead of 4 stroking You'd almost think it was blowing back thru the throttles
I have a theory that most of these HES fail after a low battery episode
The one I had got it's tps changed that sorta helped then it had injectors changed and that helped and then it didn't and then it got a fuel pump and that helped then it didn't Basically All the mechanical and electrical articles were right or within tolerance Coil Leads and plugs were swapped from a known good runner
In the end it was the HES Before he got the bikes someone had fitted the engine but the battery was goosed
I am well sure they burned out the HES
Okay according to the calculation Power = Volts x Amps
Example you need 900 watts to turn the starter @13.5 volts That = 66 amps
NOW take it that the battery has dropped to 10.5 volts the amperage is now 85 amps (as it takes the same amount of power to turn the starter i.e. 900w)
A BIG difference for a drop of 3 volts? Turning it over with a reduced charge in the battery puts a helluva current surge thru the electrics!
P.S. the day I found out it was HES to be sure to be sure was the day I was checking for spark and the ign was on and I was changing the plug for a new one to set back on the brake pedal (for ground) and the bastard started sparking all on it's own
Same thing happened with Chooned in's R1100GS another fecker fried me!
Neither of them followed the HES symptoms The last bike was almost as if it was 8 stroking instead of 4 stroking You'd almost think it was blowing back thru the throttles
Hall Sensor is new.
It also doesn't fit with some of the previous symptoms
