b***ocks!!!

[h0wz3r]

Doing some service work on my GS this evening and thought I'd adjust the handlebars as they've been bugging me. No problem I thought, just loosen the 4 bolts that hold the clamp, rotate the bars and re-tighten.

Being a stickler for detail I thought I'd do the job properly and tighten the bolts back up to their proper torque values which according to the Haynes manual is 28Nm.

So I set the torque wrench to the correct value and proceeded to tighten the bolts back up. All went well, tightening each bolt in turn gradually (top, bottom, top etc) until I got to the 3rd bolt when suddenly the wrench went loose in my hand. I knew what had happened straight away, bugger I've stripped the thread!

Took the bolt out and there was loose thread wrapped around the bottom third of it. B***OCKS!!!

Sorted it for now by using another bolt that's slightly longer than the one I took out but I don't think it's the bolt that's the problem as it seemed fine. I seem to have stripped the thread in the top yoke where it screws into which would be VERY expensive to replace, not to mention labour costs if I had it done by someone else.

What would you recommend in this situation?

 

[D6]

timesert,cheap,easy and can be stronger than the original thread

 

[Owen Snell]

Put a thread insert in and be more careful with the torque wrench in future

 

[h0wz3r]

Put a thread insert in and be more careful with the torque wrench in future

Ummm OK but you're talking to a complete nonse here. I can work out what a thread insert is but where do I get one from and how do I put it into the yoke?

For now I don't think it'll be a problem with the longer bolt replacing the other one. It just looks a bit unsightly as it's not smooth and shiny like the other 3 (it was a spare one I had when I replaced the bolts on my old bike for stainless ones)

I'll also trust my own judgement next time rather than relying on the torque wrench to give me a 'proper' value!

 

[PaulW]

No consolation but, on the 1200GSA, there are 2 different size bolts and the torque settings are
M10x90 36Nm
M8x30 16Nm

Can't remember if 1200GS is the same???

Cheaper torque wrenches are crap towards their lower range - better to do it by feel as you said

Being a stickler for detail I thought I'd do the job properly and tighten the bolts back up to their proper torque values which according to the Haynes manual is 28Nm.

 

[Myke Rocks]

What would you recommend?

In a word or two: Commonsense.

I do not own a torque wrench. I use a mixture of experience & commonsense on every bolt I go to.

I would, seriously, suggest that you pay attention to the load you are putting on a wrench rather than blindly following instructions.

Experience leads to repeatability. OK, I have stripped threads in past years due to a lack of experience, but I did learn as I went along.

On this site I see an excessive reliance on torque wrenches rather than commonsense, with people asking for torque settings for handlebar switch clamp screws etc.

Myke.

 

[Ogmios]

funny you should say that...

... that was one of the first jobs i ever f*cked up on a Bike.

ever since then i do all 4 bolts to finger tight, then 1/4 turn more, each.
in this order;
top left
then bottom right.
top right
then bottom left.

then a couple of 'Gee hairs'* more all round.

*sorry - it's an Irish term with no equivalent measure on a torque wrench - but i think you get the drift.

 

[h0wz3r]

OK guys, I take the hint. Lesson learned as regards relying on the torque wrench and written instructions.

Back to the problem, however. I've done a bit of reading on these helicoil things but it seems fiddly, complicated and in my case buying expensive tools I'll probably never use again.

As I say, the replacement bolt I've used is slightly longer than the one it replaced and this seems to be ok. It's certainly tight enough. I'd have to source another bolt of the same or longer length that matches the other 3 but that can be arranged I'm sure.

Do you think I'd be safe leaving it like that or should I really do something about it? Don't want to take any risks with it being a rather critical part.

 

[Ogmios]

OK guys, I take the hint. ...
Do you think I'd be safe leaving it like that? Don't want to take any risks with it being a rather critical part.

the hints;
not chastising you / hope we helped.
personally regarding is it safe to leave - i work on the basis "if in doubt - chicken out". as you say it's kind of a crucial component .
mind you - i've vivid memories of a set of loose 'Bars slithering forwards in the mounts as i braked hard while mispending my youth on a Yam 100c.c. 'Jet Twin' heap. that was... entertaining.

helicoils;
i've always found (so far / touch wood etc) my local Bike shops have a lot more practice with them than me, and keep the most common sizes in stock.
(think about it; they f*ck up more threads than you and me ever will )
so - i'd leave the job to them.

good luck

 

[Myke Rocks]

Helicoils

Helicoils are singularly excellent, & easy to fit, but the cost of the special tap & set of helicoils for 1 thread is excessive. It would be cheaper to go to a local engine rebuilders or bike shop & let them do it. Under 10 mins from start to finish. (Including drinking tea)
Remember, after a helicoil is fitted, the torque capability goes up enormously, so a recurrance in that thread is most unlikely.
Myke

P.S. An old Engineering saying: The man who never made a mistake never made anything!

 

[D6]

http://www.timesert.com/html/faq.html
av a read,
cost 15 quid at the most to repair
wouldnt touch a helicoil over these,especially in alloy or on a sparkplug/oil bolt etc
even bmw approved

 

[h0wz3r]

Good advice from both of you guys, thanks. No offence taken at the 'hints' by the way, I'm just kicking myself for being so naive in the first place.

A helicoil sounds like a good solution, at least it means I won't have to buy a complete new upper fork yoke and I should be able to re-use the original bolt right?

Need to find a decent bike shop near me now that will do it for a minimum amount of cash. Don't know anywhere apart from dealers and I wouldn't be taking it there! I wouldn't want to attempt something like this myself anyway, I've done enough damage for one day.

Do you know of any good bike shops that would do something like this for me in the Huddersfield area?

 

[CliveS]

Helicoil is the answer. There is also a stainless steel one.
Now about the torque wrench. To torque a bolt you should do all bolts
in three stages, so to get to 28Nm start at 12 then 20 the 28. Never torque one bolt all the way it will pull the fitting out of plumb. Sorry if i am telling you how to suck eggs but just in case?

Safe Riding

 

[freeloader]

OK guys, I take the hint. Lesson learned as regards relying on the torque wrench and written instructions.

Back to the problem, however. I've done a bit of reading on these helicoil things but it seems fiddly, complicated and in my case buying expensive tools I'll probably never use again.

As I say, the replacement bolt I've used is slightly longer than the one it replaced and this seems to be ok. It's certainly tight enough. I'd have to source another bolt of the same or longer length that matches the other 3 but that can be arranged I'm sure.

Do you think I'd be safe leaving it like that or should I really do something about it? Don't want to take any risks with it being a rather critical part.

I'd say it's a bit iffy leaving it like that. Two questions:
How much longer is the replacement bolt than the original?
How much of the original thread is still undamaged, i.e., deeper than the original bolt reached?
I'd imagine that the depth of the thread in the yoke wouldn't be much deeper than it needed to be to suit the original bolt, hence I wouldn't expect there to be much spare thread - certainly not as much as the original bolt had to grip with.

 

[h0wz3r]

I'd say it's a bit iffy leaving it like that. Two questions:
How much longer is the replacement bolt than the original?
How much of the original thread is still undamaged, i.e., deeper than the original bolt reached?
I'd imagine that the depth of the thread in the yoke wouldn't be much deeper than it needed to be to suit the original bolt, hence I wouldn't expect there to be much spare thread - certainly not as much as the original bolt had to grip with.

That's what I would think. The replacement isn't that much longer than the original. It does appear to be secured tightly at the moment but at the same time I wouldn't trust it to be THAT secure.

I need to get it somewhere that will do the job for me. As I said it's just I don't know where. Don't want to tap it as having a larger bolt will look stupid so the only way is to get someone to helicoil or time-set it for me.

I daren't take it on the road in it's current state, least not long distances anyway.

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

I would rather pull out the thread while torquing it than have it let go on the road.

The clamp screws have been found loose by a number of folks and it seems wise to check them and to pull them up evenly. advice to pull them up stepwise (top, btm, top, btm) is good, because one takes load off the other as they pull up. I doubt anyone would tighten them to the required setting by hand only. It does feel very tight.

 

[GSmonkey]

Definately find a local non-franchise bike mechanic, he'll sort it in no time. I've a local bike mechanic who corrects all my DIY fcuk ups, somtimes for nowt eg. removing bolts that I've managed to mangle etc. Business as usual for these guys.

 

[Wapping]

h0wz3r, are you sure it's 28 Nm?

The torque setting's in the UKGSer link shows:

These descriptions and torque values (in Newton-Meters) are taken directly from the BMW REP-ROM for the 2005 model R1200GS.

Steel handlebars to fork bridge, M8 x 30 1st front, 2nd rear -> gap at rear only (as viewed in forward direction of travel)
21 Nm (15 ft-lbs)

Handlebar weight to handlebar, M12 x 1.5 x 80 Micro-encapsulated
21 Nm (15 ft-lbs)

Handlebar fitting to handlebar (perch), M5 x 20 8 Nm (6 ft-lbs)

Pivot screw, handlebar-fitting lever, M5 x 30 5 Nm (4 ft-lbs)


OK, I am not sure what vintage of 1200 you have but 28NM sounded high, at least to me, so I had a look.

 

[h0wz3r]

h0wz3r, are you sure it's 28 Nm?

The torque setting's in the UKGSer link shows:

These descriptions and torque values (in Newton-Meters) are taken directly from the BMW REP-ROM for the 2005 model R1200GS.

Steel handlebars to fork bridge, M8 x 30 1st front, 2nd rear -> gap at rear only (as viewed in forward direction of travel)
21 Nm (15 ft-lbs)

Handlebar weight to handlebar, M12 x 1.5 x 80 Micro-encapsulated
21 Nm (15 ft-lbs)

Handlebar fitting to handlebar (perch), M5 x 20 8 Nm (6 ft-lbs)

Pivot screw, handlebar-fitting lever, M5 x 30 5 Nm (4 ft-lbs)


OK, I am not sure what vintage of 1200 you have but 28NM sounded high, at least to me, so I had a look.

According to my Haynes manual (BMW twins - 2004 - 06), the handlebar clamp bolts should be tightened to 28Nm. I double-checked this morning and that is what it says. It does seem a very high setting, especialliy as equally crucial components such as the fork slider pinch bolts only require 25Nm?

My bike is a 2005 R1200GS so very 'vintage' where the 1200 GS line is concerned.

I'll go hunting for a local garage today / tomorrow to see who's willing to sort out my screw up (pun intended!) I just hope these helicoil things are as common as people are making out as I really don't want to have to use a bigger bolt.

 

[Owen Snell]

....I'll go hunting for a local garage today / tomorrow to see who's willing to sort out my screw up (pun intended!) I just hope these helicoil things are as common as people are making out as I really don't want to have to use a bigger bolt.....

If you're taking it in, get them to check the other threads as well - you might have stretched them.

A torque wrench is the same as any other tool, the torque setting is no substitute for experience. We have all made mistakes in the past, just take it as part of the learning process.

Remember, torque settings used to be given for critical fixings only where they had to be tightened to a specific tension to do the job - cylinder heads or where a gasket or seal needs a limited pressure on it. The use of a torque wrench for 90% of the fixings on the GS is completely unnecessary. Just do them up tight and check them again after a couple of rides out to see it they have come loose. You will soon get a feeling for what tight is!

Also be very aware that a lot of fixings on the GS are tapped into weaker materials like aluminium. This will take significantly less torque and so you have to be extra careful not to overtighten or cross the thread.

Finally, if you have a go at the insert yourself, the critical point is to drill out square and tap carefully. As you are only making an exisiting hole a bit bigger, the drill will tend to bind in the hole, so use a good drill and a sharp bit and be careful