GSMartin
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Not quite, Ducati bought by Audi, parent company Volkswagen, who could chip in a few €s to sort things out
Back again to BMW.
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Not quite, Ducati bought by Audi, parent company Volkswagen, who could chip in a few €s to sort things out
Thanks chaps.
Reading your posts they all seem to confirm the idea (mentioned by EW) that you can get a good one or you can get a bad one. I guess that's the problem; every one should be a good one.
I was out on the GS today and thinking that perhaps it's whenever a factory tries something new that it runs into teething problems. The boxer design has been around for many years (as far back as WW2 and before that) so the engine should be good; so is it the "newer ideas" that BMW developed that are the source of the problems. Don't know. Certainly, hanging back for a 2015 or 2016 model might be a good idea. But life passes, and waiting isn't always an option.
As for the MTS, well it is such a new concept for Ducati. The engine is kind of old, kind of new, but everything else is "new". Everyone says the new "twin spark, Skyhook" bikes are a leap forwards, so maybe they're learning from their mistakes. Old ones still command a very high price second hand though.
If BMW ever bring out the S1000R engine in the GS frame in 2015, offer it in blood red and give it a Multi looking facelift, the battle lines will well and truly be drawn.
Reading your posts they all seem to confirm the idea (mentioned by EW) that you can get a good one or you can get a bad one. I guess that's the problem; every one should be a good one.
I was out on the GS today and thinking that perhaps it's whenever a factory tries something new that it runs into teething problems. The boxer design has been around for many years (as far back as WW2 and before that) so the engine should be good; so is it the "newer ideas" that BMW developed that are the source of the problems. Don't know. Certainly, hanging back for a 2015 or 2016 model might be a good idea. But life passes, and waiting isn't always an option.
As for the MTS, well it is such a new concept for Ducati. The engine is kind of old, kind of new, but everything else is "new". Everyone says the new "twin spark, Skyhook" bikes are a leap forwards, so maybe they're learning from their mistakes. Old ones still command a very high price second hand though.
If BMW ever bring out the S1000R engine in the GS frame in 2015, offer it in blood red and give it a Multi looking facelift, the battle lines will well and truly be drawn.
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As someone who has owned 4 gs's and 4 ducatis , imo you are simply looking at Italian flair but flawed design and function, versus german efficiency and practicality.
Had an ohlins shod multistrada 1200s, it was great but i had a few niggles and ive found my local duc main dealer (Ducati leeds) to be a bunch of amateurs. I took it in for warranty work and they scratched the bike frame and then polished the same matt painted frame. Enthusiastic but clueless.
My 12 month old 1098S from Ducati Manchester broke down in the motorway services on the ride home (immobiliser fault)
My 748 had a routine service bill of over £1500 quid in the receipts.
Youve gotta be in it for the ride with a ducati, but when it all clicks theres nowt better....you can feel that v twin rumble pulsating through your chest.
I'd probably have another if i wasn't doing big miles, but you have to go into it eyes wide open.
You are right the v twin wound up puts a smile on your face and right again with the service costs of to Spain and portugal July August when we get back belts and tyres to do cost £1000 ouch !!! could be the time to change will try the new bmw and the latest multi nothing else seems to catch my attention, if the £££ to change are ok will change the bike I normally change every 3 years. Or keep the multi and buy a 1150 adv best of both worlds.
alp
Registered user
This is a good topic and we have some posts from people who own or have owned both Ducatis and BMWs and are therefore able to talk from experience and give us their thoughts.
I've had 3 Ducatis (including a Multistrada) and 2 BMWs (one was a '13 GS) and to be honest I had way more faults with the 2 BMWs than with the Ducatis (by the way I've never had an electrical fault on a Ducati!). I'm not going to list the faults on both types since we are well aware of them but why did I change from the GS LC?.
I gave up the GS LC after summer last year since I was finishing Euro touring and the GS was plain 'orrible/embarassing in city traffic (clutch didn't always bite at the same point/where's neutral/crashy gearchange) and currently have a Ducati again. It was a breath of fresh air when I changed back to Ducati to be able to find neutral while waiting at traffic lights /silent change from neutral /slick gear changes. Yes the 1200 V twin engine is also glorious. However, the full spec GS LC was a stunning machine while touring and hooning through the alpine passes and the cruise control on long distance motorway runs and I highly recommend it for touring, in fact I'm doing the BMW Garmisch Fest again this year and have gone this time for a rented bike from the BMW tour company running the trip, just couldn't resist the temptation to go again and this way I'm using both brands to their strengths.
Conclusion - Have fun on your Ducati on local blasts and rent a BMW for the long distance stuff.
I've had 3 Ducatis (including a Multistrada) and 2 BMWs (one was a '13 GS) and to be honest I had way more faults with the 2 BMWs than with the Ducatis (by the way I've never had an electrical fault on a Ducati!). I'm not going to list the faults on both types since we are well aware of them but why did I change from the GS LC?.
I gave up the GS LC after summer last year since I was finishing Euro touring and the GS was plain 'orrible/embarassing in city traffic (clutch didn't always bite at the same point/where's neutral/crashy gearchange) and currently have a Ducati again. It was a breath of fresh air when I changed back to Ducati to be able to find neutral while waiting at traffic lights /silent change from neutral /slick gear changes. Yes the 1200 V twin engine is also glorious. However, the full spec GS LC was a stunning machine while touring and hooning through the alpine passes and the cruise control on long distance motorway runs and I highly recommend it for touring, in fact I'm doing the BMW Garmisch Fest again this year and have gone this time for a rented bike from the BMW tour company running the trip, just couldn't resist the temptation to go again and this way I'm using both brands to their strengths.
Conclusion - Have fun on your Ducati on local blasts and rent a BMW for the long distance stuff.
Great posts.
SiR .... it seems you have the most hands-on experience with both marques there, and the comment from EW about the service costs also brings a tear to the eye. I think young alp has it right there in his wrap up statement too ... Ducati for one job, BMW for the other.
I do recognise alp's comment about those gears...... I travelled through Shaftesbury some months ago and got lost resulting in a lot of criss crossing roads trying to find where I was going... the gearbox was a total *&%^*& and I must admit I got pretty teed off with myself (for making a hash of gearchanges) and the bike. On the road to Salisbury, all was forgiven, but in Salisbury City Centre she acted up again. I blamed myself for being tired and thus making amateurish gearchanges. But when I hopped off the GS and onto an MTS for 20 minutes, the gearbox was a revelation.....smooth, every gear precise. The GS seems to be moody.... some days the gears are OK, other days not OK. My BMW dealership tell me "not to worry ... it gets better with higher mileage".
Don't know if anyone saw it but this month's BIKE magazine have a short travelogue around ...is it Tasmania or some such southern hemisphere location. Strangely I couldn't read any comments about the bike itself... very odd for a motorcycle magazine. Anyway, we do know the MTS do get used for megamile journeys but not whether they need rebuilding at the other end.
We know BIKE and others seem to "5-star" the GS and the MTS alike, so not a lot of help there.
We need more one time MTS owners to contribute.... so far it looks like the GS is winning out, but not by as generous a margin as I'd have thought. Who knows, a 2015 S1000R powered GS might finally end the competition.
SiR .... it seems you have the most hands-on experience with both marques there, and the comment from EW about the service costs also brings a tear to the eye. I think young alp has it right there in his wrap up statement too ... Ducati for one job, BMW for the other.
I do recognise alp's comment about those gears...... I travelled through Shaftesbury some months ago and got lost resulting in a lot of criss crossing roads trying to find where I was going... the gearbox was a total *&%^*& and I must admit I got pretty teed off with myself (for making a hash of gearchanges) and the bike. On the road to Salisbury, all was forgiven, but in Salisbury City Centre she acted up again. I blamed myself for being tired and thus making amateurish gearchanges. But when I hopped off the GS and onto an MTS for 20 minutes, the gearbox was a revelation.....smooth, every gear precise. The GS seems to be moody.... some days the gears are OK, other days not OK. My BMW dealership tell me "not to worry ... it gets better with higher mileage".
Don't know if anyone saw it but this month's BIKE magazine have a short travelogue around ...is it Tasmania or some such southern hemisphere location. Strangely I couldn't read any comments about the bike itself... very odd for a motorcycle magazine. Anyway, we do know the MTS do get used for megamile journeys but not whether they need rebuilding at the other end.
We know BIKE and others seem to "5-star" the GS and the MTS alike, so not a lot of help there.
We need more one time MTS owners to contribute.... so far it looks like the GS is winning out, but not by as generous a margin as I'd have thought. Who knows, a 2015 S1000R powered GS might finally end the competition.
I like the idea of having a Multistrada (especially the Pikes Peak 
), but now that I have the GS set up exactly how I want it, every time I ride the GS, it gets better and better.
I've had NO issues with it whatsoever, and it's plenty quick enough (although Giles' constant talk of Hilltop remaps is making me think of eating my words and biting the bullet
), so for the foreseeable, I can't see a Ducati coming into my life.
I've absolutely no doubt that the Multi is a cracking bike, but when the S1000GT/ GS or whatever they decide to call it comes along, it'll be an interesting day.
), but now that I have the GS set up exactly how I want it, every time I ride the GS, it gets better and better. I've had NO issues with it whatsoever, and it's plenty quick enough (although Giles' constant talk of Hilltop remaps is making me think of eating my words and biting the bullet
), so for the foreseeable, I can't see a Ducati coming into my life.I've absolutely no doubt that the Multi is a cracking bike, but when the S1000GT/ GS or whatever they decide to call it comes along, it'll be an interesting day.
when the S1000GT/ GS or whatever they decide to call it comes along, it'll be an interesting day.
Can't wait for that day, if they get it right sure will be awesome .
I like the idea of having a Multistrada (especially the Pikes Peak
I've had NO issues with it whatsoever, and it's plenty quick enough (although Giles' constant talk of Hilltop remaps is making me think of eating my words and biting the bullet
I've absolutely no doubt that the Multi is a cracking bike, but when the S1000GT/ GS or whatever they decide to call it comes along, it'll be an interesting day.
Aha ...
Well ..... Not long back from a bit of Alps, bit of Passo di Giau (knocks Stelvio into a cocked hat) and three or four days in the black forest.
Two 990 adventures, two Triumph adventures and my GS.
And the GS was absolutely stonking. And to quote Nutty - it's set up exactly how I want it. I cringe at the price, (Hill top, Remus full system and Translogic quick shifter) but the bike now rides exactly how I would want it to. It's quick, the throttle (fuelling) is an absolute delight, and it handles superbly.
The two triumph boys (who both got their brand new bikes a month or two before the trip) were ribbing me before hand that the triumph stonk would leave the GS standing. Ha!!! The GS smoked them on the tight twisties (better handling, lighter and such good grunty pick up out the corners and of course excellent brakes) nothing in it on the fast 120mph sweepers on the B500, and only started to loose out on the Autobahn at sort of 135 + speeds.
I'm very happy with it, and will be keeping it for some time ...
Where was that picture taken, Giles. Scenery looks marvellous. Interesting extrusion of igneous rock up ahead there !
From the northern end of Passo di Giau (Dolomites) we turned off the main road and took back roads. Stunning scenery, no traffic and great roads!!
All the roads around Cortina are stunning ....
All the roads around Cortina are stunning ....
I can't comment on the LC because I have deliberately avoided riding one for the obvious reason, but I have owned 3 1200 GS's one of which was an adventure, but this April I took delivery of my new Pikes Peak multistrada which whilst I was worried about all the stories I just fell in love.
I did look at maintenance costs and concluded that it wasn't so different to a GS, it's only the belt replacement that pushes the costs up bit that's only every 15k miles so I can live with that.
I have now done 4.5k miles and been as far as Mugello for the GP, it has been brilliant so far even the electrical system survived the worst rain I have ever ridden in through Belgium last Wednesday.
Comfort is on a par with the GS with I think a little less buffeting in turbulent air (when following a large car or van perhaps) than the GS with GSA screen fitted although I think there is less weather protection overall, I have suffered cold feet on the ducati and I can honestly say I haven't thought about that in 8 years of GS ownership.
The engine is a dream with a mechanical rasp as it takes off, the noise is so addictive and it goes like stink if you want it to.
The engine is not so happy around town at low revs as the GS but learn to keep the revs up and this smooths everything out although this does feel a bit alien at first.
As to the rear brake, mine is fine but this could be because it's a later bike.
The Multi handles brilliantly, this bike just loves to drive out of corners hard, the noise it makes when powering out of corners is addictive, did I mention the noise already
I had no trouble with my GS's loved them all especially the last twin cam but at the moment I have an Italian mistress, she is stunning but potentially quite high maintenance. Could I be tempted back to a fat Bavarian Frau in the future, never say never I say.
I did look at maintenance costs and concluded that it wasn't so different to a GS, it's only the belt replacement that pushes the costs up bit that's only every 15k miles so I can live with that.
I have now done 4.5k miles and been as far as Mugello for the GP, it has been brilliant so far even the electrical system survived the worst rain I have ever ridden in through Belgium last Wednesday.
Comfort is on a par with the GS with I think a little less buffeting in turbulent air (when following a large car or van perhaps) than the GS with GSA screen fitted although I think there is less weather protection overall, I have suffered cold feet on the ducati and I can honestly say I haven't thought about that in 8 years of GS ownership.
The engine is a dream with a mechanical rasp as it takes off, the noise is so addictive and it goes like stink if you want it to.
The engine is not so happy around town at low revs as the GS but learn to keep the revs up and this smooths everything out although this does feel a bit alien at first.
As to the rear brake, mine is fine but this could be because it's a later bike.
The Multi handles brilliantly, this bike just loves to drive out of corners hard, the noise it makes when powering out of corners is addictive, did I mention the noise already
I had no trouble with my GS's loved them all especially the last twin cam but at the moment I have an Italian mistress, she is stunning but potentially quite high maintenance. Could I be tempted back to a fat Bavarian Frau in the future, never say never I say.
alp
Registered user
Daffy, I'm really jealous about your Pikes Peak Multistrada! That is one hell of a great looking bike! I was sorely tempted to get one myself but £18K+ was a bit too much for me (wife wants a new kitchen!!!!). Enjoy.
Daffy I agree with everything you say about the multi except I get cold thumbs in the winter riding months. I was told the twin spark head smoothed out the low down revs issue !! And as you have said never say never but I will try the new multi and gs next year all I know is the new gs will have to be special for me to go back to bmw.
Daffy... Is that a Moto Rapido bike ? Looks like you're not too far from me.....
I can't comment on the LC because I have deliberately avoided riding one for the obvious reason, but I have owned 3 1200 GS's one of which was an adventure, but this April I took delivery of my new Pikes Peak multistrada which whilst I was worried about all the stories I just fell in love.
I did look at maintenance costs and concluded that it wasn't so different to a GS, it's only the belt replacement that pushes the costs up bit that's only every 15k miles so I can live with that.
I have now done 4.5k miles and been as far as Mugello for the GP, it has been brilliant so far even the electrical system survived the worst rain I have ever ridden in through Belgium last Wednesday.
Comfort is on a par with the GS with I think a little less buffeting in turbulent air (when following a large car or van perhaps) than the GS with GSA screen fitted although I think there is less weather protection overall, I have suffered cold feet on the ducati and I can honestly say I haven't thought about that in 8 years of GS ownership.
The engine is a dream with a mechanical rasp as it takes off, the noise is so addictive and it goes like stink if you want it to.
The engine is not so happy around town at low revs as the GS but learn to keep the revs up and this smooths everything out although this does feel a bit alien at first.
As to the rear brake, mine is fine but this could be because it's a later bike.
The Multi handles brilliantly, this bike just loves to drive out of corners hard, the noise it makes when powering out of corners is addictive, did I mention the noise already
I had no trouble with my GS's loved them all especially the last twin cam but at the moment I have an Italian mistress, she is stunning but potentially quite high maintenance. Could I be tempted back to a fat Bavarian Frau in the future, never say never I say.
Let's see a picture of it then.
I love the look of the PP Multi.
No, it's a Snells bike although I went with them at the flip of a coin almost as they both seem very good, MR are really well regarded but I just seemed comfortable with Snells and haven't regretted it so far.
I will post a few pics before the weekend.
Let's try this from my iPad.
First is Cannes by the marina, snow is top of the stelvio and the garage is a mess
Final one is the beta after a particularly deep, smelly muddy hole on Salisbury plain.
I'll try a bit harder at the weekend.
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Thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread and sorry it's taken me so long to reply back.
It's a great response which I didn't think I'd get as I was just wanting to break the ice with you all.
I'm amazed at how many MTS owners are on here and ones that have had BMW's before or after owning a Ducati.
I had a 2011 1200S with the touring spec parts fitted also along with some more carbon fibre bits n bobs. And of course being my first Ducati it was Red!!
I remember reading the MCN article on the new MTS when it first came out and I loved the looks of the bike. I test rode one at my closest dealer which was Ducati Glasgow. It was a great bike, loads of power and handled just like a sports bike but better!! I'd had a 2008 GS previous but wasn't totally in love with the looks of the bike. But I loved how it rode and how effortless it would allow me to travel across Europe and the alps.
In April 2011 I took delivery of my MTS and took it home where I prepared it for its first of three euro trips which would take place over the next three years. I ran it in as required and had my running in service done before we headed south. I was riding two up and fully loaded. However half way down the route des grande alps I started to notice the bike getting softer at the front and eventually under hard braking it would bottom out. The seals on her front left fork had failed and oil was coming out. I chose to cont riding the bike as I didn't want all the hassle of trying to get it fixed abroad.
This was the start of many problems to come.
The seals were replaced as required under warranty and everything seemed fine. However on my next trip to Europe the following year the front end started to knock and the rear brake was still non existent. Another trip back to the dealer on my return and this time I had to leave the bike. I also complained about false neutrals and the poor gear change between 1st and 2nd.
On my return they had replaced the ohlins forks, replaced the rear brake components with modified parts and had also replaced the radiator as the bike had over heated when left running in the workshop. The internal core of the radiator had failed. They made some small adjustments to help with the gear shifting.
I took the bike away and found myself pretty gutted that my shiny red pride and joy had let me down twice while on a big trip. I had intended originally when buying the bike to keep it for 5 yrs but as the first two years had been such a let down I wasn't sure what to do.
A few days after the repairs my side stand snapped, corrosion could be seen inside the side stand beside one of the welds. I was lucky as the bike was sitting near some cardboard boxes and this prevented any major damage. After some talks with my dealer and Ducati they replaced the broken side stand and the damaged front faring.
By now I had lost all faith I'm my motorcycle and began to wonder if buying this amazing bike which was supposed to be 4 bikes in one!! Even if it had been one of the four bikes that Ducati claimed it could be I would have been happy!
Now into my third year and extending the warranty I headed off again to Europe. The bike rode amazingly well. Everything I had expected from this brand new bike I had bought some two years ago. I came home from my 3000 mile trip smiling and buzzing from how the MTS had made me feel. I remembered the feeling, it was the same feeling I'd had after my initial test ride. The Multi had at last given me one great trip to remember it by.
Although this last trip had been amazing and it now being three years old and I was no longer able to extend the warranty I decided it was time to let it go and move onto something else. I was just worried that more failures which I'd had previously could cost me a small fortune to put right.
I popped in past my local BMW dealer to originally look at the standard GS which I loved the looks of. Then the salesman asked if I'd like to see the GSA. Having always thought it may be to big and heavy for myself I was pleasantly surprised how light and nimble the bike was. And after my first few miles I knew that BMW had my attention again.
My new GSA is just arriving at my dealer this week and I can't wait to see it.
I just hope that it lives up to my expectations and can carry me and my wife across Europe without endless troubles.
Will I miss the MTS even after all it's troubles, Yes I will. It was an amazing bike when things were right and the speed will never be matched by my new GSA. And as for the looks, well I'm happy but my wife was sad to see the shiny red bike get left behind when we traded it in.
So let's see what Berlin has built me. And let's see if BMW can put a smile of my face for 5yrs. As that's how long I want to keep this bike before looking at something else new again.
It's a great response which I didn't think I'd get as I was just wanting to break the ice with you all.
I'm amazed at how many MTS owners are on here and ones that have had BMW's before or after owning a Ducati.
I had a 2011 1200S with the touring spec parts fitted also along with some more carbon fibre bits n bobs. And of course being my first Ducati it was Red!!
I remember reading the MCN article on the new MTS when it first came out and I loved the looks of the bike. I test rode one at my closest dealer which was Ducati Glasgow. It was a great bike, loads of power and handled just like a sports bike but better!! I'd had a 2008 GS previous but wasn't totally in love with the looks of the bike. But I loved how it rode and how effortless it would allow me to travel across Europe and the alps.
In April 2011 I took delivery of my MTS and took it home where I prepared it for its first of three euro trips which would take place over the next three years. I ran it in as required and had my running in service done before we headed south. I was riding two up and fully loaded. However half way down the route des grande alps I started to notice the bike getting softer at the front and eventually under hard braking it would bottom out. The seals on her front left fork had failed and oil was coming out. I chose to cont riding the bike as I didn't want all the hassle of trying to get it fixed abroad.
This was the start of many problems to come.
The seals were replaced as required under warranty and everything seemed fine. However on my next trip to Europe the following year the front end started to knock and the rear brake was still non existent. Another trip back to the dealer on my return and this time I had to leave the bike. I also complained about false neutrals and the poor gear change between 1st and 2nd.
On my return they had replaced the ohlins forks, replaced the rear brake components with modified parts and had also replaced the radiator as the bike had over heated when left running in the workshop. The internal core of the radiator had failed. They made some small adjustments to help with the gear shifting.
I took the bike away and found myself pretty gutted that my shiny red pride and joy had let me down twice while on a big trip. I had intended originally when buying the bike to keep it for 5 yrs but as the first two years had been such a let down I wasn't sure what to do.
A few days after the repairs my side stand snapped, corrosion could be seen inside the side stand beside one of the welds. I was lucky as the bike was sitting near some cardboard boxes and this prevented any major damage. After some talks with my dealer and Ducati they replaced the broken side stand and the damaged front faring.
By now I had lost all faith I'm my motorcycle and began to wonder if buying this amazing bike which was supposed to be 4 bikes in one!! Even if it had been one of the four bikes that Ducati claimed it could be I would have been happy!
Now into my third year and extending the warranty I headed off again to Europe. The bike rode amazingly well. Everything I had expected from this brand new bike I had bought some two years ago. I came home from my 3000 mile trip smiling and buzzing from how the MTS had made me feel. I remembered the feeling, it was the same feeling I'd had after my initial test ride. The Multi had at last given me one great trip to remember it by.
Although this last trip had been amazing and it now being three years old and I was no longer able to extend the warranty I decided it was time to let it go and move onto something else. I was just worried that more failures which I'd had previously could cost me a small fortune to put right.
I popped in past my local BMW dealer to originally look at the standard GS which I loved the looks of. Then the salesman asked if I'd like to see the GSA. Having always thought it may be to big and heavy for myself I was pleasantly surprised how light and nimble the bike was. And after my first few miles I knew that BMW had my attention again.
My new GSA is just arriving at my dealer this week and I can't wait to see it.
I just hope that it lives up to my expectations and can carry me and my wife across Europe without endless troubles.
Will I miss the MTS even after all it's troubles, Yes I will. It was an amazing bike when things were right and the speed will never be matched by my new GSA. And as for the looks, well I'm happy but my wife was sad to see the shiny red bike get left behind when we traded it in.
So let's see what Berlin has built me. And let's see if BMW can put a smile of my face for 5yrs. As that's how long I want to keep this bike before looking at something else new again.
Giles, which bags are those on top of the panniers?
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