Battery or starter?

[Popell]

Get a charger from Lidl, it might recover your battery enough to be useful.....



And for the price you should have one in the garage

 

[Bendy toy]

It's not a big job to remove and strip the starter motor. To get the four brushes back in, tie them back with (small) zip cable ties. Drop in the rotor and snip the ties off.

Also check the main earth on top of engine below the ABS pump. You can test it with a jump lead from battery earth to bare metal on the engine. If the engine starts you have a dirty earth connection.

 

[FAT MATT]

It's not a big job to remove and strip the starter motor. To get the four brushes back in, tie them back with (small) zip cable ties. Drop in the rotor and snip the ties off.

Also check the main earth on top of engine below the ABS pump. You can test it with a jump lead from battery earth to bare metal on the engine. If the engine starts you have a dirty earth connection.

Is this easy to get to? I think I might have a dodgy earth too but have a non abs bike.

 

[Bendy toy]

Mine (GSA) needs the petrol tank taking off. It's forwards of the throttle cable splitter box.


Sent somehow.

 

[Santa-2512]

Blox!

Put new battery on, and it started a dream.

ran it for 10 mins restarted no problem.

went out this morning started on the button.

let it get fully warm turned it off went inside to simulate filling up with petrol

came back 5 mins later, prodded the starter, and its the slow lazy turn over then nothing ..

Bollocks!

Starter? or worse??

Mart

 

[FAT MATT]

For the £20 odd to change the brushes and 45min job it wouldn't hurt to rule it out.

 

[Bendy toy]

For the £20 odd to change the brushes and 45min job it wouldn't hurt to rule it out.

And - you can grease the starter motor gears.

A voltmeter on the bike makes it easy(er) to rule out other electrical issues


Sent somehow.

 

[Santa-2512]

Just been out for a couple of hours.

Bike cold

Turned on, and let complete system check..

Prod the starter, and the whir wheeze as it turns and she fires up .

Turned off, turned back on .... system check

prod the starter whir wheeze and away she goes

as its feckin freezing now i;m not going to strip the starter today, bit will look

at the brush pack etc.


(Wheres the best place to get one?)

The saga continues

mart

 

[roamer]

Before you rush in, what is the standing volts on the new battery? ideally close to 12.7 is full charge,12. 5 is half charged approx, if low charge it,
did you check the charge volts on the new battery 14v +.? the alternator or belt may be at fault if not ,
assuming a full charge what does it drop to on cranking, if it pulls down to around 10v its drawing a significant current at the starter, if it doesn't it may be poor connections, or as bendy suggests starter brushes,
You can measure the cables without dismantling using a volt meter ,from say battery earth post to engine casing, same on positive to starter stud,
max reading should be 0.5, {half a volt} max, with the starter pressed as the circuit must be under load, higher is a bad connection, corroded or loose ,
these basic tests will avoid the parts bingo guessing game ,
worth a try when you are warmed up and have 10 minutes to use the voltmeter,
Take this with you as the order of testing is as written, stop at any point you don't get what is expected and you will find the issue and know all is ok at the end,
Roamer,

 

[Santa-2512]

Will have a go when its warmer

Cheers


mart

 

[Bendy toy]

You can have the starter off the bike in well under an hour including finding the tools. The cold is a perfect excuse to take inside to do whatever overhauling its needs.

 

[Santa-2512]

Ok, Womaned up and had a looksee

removed the plastic cover - connections as seen



So where i could i followed the steps above

Batt standing voltage +12.74V

Charge voltage when running +14xx

Crank drop .. not sure where to place lead, so i placed it on the solenoid (cant remember which terminal though (DOH)

Not really sure with this bit lol

Crank drop 3-5v (i think ) i had it set on 20v range and it was 0.30-0.5

Batt to engine case 0.5V

Not sure whether i got the crank drop bit right?

was it neg battery to neg (small black lead on solenoid)

And +Tve batt to +Tve terminal on solenoid?

mart

 

[roamer]

Ok thats productive, the polarity of the meter if its digital doesn't matter, the 3, 5v you measured from battery pos to starter terminal shows a significant resistance ,
if that was when you pressed the starter while connected ,Just to confirm you are measuring the cable basically end to end ideally at the copper stud in the picture at the starter to battery pos terminal,
the rusty nut is something to attend to as it is possibly what you measured, Try cleaning the terminal and rusty nut as that carries the cranking current to your starter with the symptoms you described,
You are looking for 0.5v or less while cranking the engine, its that simple,

Roamer

 

[Santa-2512]

Ok thats productive, the polarity of the meter if its digital doesn't matter, the 3, 5v you measured from battery pos to starter terminal shows a significant resistance ,
Just to confirm you are measuring the cable basically end to end ideally at the copper stud in the picture at the starter to battery pos terminal, the rusty nut is something to attend to as it is possibly what you measured,, if that was when you pressed the starter while connected, Try cleaning the terminal and rusty nut as that carries the cranking current to your starter with the symptoms you described,



Roamer

Ok, so if ive read this right,

Drop the red spade connector off and clean spade & connector

Drop the rusty nut off, and clean the stud And spade connector (wire brush or w/d paper)

Is it worth applying some dialetric grease to the spade & stud when i reassemble?

Mart

 

[roamer]

Dialectric grease won't hurt, the big rusty nut is the power feed , give it and the terminal a good clean, battery disconnected,,,
it looks too simple using this measuring method, but its infallible for current loss, it seems weird measuring the same cable at each end,,, the idea is you should get a very low or near zero reading,
The circuit must be under load, switched on or activated iike starter button pressed , ignition on ,, 3,5v is a common value for corroded starter and earth circuits, causing slow cranking,
roamer

 

[Santa-2512]

I'll give it a go later this week,

weather & work permitting

mart

 

[roamer]

Good work mark, Just go easy with the rusty nut, ideally soak with wd 40 0r similar and work the nut back and forth if tight, maybe replace it,
if it has a steel washer under the nut thats corroded leave it off so the nut bites the copper terminal,
that connection will likely get very hot when you crank the engine,Reducing the amps to the starter,
i could have suggested risking burning your finger touching it , but the meter testing proves all associated stuff being ok along the way and it won't hurt,
Keep us posted,
roamer

 

[Bendy toy]

Mine shows about 10.8 volts while engine is cranking on a fully charged battery.
Not quite what you are testing but a useful value to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Santa-2512]

Good work mark, Just go easy with the rusty nut, ideally soak with wd 40 0r similar and work the nut back and forth if tight, maybe replace it,
if it has a steel washer under the nut thats corroded leave it off so the nut bites the copper terminal,
that connection will likely get very hot when you crank the engine,Reducing the amps to the starter,
i could have suggested risking burning your finger touching it , but the meter testing proves all associated stuff being ok along the way and it won't hurt,
Keep us posted,
roamer

I'll see if we have some copper nuts at work,

That said i might just bite the bullet and pull & strip the starter.

Its not going anywhere at the moment

Quick Q, if the starter can pull the current cold, why does it struggle when hot??

Mart

 

[duckspeed]

As Roamer has suggested measure the volt drops across a live circuit. I'm going to guess you have a high resistance once warm.