BMW to drop servos

[Tomcat]

As to the begining of the thread ..... 18m from 40mph seems like you are being a bit "girly" with the lever. make sure the tarmac is dry and warm with no loose top surface ride at 40 feed the brake on until its started barking then pull it as hard as two fingers will allow you.... You should be able top shorten that consdierably!

Bob.

No, I wasn't being girly! Four bikes were practising, including an RSV-R with Brembo radials. We were all around the same distance. In practice it is quite difficult to measure the precise distance, especially with a limited run up that needed hard acceleration to hit 40. Watching the others, some would roll off before the braking point, others would keep the throttle open and then hit the brakes.

I agree with you that its a riding skill thats well worth practising

 

[Malcvtr]

Note - you also don't get the ABS!

Who needs it? Cue for loads of posts about how ABS saved lives...

 

[snoopy]

1150 without ABS and servos. Sorted

 

[Engineer]

Who needs it? Cue for loads of posts about how ABS saved lives...

I agree

 

[Davey]

I think the brakes are the best I`ve ever had

 

[NorthernBoy]

I beg to differ - the back brake on my 2005 Adventure is very effective and also makes for a smoother change if used when downshifting...

It may make for a smoother change, but there is absolutely no way that the rear brake can have a major impact in slowing you down.

Your bike has a centre of gravity about two feet from the ground, and a wheelbase of about four feet. When you brake hard, there is a large shift forward in the weightof the bike, to the point that the rear wheel is hardly being pressed into the road at all.

As this point, any significant braking at the rear will lock the wheel.

This is nothing to do with the quality of components, but is an inevitable effect of a all bike without a long wheelbase.

If you think that your rear brake has a significant effect, it implies that you are using only a small fraction of the braking ability of your bike.

 

[ktmmark]

ABS is no more than an insurance policy, you have it hoping you never need it .

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

1150 without ABS and servos. Sorted

 

[Gonzo]

I agree

Quite, and my bike seems to have bucked the trend perpetuated by all the doomsayers around here.................





............the servos have not failed!

What's more, on more than one occasion the ABS has helped me avoid a spill, normally on a wet Wednesday in Decemmber on the M25, filtering, when a tw@t in a cage decides to change lane 3 yards in front. Being able to steer around the car rather than slide sideways helps! And "braking skill" and "expertise" in such a situation are less of a factor when the space available means the best you can do is grab a handful and prepare for impact!

Granted, for those of you sticking to lesuire riding on dry Sunday afternoons, I agree - ABS is of limited use! But then we all use our steeds for different purposes!

 

[(RIP) Shenzi]

At the dealer's yesterday I was told the newer bikes are now coming without servos, even if they have ABS and this will soon be the case with the GS.

Odd that this statement hasn't been questioned or substantiated! Which dealer? Which models? From when?
Clearly it will happen but according to this it already has!

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Not sure its happening yet but this is a link to the BM press release. Believe it applies to all models (though there is some question about whether it applies to the RT). http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/5840/1/

Paul

 

[JayGee]

Odd that this statement hasn't been questioned or substantiated! Which dealer? Which models? From when?
Clearly it will happen but according to this it already has!

It was Pidcock's and I was told the F800 have the new non servo ABS and the K1200 (GT & S, not sure about R) now or very soon and the R1200 (I think all except the S, but def the GS) will get it soon (I think Sept but can't really remember). I guess BMW will clear the stock of servoed bikes first.
I was told servoed ABS is def being replaced, only the timing seems in question (see press realeases metioned above).

 

[(RIP) Shenzi]

It was Pidcock's and I was told the F800 have the new non servo ABS and the K1200 (GT & S, not sure about R) now or very soon and the R1200 (I think all except the S, but def the GS) will get it soon (I think Sept but can't really remember). I guess BMW will clear the stock of servoed bikes first.
I was told servoed ABS is def being replaced, only the timing seems in question (see press realeases metioned above).

Thanks JayGee

 

[Ken H.]

Not sure its happening yet but this is a link to the BM press release. Believe it applies to all models (though there is some question about whether it applies to the RT). http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/5840/1/

Paul

From the 01-06 Bulletin:
"BMW Motorrad’s new Integral ABS is being introduced in late
summer 2006 on all models in the new K and Boxer generation (with the
exception of the BMW R 1200 S), replacing the previous system."

And:

"Upon the introduction of ASC in 2007, customers will be able to order this revolutionary new system for all Boxer models with the exception of the R 1200 S Sports Boxer and the K 1200 GT."

 

[JayGee]

From the 01-06 Bulletin:
"BMW Motorrad’s new Integral ABS is being introduced in late
summer 2006 on all models in the new K and Boxer generation (with the
exception of the BMW R 1200 S), replacing the previous system."

And:

"Upon the introduction of ASC in 2007, customers will be able to order this revolutionary new system for all Boxer models with the exception of the R 1200 S Sports Boxer and the K 1200 GT."

ASC? isn't this a fancy sort of power control to stop wheel spin etc? Wouldn't have thought you'd need that on a boxer with less than 100bhp

Seems like BMW can't resist over complicating things.

 

[Engineer]

Quite, and my bike seems to have bucked the trend perpetuated by all the doomsayers around here.................





............the servos have not failed!

What's more, on more than one occasion the ABS has helped me avoid a spill, normally on a wet Wednesday in Decemmber on the M25, filtering, when a tw@t in a cage decides to change lane 3 yards in front. Being able to steer around the car rather than slide sideways helps! And "braking skill" and "expertise" in such a situation are less of a factor when the space available means the best you can do is grab a handful and prepare for impact!

Granted, for those of you sticking to lesuire riding on dry Sunday afternoons, I agree - ABS is of limited use! But then we all use our steeds for different purposes!

I commute on my bike all the time, back roads and the 'horrendous A14' - I try to avoid rain, but it doesn't always work! I have never felt the need to have either ABS or servos.
I'm all for technical improvements and applaud BMW for continually trying to improve their safety systems, however it ain't yet perfect so I will wait a while before buying into these systems.

 

[JohnC]

I commute on my bike all the time, back roads and the 'horrendous A14' - I try to avoid rain, but it doesn't always work! I have never felt the need to have either ABS or servos.
I'm all for technical improvements and applaud BMW for continually trying to improve their safety systems, however it ain't yet perfect so I will wait a while before buying into these systems.

Terrible thing to say, but when WILL you know you need ABS? When it's done and dusted I'd say. For someone like myself who uses the bike for commuting every day, rain, hail or snow, over very mixed terrain I've already tested that scenario. The servo, well like many I'm still unsure, not about the obvious two finger stopping power (which can be found on most modern bikes), but about potential failure and the effectiveness of residual braking.

 

[Engineer]

Terrible thing to say, but when WILL you know you need ABS? .....

I will consider it when all the problems have been sorted out AND when there are no drawbacks AND when it can be clearly demonstrated that it is always more effective than 'normal' brakes.

An example... the September Issue of PB compares several high performance bikes including the K1200S - I haven't read it in detail yet so won't be too vociferous, BUT the K1200S took longer to stop than all of the other comparable bikes - this might be a one off, but there is some evidence that ABS is, under some circumstances not as effective as 'normal' brakes.

I understand that in certain conditions (wet road, poor serface etc) it may well be better and that's great, but I don't want a reduction in performance in other areas in order to get this benefit - so I will wait a while yet.

 

[JayGee]

Like Engineer, I'm less than convinced by the ABS; servos should not be necessary as most other manufacturers offer two (or one) finger braking without servos. I don't think ABS will ever develop to the stage where it will always brake better than a rider BUT:-
It already beats even expert riders when the road surface varies over the distance braked as a human can't adjust the level of braking to match the grip available. In the wet ABS beats all but the most brave and expert rider as most are afraid to apply maximum braking and lock-up the front. I can't give a link to these tests but I have seen them and I have also been told the same by various police class 1 riders (they have run their own tests). The problem is that on a good dry road many riders can beat the stopping distance of ABS and the GS ABS can easily get fooled into being activated when it's not needed (e.g. rumble strips, bumps when braking etc).
So I want ABS in the rain, on greasy roads, fully loaded but not on a good dry road. I guess it's a compromise and you make your own choices.

Let's not forget that ABS is almost standard on cars and it's well accepted that it increases braking distances in some cases but decreases it in others. However the main reason for its acceptance on cars is the ability it gives to steer while using maximum braking and this might not be the case on a bike. Yes, you might be able to use maximum braking but there's only so much grip available and swerving as well might well overload the grip available and lead to the front letting go.

So I can't decide if its best to have ABS or not

 

[Paul Wakefield]

BM have had ABS on bikes for years now (20 years?). They may not be perfect (what is?) but it is pretty well sorted. The servos are a more recent introduction and have issues and are obviously soon to depart anyway. IIRC the ABS is switchable on the GS so there is the opportunity for the best of both worlds.

I know its an area debated long and hard in the past but my view is still that, however good I am at braking in controlled dry conditions, I reckon that ABS is going to be a godsend in the "Oh s**t" panic braking moment especially as I may not be able to choose the road surface conditions. Isn't there some stat out there that in many accidents the rider did not brake as hard as he could have done for fear of locking up?

Paul