BMW to drop servos

[chasr]

All the negative feedback about the servos has obviously been taken into consideration when developing this new system - which hopefully will turn out to be better.

Unless BMW are introducing 'this new system' to save manufacturing costs. That's never been done before, has it?

Furthermore, a very good reason for not buying servo/ABS is the £750 (probably more, now) that it costs. Crap reasons for not getting servo/ABS are that it's 'underdeveloped', or increases your stopping distance, or that it's 'unreliable.'

Fanum's earlier post is spot on.

 

[The Bede]

My tuppence worth ...

... 2006 1200GS, when I was buying the bike it never occurred to me NOT to have ABS and servo. I'm disappointed that BuMW are withdrawing it (but not if it's 'cos they have another even more stunning solution)

... I'd previously run an R1100S with ABS Servo and it had no problems, I've put 8,000 on the 12GS with no problems (it seems like every other sodding thing has failed ... but the brakes have been flawless)

... NO problems, not one, not a single tiny crack in the veneer of a good and very powerful braking system (can't comment about chucking it about in the mud ... 'cos I don't!) ... you just need to get used to it and let the system do the work

... IMHO ABS and servo, brilliant, treat yourself while you still can ... stuff it into a hairpin and grab yourself a fingerful!

 

[Engineer]

Unless BMW are introducing 'this new system' to save manufacturing costs. That's never been done before, has it?

Furthermore, a very good reason for not buying servo/ABS is the £750 (probably more, now) that it costs. Crap reasons for not getting servo/ABS are that it's 'underdeveloped', or increases your stopping distance, or that it's 'unreliable.'

Fanum's earlier post is spot on.

Let me get this straight.....

If something is under-developed, increases you stopping distance and is unreliable, you should still buy it!!

Maybe illogical beings from the planet ZOG might do this, but not me!

 

[luckylucian]

ABS only kicks in when you brake hard enough to lock up the front wheel. Many comparative tests have shown an experienced rider, on a bike with ABS, can stop shorter by applying the brakes to the limit of the tyre (hence no ABS kicks in). Just grabbing a handful will bring in ABS and longer stopping distance.

 

[chasr]

Let me get this straight.....

If something is under-developed, increases you stopping distance and is unreliable, you should still buy it!!

Maybe illogical beings from the planet ZOG might do this, but not me!

It's called irony

 

[JohnC]

Let me get this straight.....

If something is under-developed, increases you stopping distance and is unreliable, you should still buy it!!

Maybe illogical beings from the planet ZOG might do this, but not me!

You could say 'normal' brakes are under-developed (on most road bikes), that they increase the stopping distance in many situations (not just ideal ones) and that they are unreliable, as many people crash with them due to front wheel lock ups or through failing to use the systems ultimate power. You could but, naaa.....

Forget the servos for a minute Engineer, the ABS on the BM's is fine, and the increased stopping distance you waffle on about is a bit of a red herring. For most people most of the time ABS is a boon. Very few cars are sold these days without ABS, and road bikes (i.e not race reps designed mainly for the track) will eventually follow suit. That's if they dont ban bikes all together for being death traps

 

[Engineer]

You could say 'normal' brakes are under-developed (on most road bikes), that they increase the stopping distance in many situations (not just ideal ones) and that they are unreliable, as many people crash with them due to front wheel lock ups or through failing to use the systems ultimate power. You could but, naaa.....

Forget the servos for a minute Engineer, the ABS on the BM's is fine, and the increased stopping distance you waffle on about is a bit of a red herring. For most people most of the time ABS is a boon. Very few cars are sold these days without ABS, and road bikes (i.e not race reps designed mainly for the track) will eventually follow suit. That's if they dont ban bikes all together for being death traps

I'm sure that the current system is liked by many people - all I said was that I believe that it still has a way to go before I would be convinced that it truly enhanced the performance of the bike to the point where I'd be happy to buy it.

BMW have apparantly now got a new system that hopefully will address some of the negative comments that the current servo system has attracted - excellent! When I have 'worn out' my current GS I will probably buy another and it might even have the 'new improved' ABS system.

I don't think that I ever waffled on about increased stopping distance - I simply referred, as an example, to a magazine test where a K1200S with ABS took longer to stop than similar performing bikes from other manufacturers. If it had stopped in a much shorter distance then I'm sure someone would say 'wow' look at how great the brakes are.

I hope that ABS never becomes compulsory - it will be a backward step in safety, unless whatever system is used, it always guarantees quicker stopping than the same bike without ABS whatever the conditions - a really good system should be able to do this. If it can't guarantee this then it should at least allow the user to turn it off and revert to 'normal' braking without compromise.

Each to his own - vive la difference, variety is the spice of life, etc........

 

[nemezis]

There is a clear statement from BMW for dropping power assistance!

"... the ignition no longer has to be switched on to achieve enough brake force when moving the bike."

Nemezis

 

[Marty Hill]

Hello Engineer,

There is no ABS system on either a car or m/c that a very good driver/rider can't outbrake w/o ABS using an otherwise identical car or m/c. I assume you are aware that the ABS can be turned off on the 12 GS.

 

[Eastriding2002]

Had an email today from a dealer after an enquiry about a GS. Apparently the new traction control on the GS is to be operated via the ABS, as such neither bike will be fitted with the servo's as a result of complications for the traction control.

 

[John Armstrong]

Hello Engineer,

There is no ABS system on either a car or m/c that a very good driver/rider can't outbrake w/o ABS using an otherwise identical car or m/c. I assume you are aware that the ABS can be turned off on the 12 GS.

Are you always "very good" and able to react instantly to every road surface change? I'mnot which is why I like the idea of ABS "helping" me. And 99.9% of the time I don't use the brakes at 99.9% efficiency. IMHO, YMMV etc etc.

 

[WindyChuffer]

I'm sure that the current system is liked by many people - all I said was that I believe that it still has a way to go before I would be convinced that it truly enhanced the performance of the bike to the point where I'd be happy to buy it.

BMW have apparantly now got a new system that hopefully will address some of the negative comments that the current servo system has attracted - excellent! When I have 'worn out' my current GS I will probably buy another and it might even have the 'new improved' ABS system.

I don't think that I ever waffled on about increased stopping distance - I simply referred, as an example, to a magazine test where a K1200S with ABS took longer to stop than similar performing bikes from other manufacturers. If it had stopped in a much shorter distance then I'm sure someone would say 'wow' look at how great the brakes are.

I hope that ABS never becomes compulsory - it will be a backward step in safety, unless whatever system is used, it always guarantees quicker stopping than the same bike without ABS whatever the conditions - a really good system should be able to do this. If it can't guarantee this then it should at least allow the user to turn it off and revert to 'normal' braking without compromise.

Each to his own - vive la difference, variety is the spice of life, etc........

Doesnt sound like that magazine did a valid test. You have to compare exactly the same bikes - one with ABS, and one without...

You will always be able to turn ABS off, even if there is no switch. It will be fused after all, and therefore easy to wire in a switch...

 

[Marty Hill]

John,

I wasn't speaking of myself...I love my abs on my 12GS. What I stated is fact under near perfect conditions. I have done it under test conditions in a car. Most of us do not have the skill to do it in an emergency or in less than perfect road conditions.

 

[Pukmeister]

John,

I wasn't speaking of myself...I love my abs on my 12GS. What I stated is fact under near perfect conditions. I have done it under test conditions in a car. Most of us do not have the skill to do it in an emergency or in less than perfect road conditions.

Face it, 99.99% of the time a rider will use his brakes in good time and on a decent road surface etc and come to a stop (or slow) with time and distance to spare. For that you don't need ABS.

Its the 0.01% when its too late, too slippery or just plain unlucky that ABS earns its £795 over the non-ABS model. It may not be enough to save you when the worst happens, but if it does save you it will be the best £795 you ever spent.

 

[John Armstrong]

John,

I wasn't speaking of myself...I love my abs on my 12GS. What I stated is fact under near perfect conditions. I have done it under test conditions in a car. Most of us do not have the skill to do it in an emergency or in less than perfect road conditions.

Last bit is very true, I'm sure also that the need to use it in the car is much more often than on the bike. Could be because I don't have a metal safety cage around me I'm that much more aware of what might / could happen. Or maybe other road users are becoming "blind" to cars as their own vehicle has airbags, ABS, traction control etc etc.

 

[Dellis]

At the dealer's yesterday I was told the newer bikes are now coming without servos, even if they have ABS and this will soon be the case with the GS. Seems that BMW have admitted the servos were a mistake, who knows soon they might even fit normal switchgear

Apologies if this is old news but I sure as hell wouldn't want a new bike with servos if they are just about to be scrapped.

Servos are pants - switchgear is best available - all IMHO

Dave

 

[topper]

Got the servos and ABS on my new 12adv - think it works fine - just back from 3000km in Norway - about 1500 of which was off road/gravel roads and no probs with ABS on/off as appropriate. Works especially well when bike fully loaded.

IMO

 

[Engineer]

Doesnt sound like that magazine did a valid test. You have to compare exactly the same bikes - one with ABS, and one without...

You will always be able to turn ABS off, even if there is no switch. It will be fused after all, and therefore easy to wire in a switch...

They were not doing a test of ABS systems, they were just doing a review of similar types of bikes from a range of maufacturers including the ZZR1400. Hayabusa, K1200S etc. They discovered that the K1200S took a longer distance to stop than all of the other bikes under the same weather and road conditions.

 

[Engineer]

Face it, 99.99% of the time a rider will use his brakes in good time and on a decent road surface etc and come to a stop (or slow) with time and distance to spare. For that you don't need ABS.

Its the 0.01% when its too late, too slippery or just plain unlucky that ABS earns its £795 over the non-ABS model. It may not be enough to save you when the worst happens, but if it does save you it will be the best £795 you ever spent.

This is true as long as they are at least as reliable and still perform at least as well as 'normal' brakes under all other conditions - is this always the case?

 

[JohnC]

This month Two magazine carried out a comprehensive ABS V non-ABS test. Using a Triumph Sprint ABS did the buisiness as far as stopping distance was concerned. Even with Jamie Whitham at the helm the ABS bike stopped much quicker in just about every situatuion. The final comments were that in an emergency situation the ABS equiped bike would serioulsy outbrake the non-ABS bike every time and was a huge boon for rider safety. A 'normal' rider with ABS stopped quicker than Whitham without any ABS, even in the dry. ABS, it's soon gonna be the norm on every bike