Isn't it DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) ? Different process I believe...
Cam Lobe Failure
- Thread starter PembsGSA
- Start date
DLC is on the followers .( if there is any )
i would want an oil flush of the engine too , and a new filter.
some debris will get caught in the oil filter ,
the rest .............
will get caught in the big end shells .
if BM's have a sludge trap in the crank the rest will be there.
long oil changes are a marketing ploy , so they can make out vehicles are cheap to run.
i would want an oil flush of the engine too , and a new filter.
some debris will get caught in the oil filter ,
the rest .............
will get caught in the big end shells .
if BM's have a sludge trap in the crank the rest will be there.
long oil changes are a marketing ploy , so they can make out vehicles are cheap to run.
Mine were changed (as I said earlier,) at 12k miles, been fine since, now 43,500 miles
I did a couple of extra oil and filter changes myself after the cams were replaced
I did a couple of extra oil and filter changes myself after the cams were replaced
Anyone talking about engine failure would do well to look at this Fort Nine U tube vid; the results may be surprising for some; i have seen this before.
He's an upstart Youtuber. Not a total dummy. But he's just a DIYer who hired a shop and bought a camera.
Watch him smash out a sight glass with a hammer and dig chunks out of the engine cases to get the seal out and you'll learn to take his words of wisdom with a pinch of salt. Like 99% of youtubers.
DLC failures happen. They are also incredibly rare. He's also in the USA. Where it seems like a fucking religion to put Liquid Moly in every vehicle. The exact substance which BMW say " DO NOT PUT IN OUR ENGINES AS IT DESTROYS OUR DLC COATINGS"
Watch him smash out a sight glass with a hammer and dig chunks out of the engine cases to get the seal out and you'll learn to take his words of wisdom with a pinch of salt. Like 99% of youtubers.
DLC failures happen. They are also incredibly rare. He's also in the USA. Where it seems like a fucking religion to put Liquid Moly in every vehicle. The exact substance which BMW say " DO NOT PUT IN OUR ENGINES AS IT DESTROYS OUR DLC COATINGS"
Larry Langford
Registered user
I certainly have no problem with keeping people (the mechanic) like this in groceries, now that I have retired. I could do this myself too, likely.
So one thing for sure is it won't hurt anything to use the very best oil you can and change it often ... keeping it clean. With these kind of problems, on air cooled motors, we would just increase the viscosity of the oil, you know 50wt or 60wt. But water cooled engines are engineered to run at a particular temp. And oil has a particular temp where it oils the best. This changes according to the viscosity of the oil. So you want to keep with the factory recommendation for the weight of the oil. I learned this from WWII pilots that were flying big radial planes for a air freight company (1980) that I worked for. Sometimes I would ride along in the jump seat behind the pilots. With the piston engines radials, they weren't allowed to take off until the oil temp was 180 degrees, NO exceptions. I think the oil was 60 wt, certainly no less than 50 wt but I could be wrong about that exactly. and that protects the motor from spinning bearings on takeoff.
So I think that this could also be a oiling problem. Usually when you have metal to metal wear that is usually result of the oil film holding the metal parts apart breaking down. If I was there with the guy in the video, I would ask him how the oil enters the head and what path it follows, if there is actual pressure there or if it is splash fed. Just like in an old 6 cylinder that thru a rod, the part that fails is most often the last rod on the crank that receives oil in the normal sequence.
So I'm wondering if if that cam lobe in this video is at or near the end of the line. If it is then this is an oiling problem. If not then it still could be oiling problem but there may be other factors. No matter how hard the cam lobes are, they can't take metal to metal contact in any situation ....
Another one is on the old airheads, there was made a 4 valve head bolt on head by krauser, for the 1000 and we found out right away that all the cam lobes would wear off. So it was standard procedure to also install a very high end hardened cam as it seems cam lobes have always been hard to oil, especially in high performance high lift cam situations ...
Larry Langford
Registered user
moly doesn't work for the ring seat either, too slick .....
This really surprises me.
I have worked pretty much exclusively with BMWs since 2011. And probably checked a BAZILLION cams on LC's. And not once have a come across a cam on an LC anywhere like in the condition on that video. Except maybe one or two which were from oil pump failures or total abuse from DIY servicing.
I have seen plenty of cams with normal discolouration. Which is not failure. Nor warrantable. Having been in the dealer network for much of the last 15 years, I've not known BMW accept any kind of claim against cam shafts with discoloration. They even released multiple notices to dealers to tell them discoloured cams were not an issue. You would literally have to be able to have scratches in the cam lobe that could be felt with with a fingernail. Or obvious damage like in the picture.
But really, I've NEVER seen a cam shaft DLC failure on a 1200 or 1250 LC in 15 years.
I've replaced a few sets of cams on bikes with over 100,000 miles. But again, just light wear and tear as expected from any high mileage engine component. And that was only preventative maintenance.
What years of bikes did you experience failures ? And at what mileages ?
I've had some LC's now in my care from new to over ten years old. I've seen them go from zero miles to 60,000 and some far beyond. I've logged discolouration on some cams at 12k miles. But close inspection shows nothing but a smooth surfaces with normal discolouration which is expected from DLCs. They have never got any worse nor do their clearances go out of spec.
Perhaps i'm just insanely lucky !!! or you're very unlucky to find them all !!
I also find it very surprising that BMW were bothered about VAT registration for your claims. As they never have been. And still aren't.. It's a Tax status. It's totally irrelevant as stated their own terms and conditions printed in their own documentation. Only 3rd party 'warranties' care about VAT as they're insurance policies not actually warranties.
I don't meant to conflict your findings. It just really conflicts with my own experiences. And those of all the other BMW workshops and techs I know.. And also BMW's own dealer wide procedures. What dealer do you work at ? Or did work at ??
It was widely known that the S1000's had a spate of DLC failures cerca 2016. These were all replaced under good will or warranty. I experienced plenty of those. You could hear them a mile away.
But again.. Absolutely no 1200/1250 cam failures. I should buy a lottery ticket...
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My mates 1000 was done pronto with no problems;;
Larry Langford
Registered user
So, how do the heads on LC BMW's oil? Or what is the path, or are they splash fed? thank you for posting here.
I'll try and dig out an oil map next time I log into my BMW system. But it's a combination of scavenge and pressurised oil passages.
I thought I'd update with a job I'm doing today. Here is a R1300. 12,000 miles.
Perfect valve clearances. Lobes are as smooth as a babies arse.
The marking you see here are 100% normal. I am not concerned in the slightest.
I couldn't even get my thinnest of feeler guages to catch in any of those marks.
When cam lobes DLC fails they are rough. And have deeper ruts than the Dakar Rally.
I expect these to look exactly the same in 12,000 miles time.
Perfect valve clearances. Lobes are as smooth as a babies arse.
The marking you see here are 100% normal. I am not concerned in the slightest.
I couldn't even get my thinnest of feeler guages to catch in any of those marks.
When cam lobes DLC fails they are rough. And have deeper ruts than the Dakar Rally.
I expect these to look exactly the same in 12,000 miles time.
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