Crankcase blowing oil.

[jtw000]

I have a potential problem with the engine. Many hours of googling have failed to help. Briefly, when I lent it to my friend the bike came back with many interesting and horrific personal problems. Most have now been resolved. I've been fiddling with the engine, now I'm no expert but I can't seem to find anything actually wrong. The problem is that there's a vent tube fitted on the right side of the upper cylinder, coming out of the generator area. Many times it's blocked and then spat out oil but by the time it was back, oil was pouring out, so badly that he fixed a bottle to catch the oil.
You can see that here...

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

That hose comes from the air box, it's just a drain from the air box. Get the air filter out and shine a torch down inside and clean it out then run it about a bit and see what happens. There should be a solid plug at the bottom of the hose.

 

[jtw000]

That makes sense. The K&N is utterly ruined, it's soaked through with oil, dirt and muck. Laos finally totalled the poor thing. I'm only just getting to the engine now, the mixture of clay and oil was glued on and it's taken days of scrubbing to get at anything. Oil in the airbox is bad! We're talking about a solid stream of oil, not a little bit. The cap at the bottom of the hose was missing when he got back, the airbox is clogged with clay and crap.

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

If the plug was missing, the hose will be pulling vacuum and sucking shite up into the air box.

 

[jtw000]

Pardon my ignorance but I'm having trouble getting information on this online. If the hose is meant to be plugged then what's the actual point of it? Is a little air meant to squeeze past the plug like a pressure valve? If it blocked up the airbox would that explain blowing out the oil through the breather hose?

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

It's for draining water out of the air box when you fall off in a river . Should be plugged

 

[jtw000]

I think we're talking about a different hose. If you look at the bottom right of the first pic you can see where the hose comes out of the crank. It follows up and over a water hose. That's where the oil was coming out.

 

[bighair]

Did he top up the oil ?

 

[Robster]

Yeah, I just had my airbox off - I think that hose should "plug in" to a connector on the bottom right corner of the airbox up at the front if I remember rightly.

 

[david a hall]

Has the oil been overfilled?

 

[jtw000]

I've been chatting about this on another forum as well. Mine seems to be wired up a little differently from other peoples. The breather hose goes nowhere near the airbox as you can see in the pic. I had assumed earlier that it was attached to the airbox indirectly through the engine but I now realise the breather is meant to go straight up to the box which mine absolutely does not do and never did. It did, however have a bung in the end which doesn't make any sense since it was directly blowing from the crank case. My guess is the previous owner has done something but even that is weird since I had a BMW mechanic go over her before I left on my trip and he gave her a clean bill of health. I also had all the recall work done. I'm sure someone would have picked up no this if it was wired up wrong. The BMW mech was ex-BMW and was self employed with a very good reputation. He went to the trouble of removing the kick stand and oiling it so it flicked up sharper, when I got her back, it was like a new bike, with that attention to detail I find it had to believe he'd have missed it.
It's difficult to say if it was over-filled since I wasn't riding her at the time. However, the guy I lent it to is a competent adventure rider, the one I shared my trips with. I can't believe he'd have over-filled it. The problem started before, the hose occasionally blew out muck and oil. I took her for a service here (the only qualified Western mechanic in the country) and he said it was just the breather doing its job. I'm not 100% sure I trust his opinion.
It's looking like the counter-balance seal might be gone which is an issue since BMW won't supply one. It could also be the piston rings or the oil pumps. None of these I can source locally. There is a small theoretically possibility that it's sucked in dirt, according to the F650 site. I'm hoping it's this since the problem started in the desert.
However, I toured Europe on this little bike, 2 up with tons of luggage at relatively high speeds, followed by a demanding trip through the Middle East. It's looking more like the strain has done some damage. I've got a mechanic mate coming over later. I might pull the engine apart and see what I can see. I'm seriously considering giving up on her. I've lost all faith in BMW. I apologise if this offends anyone but I've lost all interest in this bike and really just want to stop spending money on it. I've had a few bikes since that make me think that this was very much the wrong choice for me.

 

[mikedefieslife]

The hose would be on the left side of the bike. At least mine is. It's tranparent (or al least started that way). I'll echo that it should be plugged.

In your picture yours looks like something else entirely. Much to fat to be the hose form the airbox.

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

The only other pipe will be an oil return from the camshafts.
It should attach to the front of the rhs crank case from the cylinder head.

 

[mhsnowy]

There are 2 hoses that come from the bottom of the air box.
On the left front of the air box is a smaller clear pipe which a drain from the airbox.
On the right front is a larger hose which is the crankcase breather which attaches at the bottom and has a foam filter in the airbox to help stop the oil coming into the airbox.

Why it is throwing out quite so much oil I don't know but something is pressurising the crankcase. Worn rings/bore maybe?

Not very clear but you can see 2 pipes and the foam filter. (section 15)

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51546

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

There are 2 hoses that come from the bottom of the air box.
On the left front of the air box is a smaller clear pipe which a drain from the airbox.
On the right front is a larger hose which is the crankcase breather which attaches at the bottom and has a foam filter in the airbox to help stop the oil coming into the airbox.

Why it is throwing out quite so much oil I don't know but something is pressurising the crankcase. Worn rings/bore maybe?

Not very clear but you can see 2 pipes and the foam filter. (section 15)

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51546

Looking at the first picture, the long hose is going where it should on the front of the crankcase. The other hose is the short one that should have a plug in the end.
It looks like that one was in the bottle, when the bike is not running the shite will run down into the bottle.
When you start it up all the shite from the bottle will be sucked up and into the airbox and the engine inlet.

You can see the marks in the end of the short hose where the spring clip used to hold the bung was.

Completely remove the airbox, wash all the shite out, re-fit everything, put a new air filter in, put a bung in the hose.

Sit back and make a cup of tea. job jobbed.

 

[mhsnowy]

Looking at the first picture, the long hose is going where it should on the front of the crankcase. The other hose is the short one that should have a plug in the end.
It looks like that one was in the bottle, when the bike is not running the shite will run down into the bottle.
When you start it up all the shite from the bottle will be sucked up and into the airbox and the engine inlet.

You can see the marks in the end of the short hose where the spring clip used to hold the bung was.

Completely remove the airbox, wash all the shite out, re-fit everything, put a new air filter in, put a bung in the hose.

Sit back and make a cup of tea. job jobbed.

Not sure I agree?
The drain pipe from the airbox is a lot smaller and if you zoom in on the first picture you can see it's the pipe from the crankcase looped over the water hose and then into the bottle on the second picture. The pipe that goes from the crankcase to the airbox is also secured with a clip hence the mark.

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

Not sure I agree?
The drain pipe from the airbox is a lot smaller and if you zoom in on the first picture you can see it's the pipe from the crankcase looped over the water hose and then into the bottle on the second picture. The pipe that goes from the crankcase to the airbox is also secured with a clip hence the mark.

Yep I see now, I'm looking on a proper sized PC screen now not a smart ( allegedly) phone.
You are correct !
It is the crank breather.

Right if you've got excess oil coming out of there this is bad ! very fucking bad !
On the other side of the G650x engine you have two ! oil pumps.
One of them draws oil from the separate oil tank and pumps it under pressure to the various parts of the engine. ( pressure side )
The other oil pump sucks oil out of the bottom of the engine and pumps it back to the oil tank. ( suction side )

Now this is a guess.
If the suction side has a problem, the engine will fill up with oil and find a way out from somewhere.
It's easy to make a rudimentary check of the suction side.

Run the engine and slowly remove the dipstick, shine a torch in the oil tank and you should see the oil churning about like mad.
Give that a try and see what happens.

Sorry for the initial confusion.

Edit.

I have a 2001 f650 engine for parts on the shelf in the shed, I've already had some parts from it for previous repairs on G650x engines. ( lots of common parts )
If you find any damaged parts give us a shout and I'll dig it out to see if there the same.

Edit 2.
I found it and it has two complete oil pumps.

 

[jtw000]

I've had the same advice on the ADV forum regarding the pumps. I've ruled out the piston rings so it's down to three possibilities now, the pumps, the couterbalance-shaft seal or over-filling. I think the issue is a little advanced to be written off as over-filling and neither of the other issues make me happy. At the moment with the engine out there's bugger all I can do. The plan is to get her assembled and up on her feet and see if the issue has gone away simply be fitting with new unblocked hoses which actually go to the right places. Fingers crossed. If not, we'll take it from there.
Bez, that's an awesome offer. As soon as the bike is running I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Deleted account 190117001]

Whilst you have the engine out on the bench, this is the time to check it.
If you put it all back together again just to take it apart again to me that would do my fucking head in.

Take the spark plugs out.
Attach both oil pipes to the engine.
One on the bottom ( pressure )
One on the back ( Return )
You need to take the clutch cover off and turn it over by hand ( socket and T bar )

With an open tray of oil you should be able to submerge one oil pipe whilst turning the engine over and see if oil comes out the other hose at the back of the engine.

 

[Losttheplot]

Don't panic!

I had a similar issue with my bike in Competa last year.

After a few hours riding there was oil pouring out of the air box, it was a right bloody mess.

Like you i feared the worst, but there is possibly a very simple reason for the bike doing this. The bike has spent some time on it's side (alternator), which has filled with oil. When the engine is then run the trapped oil has no-where to go, so it gets blown out of the crank breather hose- like your bike is doing.

Before you start ripping the bike apart, i would suggest you change the oil, making sure you drain the engine and oil tank completely, and also take off the alternator cover to make sure there is no further oil trapped in here. Also strip the air box and make sure everything is as it should be.

When you put the new oil in the engine, measure it in with a jug, it should be around 2.2L. these dry sump engines are a sod for getting the oil level "right", as they need to be hot to check the correct level. As long as you can see oil in the tank it should be fine- don't over fill it!

Next job is extend the breather off the crankcase, and run it up to a clear plastic bottle taped onto the top of the air box, so you can see it. The get your boots and lid on and go for a ride!

If it continues to blow excessive oil out you have something serious going on, but i rekon the bike has just been laid over on the alternator side for 5 or 10 minutes.

How do i know this? before i went to spain i decided to check the clutch plates. Rather than drop the oil out, i leaned the bike over slightly onto a stack of tyres so i could pop the clutch cover off without oil pissing everywhere. This was enough for the oil to work it's way into the alternator case and cause the symptoms you describe.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/382196-Water-loss-emulsified-oil-found-in-crank-breather-pipe-and-air-box

Tale of woe:
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/383091-Tossers-in-the-Tejeda-VII-(4th-11th-October-2014)-the-final-tour!/page2

Good luck with it!