Hal
Registered user
That what they said about my Harley Tourer - done 58K in 8 years, should only have a max of 24K. Very tempted by a GS or GSA - talked to a real nice guy at Brighton at the weekend and said go with the GSA.
DON'T EVER BUY A NEW BMW!!!!
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That what they said about my Harley Tourer - done 58K in 8 years, should only have a max of 24K. Very tempted by a GS or GSA - talked to a real nice guy at Brighton at the weekend and said go with the GSA.
Guys,
Lets face facts here, if you don't want to loose any money, don't buy motorbikes?
I've had loads of bikes over the years and only made money on one of them, a Honda VF500 that I got about £300 more than what I paid for it, but that was about 20 yrs ago!
Let me give you examples of two friends of mine and there approach to the financial side of biking :-
Mate 1 :- "I can get any bike I want for £4,000, - Blackbird, R1, Fireblade, GS etc, and when I sell it, I only loose a few hundred quid" good point, has a lot going for it
Mate 2 :- Rides a 55 plate 1200GS and its a complete shed, dirty, tatty, and is probably past 60, 000 miles on it now.
But think about it, he'll go to trade it in and get bottom book, don't know what that would be, but hypothetically speaking lets say £4,000
Now if he'd kept it immaculate and only done 15,000 miles then went to trade it in, hypothetically again, he might be offered £5,500 for it.
So, the difference in milage is 45,000 miles and its cost him £1500 which works out at 3.3 pence per mile, THAT'S THE BEST VALUE FOR MONEY YOU WILL EVER GET !!
Moral of the story - bikes are to be used, and the more you use them, the better value you get from them.
Poucher
Lets face facts here, if you don't want to loose any money, don't buy motorbikes?
I've had loads of bikes over the years and only made money on one of them, a Honda VF500 that I got about £300 more than what I paid for it, but that was about 20 yrs ago!
Let me give you examples of two friends of mine and there approach to the financial side of biking :-
Mate 1 :- "I can get any bike I want for £4,000, - Blackbird, R1, Fireblade, GS etc, and when I sell it, I only loose a few hundred quid" good point, has a lot going for it
Mate 2 :- Rides a 55 plate 1200GS and its a complete shed, dirty, tatty, and is probably past 60, 000 miles on it now.
But think about it, he'll go to trade it in and get bottom book, don't know what that would be, but hypothetically speaking lets say £4,000
Now if he'd kept it immaculate and only done 15,000 miles then went to trade it in, hypothetically again, he might be offered £5,500 for it.
So, the difference in milage is 45,000 miles and its cost him £1500 which works out at 3.3 pence per mile, THAT'S THE BEST VALUE FOR MONEY YOU WILL EVER GET !!
Moral of the story - bikes are to be used, and the more you use them, the better value you get from them.
Poucher
flytoolow
Registered user
When it comes finance Im continually astounded of peoples decisions (especially finance directors for some reason ?)
Im not in the game, but its a question of assets and luxuries...
An Asset is something that puts money in your pocket - a luxury is something that takes it out!
...and always cover your luxuries with assets....
(So you think your house is your biggest asset ? Try not paying the mortgage for a few months and find out....Your mortgage is an asset to the bank...which they have probably already sold at a profit)
As such, a Bike (be it a new 1200, Ducati, or what ever), or a new car, will always be a luxury, Im not talking of the "nice and shiny" syndrome, just the cost - the moment you sign the papers it will lose its tax value and youve not even rode the damn thing. As a normal bloke on the street, buying a luxury on HP is one of the biggest sins (IMHO) to your bank account. All you are paying for is the depreciation...
I have heard of friends who have walked into a dealership (car) and walked out with a nice and shiny Infinity/Nissan, nothing down, $450/month - lovely - After 2 1/2 years he had paid off something like $370 of the list price...the finance still had $45K....
...and I am no better...
Nissan pathfinder : bought $23K - sold 3 years later $4K (learnt a big lesson - but a good car while I had it)
BMW F650 : Bought 6K chf - sold 12 months 3.5K chf (still learning)
BMW K12RS : Bought 9K chf ..(trying) to sell 2 years.. 4.5K chf (??)
BMW 1150GSA : Bought 9K...would probably get 7K chf ( not many around, still about 9K chf from dealers here) if I wanted to sell...but it a keeper
Porsche 911/964 : Bought $23K...would probably get 35-40K...( Good decision...was going to buy new Audi TT as a second car).
Land Rover : bought 14K chf...sold after 3 years...2K chf
Trying to find the right "classic" bike at the moment
So to try and explain this a little further....
If you have a luxury (Bike for example) always try and cover it with an asset...a rented property, or a stock or "something"...
I know it aint easy...
My cars/bikes fall into two categories...
Necessity ( every day, to/from work stuff) : Expect to take the hit, but keep it and use it - get your money's worth - If you pay 10 quid - then use for the whole 10 quid.
Luxury (Ride/drive on a sunny day - pleasure) : Either buy something that wont depreciate as fast (Your Luxury becomes your Asset) or figure out a way to get someone else to pay for the finance (Your Asset becomes someone elses Luxury to provide Your Luxury).
Houses, businesses are the same...with a house the trick is to turn the Banks asset into Your asset as well...and someone elses Luxury.
So as to the question of "Why so much depreciation on a (nice and shiny) new bike/car whatever", the short answer is "people gotta eat"...and the priviledge of riding something "Nice and Shiny" every year or two..puts food on someones else's table....sorry...
Im sure this will sting...but its the way it is....
F2L
Im not in the game, but its a question of assets and luxuries...
An Asset is something that puts money in your pocket - a luxury is something that takes it out!
...and always cover your luxuries with assets....
(So you think your house is your biggest asset ? Try not paying the mortgage for a few months and find out....Your mortgage is an asset to the bank...which they have probably already sold at a profit)
As such, a Bike (be it a new 1200, Ducati, or what ever), or a new car, will always be a luxury, Im not talking of the "nice and shiny" syndrome, just the cost - the moment you sign the papers it will lose its tax value and youve not even rode the damn thing. As a normal bloke on the street, buying a luxury on HP is one of the biggest sins (IMHO) to your bank account. All you are paying for is the depreciation...
I have heard of friends who have walked into a dealership (car) and walked out with a nice and shiny Infinity/Nissan, nothing down, $450/month - lovely - After 2 1/2 years he had paid off something like $370 of the list price...the finance still had $45K....
...and I am no better...
Nissan pathfinder : bought $23K - sold 3 years later $4K (learnt a big lesson - but a good car while I had it)
BMW F650 : Bought 6K chf - sold 12 months 3.5K chf (still learning)
BMW K12RS : Bought 9K chf ..(trying) to sell 2 years.. 4.5K chf (??)
BMW 1150GSA : Bought 9K...would probably get 7K chf ( not many around, still about 9K chf from dealers here) if I wanted to sell...but it a keeper
Porsche 911/964 : Bought $23K...would probably get 35-40K...( Good decision...was going to buy new Audi TT as a second car).
Land Rover : bought 14K chf...sold after 3 years...2K chf
Trying to find the right "classic" bike at the moment
So to try and explain this a little further....
If you have a luxury (Bike for example) always try and cover it with an asset...a rented property, or a stock or "something"...
I know it aint easy...
My cars/bikes fall into two categories...
Necessity ( every day, to/from work stuff) : Expect to take the hit, but keep it and use it - get your money's worth - If you pay 10 quid - then use for the whole 10 quid.
Luxury (Ride/drive on a sunny day - pleasure) : Either buy something that wont depreciate as fast (Your Luxury becomes your Asset) or figure out a way to get someone else to pay for the finance (Your Asset becomes someone elses Luxury to provide Your Luxury).
Houses, businesses are the same...with a house the trick is to turn the Banks asset into Your asset as well...and someone elses Luxury.
So as to the question of "Why so much depreciation on a (nice and shiny) new bike/car whatever", the short answer is "people gotta eat"...and the priviledge of riding something "Nice and Shiny" every year or two..puts food on someones else's table....sorry...
Im sure this will sting...but its the way it is....
F2L
Just to expand on my last post, this guy has had his moneys worth out of his bike, a 200,000 mile CBR 600 
I don't think it owes him a penny now !
http://cbrforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117511
I don't think it owes him a penny now !http://cbrforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117511
I think Personal Finance should be taught in schools.
Buying new depreciating vehicles on finance is one of the quickest ways to part with your money. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who really cannot afford it, who take out massive loans on something that is costing them a fortune in depreciation. It is all part of the consumer society of "keeping up with the Jones".
Most of the people with new vehicles live in relatively cheap houses. You don't often see new 60 reg vehicles outside decent houses unless its very "new money". My gaff is worth £750,000. If I hadn't wasted all my money on appreciating property, I could have afforded to buy a new 1200 every year.
In 1994 I learn my lesson the hard way. I bought a new Triumph Daytona Super III for £9,995. It was crap and I sold it a year later for £5,500. Since then I have never lost much money on any bike through buying wisely. I bought a new R1 in 2007 (trade price) and sold 2 years later and lost under £1,000. Every other bike I have sold in last 3 years I have made a decent profit on, overall I am a couple of grand ahead. I bought my R1100GS when it was only a few years old for about 50% of new price. I've used it for 8 years and done many miles on it and it is still as good if not better than the day I bought it. Every bike has been paid for in cash and none have ever been on finance.
Moral is, buy what you can afford and ride it and enjoy it.
Buying new depreciating vehicles on finance is one of the quickest ways to part with your money. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who really cannot afford it, who take out massive loans on something that is costing them a fortune in depreciation. It is all part of the consumer society of "keeping up with the Jones".
Most of the people with new vehicles live in relatively cheap houses. You don't often see new 60 reg vehicles outside decent houses unless its very "new money". My gaff is worth £750,000. If I hadn't wasted all my money on appreciating property, I could have afforded to buy a new 1200 every year.
In 1994 I learn my lesson the hard way. I bought a new Triumph Daytona Super III for £9,995. It was crap and I sold it a year later for £5,500. Since then I have never lost much money on any bike through buying wisely. I bought a new R1 in 2007 (trade price) and sold 2 years later and lost under £1,000. Every other bike I have sold in last 3 years I have made a decent profit on, overall I am a couple of grand ahead. I bought my R1100GS when it was only a few years old for about 50% of new price. I've used it for 8 years and done many miles on it and it is still as good if not better than the day I bought it. Every bike has been paid for in cash and none have ever been on finance.
Moral is, buy what you can afford and ride it and enjoy it.
i always buy toys just behind the curve, i paid £4,500 for a BMW Approved GS1150 with full BMWSH and new Clutch/Seals etc 20K on the clock, 3 years ago!!... probably worth £3.2k private sale today so thats £1300 squids or £433 a year i can live with that!.... I bought a Westerly yacht for 9.5k kept it for 7 years and sold it for........9.5k......
My Triumph Daytona 955 was £2.6 three years later £2.2k....... all the fun of the fair for bugger all!..... have you seen what you can buy for 5k these days..... RSV, R1, GS1200, GSXR...........996..........run it for two years and get 3.5k back....i was tempted by the dark side 12GSA but will wait till they are 5k.... wont be long and thats my entry point!....
My Triumph Daytona 955 was £2.6 three years later £2.2k....... all the fun of the fair for bugger all!..... have you seen what you can buy for 5k these days..... RSV, R1, GS1200, GSXR...........996..........run it for two years and get 3.5k back....i was tempted by the dark side 12GSA but will wait till they are 5k.... wont be long and thats my entry point!....
SERVDAVE
Registered user
There seems to be alot ot talk, and not enough riding! 
I brought my 650gs twin on finance becasue it allow me to have a bike I wouldn't otherwise afford. At my age the secand hand bikes I can afford are unreliable and need allot of work to keep them on the road. In my situation the best way forward is a new bike so I can depend on it, I only have a bike so it need to get me to work, and not break down all the tome.
as long as you keep the bike for awhile, rather than trading in every couple of years it normally works out to be the cheapest way to get to A to B!
Anyway, I'm off for a ride!
I brought my 650gs twin on finance becasue it allow me to have a bike I wouldn't otherwise afford. At my age the secand hand bikes I can afford are unreliable and need allot of work to keep them on the road. In my situation the best way forward is a new bike so I can depend on it, I only have a bike so it need to get me to work, and not break down all the tome.
as long as you keep the bike for awhile, rather than trading in every couple of years it normally works out to be the cheapest way to get to A to B!
Anyway, I'm off for a ride!
I think Personal Finance should be taught in schools.
Buying new depreciating vehicles on finance is one of the quickest ways to part with your money. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who really cannot afford it, who take out massive loans on something that is costing them a fortune in depreciation. It is all part of the consumer society of "keeping up with the Jones".
Most of the people with new vehicles live in relatively cheap houses. You don't often see new 60 reg vehicles outside decent houses unless its very "new money". My gaff is worth £750,000. If I hadn't wasted all my money on appreciating property, I could have afforded to buy a new 1200 every year.
In 1994 I learn my lesson the hard way. I bought a new Triumph Daytona Super III for £9,995. It was crap and I sold it a year later for £5,500. Since then I have never lost much money on any bike through buying wisely. I bought a new R1 in 2007 (trade price) and sold 2 years later and lost under £1,000. Every other bike I have sold in last 3 years I have made a decent profit on, overall I am a couple of grand ahead. I bought my R1100GS when it was only a few years old for about 50% of new price. I've used it for 8 years and done many miles on it and it is still as good if not better than the day I bought it. Every bike has been paid for in cash and none have ever been on finance.
Moral is, buy what you can afford and ride it and enjoy it.
Hear, Hear
as was told to me by someone :
Never borrow money on a depreciating asset as it'll cost you twice in the long run.
flytoolow
Registered user
I think Personal Finance should be taught in schools.
.
Could not agree more...Home / personal finance of how the world works should be taught before our kids leave school
A friend of mine (Business degree, MBA etc etc) filed for bankrupcy at the age of 35 - Had 150K + on credit cards just to keep himself & family afloat.
With "Chapter 7" protection his debt essentailly written off...2 months later the same credit card company that had taken him to court for non-payment sent him a new CC application with a 5% interest rate on top of normal...Thats the US for you.
Why buy new?
Proud owner of 10 plate GSA, purchased 2nd hand privately with 90 miles on the clock. It has every concievable BMW extra panniers/top box and waterproof liners, alarm etc etcetc plus some TT toys! I paid £11495.
There are bargains out there, some people must have more money than sense
Proud owner of 10 plate GSA, purchased 2nd hand privately with 90 miles on the clock. It has every concievable BMW extra panniers/top box and waterproof liners, alarm etc etcetc plus some TT toys! I paid £11495.
There are bargains out there, some people must have more money than sense
I bought an R65 new in 1980, cost with extras was £2149.
I've still got it and it and a one owner from new bike of that age must be worth at least a £1000.
Depreciation of £40 a year.
Plus in a few more years it'll start appreciating.
The ultra low mileage R100GS i bought years ago has more than tripled in price what i paid for it
I've still got it and it and a one owner from new bike of that age must be worth at least a £1000.
Depreciation of £40 a year.
Plus in a few more years it'll start appreciating.
The ultra low mileage R100GS i bought years ago has more than tripled in price what i paid for it
Mutley
Registered user
I bought an R65 new in 1980, cost with extras was £2149.
I've still got it and it and a one owner from new bike of that age must be worth at least a £1000.
Depreciation of £40 a year.
Plus in a few more years it'll start appreciating.
The ultra low mileage R100GS i bought years ago has more than tripled in price what i paid for it
Yeah but you have to go through that part when all you've got is a manky old dog of a bike
Eventually you come out the other side with one of two things: a really old manky bike or an appreciating asset
What you need is:
- patience
- mechanical aptitude to keep it on the road
- an ambivalence to shiny stuff
- a complete disregard for the latest bike
- a crystal ball to predict what will be cool
- somewhere to store said bike
- patience - did I just mention that?
one of these things are available to the young, some people develop them in time
chad
Registered user
I bought an R65 new in 1980, cost with extras was £2149.
I've still got it and it and a one owner from new bike of that age must be worth at least a £1000.
Depreciation of £40 a year.
Plus in a few more years it'll start appreciating.
The ultra low mileage R100GS i bought years ago has more than tripled in price what i paid for it
yeah but you is "speshial"
with an uncanny knack for being in the right place at the right time
yeah but you is "speshial"
with an uncanny knack for being in the right place at the right time
knack?
naw - that's practice, gained by the cost of experience.
I'm not saying nuffink about the 'speshial' bit though.
chad
Registered user
knack?
naw - that's practice, gained by the cost of experience.
I'm not saying nuffink about the 'speshial' bit though.
I bought an R65 new in 1980, cost with extras was £2149.
I've still got it and it and a one owner from new bike of that age must be worth at least a £1000.
Depreciation of £40 a year.
Plus in a few more years it'll start appreciating.
The ultra low mileage R100GS i bought years ago has more than tripled in price what i paid for it
From a previous thread or two i remember that Steppers had a veritable gold mine of "appreciating classics"
your R65 is already appreciating looking at some of the money on eBayCars, bikes etc "not how much you make but how little you lose"
Can't imagine the contents of this thread on a Ducati/Guzzi/Aprillia forum
with an uncanny knack for being in the right place at the right time
For every single "uncanny knack" for being in the right place at the right time there are 25 other "uncanny knacks" that come to nothing.
A mate of mine who deals in triumphs has just picked up a scruffy 6 year old triumph bonneville for £300 from an aussie who wanted a quick deal so he could get the plane home
needed a pair of fork seals, gave it a jet wash and it's superb condition under the grime.
chad
Registered user
For every single "uncanny knack" for being in the right place at the right time there are 25 other "uncanny knacks" that come to nothing.
A mate of mine who deals in triumphs has just picked up a scruffy 6 year old triumph bonneville for £300 from an aussie who wanted a quick deal so he could get the plane home
run round there and kick him inna spods the jammy fecker
i missed a trick when your airhead first came up for sale
From a previous thread or two i remember that Steppers had a veritable gold mine of "appreciating classics"
All bought when they were available very very cheaply.
A few years ago I turned down an average condition R90S for a few hundred pounds
. The ones that spring to mind are an american 1978 R80/7, 14K miles with original tool kit and tyre pump and still with the original silencers fitted on it. A K100RS 16 valve, less than 4K miles in pristine as new condition, and a k1100LT 9k miles, and a special edition K100RS, plus a few airhead GS's, all tucked away in my pension fund
Opps, nearly slipped my mind, a 6K mile ADV with very very slight crash damage that i bought for peanuts and slung in the back of the garage waiting for the day in years to come when it will be one of the lowest mileage ADV left in the world. That was until i got the 1055 mile adv at the weekend.
Think i'll keep the pair of them tucked away 
Aurelius
Registered user
All bought when they were available very very cheaply.
A few years ago I turned down an average condition R90S for a few hundred pounds
The ones that spring to mind are an american 1978 R80/7, 14K miles with original tool kit and tyre pump and still with the original silencers fitted on it. A K100RS 16 valve, less than 4K miles in pristine as new condition, and a k1100LT 9k miles, and a special edition K100RS, plus a few airhead GS's, all tucked away in my pension fund
Opps, nearly slipped my mind, a 6K mile ADV with very very slight crash damage that i bought for peanuts and slung in the back of the garage waiting for the day in years to come when it will be one of the lowest mileage ADV left in the world. That was until i got the 1055 mile adv at the weekend.
What happened to the 1150GS you let me borrow? Did you sell it?
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