Final Drive Failure Register

[Achim]

Final drive bearings

My final drive bearings were replaced back in February after 17,867 miles, under warranty, by Vines-SLM while the bike was in for a service.

 

[peter-k]

Would be nice if you could add your data here: clicky

 

[Achim]

Would be nice if you could add your data here: clicky

Done.

 

[peter-k]

Thanks bunches, you are the man .........

 

[peter-k]

International FD-Poll - Please Vote!

Seems the right moment providing you with some brief summary / information. Here is a 2009 poll with 312 voters who were asked for failure mileage data: clicky


1. Failure / No Failure = 54 / 258
This makes for 17,31 % of reported failures in this poll. In your Oct 2010 poll clicky this figure is 17,35 %. Coincidence?


2. Most failures are reported in between 10,000 - 40,000 miles
In my poll there is already now the same trend visible. Coincidence?

3. Mileage
Than more miles than more failures? No, that's not so.

4. Exactly this is the kind of information which can be retrieved, and more!
I've been told not only once "You achieve nothing". Here's what I think: Give it a chance, leave your vote, and leave the rest to me. If then in the end there is "nothing", then you are entitled telling me and the world.

.

 

[Rasher]

Carry on, be good to make some sense from all the hearsay.

10k - 40k, call it an average of 25k per FD, just about double the life of a chain, pity they are 10 times the cost, suppose you need to knock of cost of chain lube and degreasing products, plus labour to adjust / clean up etc.

Always wondered how long a shaft drive should last though, we know the 1200's can fall short, but what would be considered good, my expectation would be anywhere from 50k - 150k if well serviced, depending on type of use / abuse.

 

[itchywheels]

Can I add to that, what milage would you consider "Fit for purpose" My first one lasted 16087 Miles, the oil was changed at 23808. The second one lasted 28036 miles. My average for a final drive is 22061.

 

[peter-k]

Far more frequent than complete failure of the rear drive are actually seal leakage and bearing damage. The leakage of the outer seal does not do any immediate harm, but the inner one leaking does. The possible further damage to the rear drive is covered separately in my poll.

I am sorry reading about what happened to you. I agree a FD should last much longer than that.

Yamaha shows since 30 years how to built shaft drives that usually last over the entire life span of a bike.

 

[Dr.KC]

The pole is extremely interesting.

I am still though don’t understand what is the real problem causing all that mesh….

Is it a design fault?
Is it a material fault?
Is it any lack of QA / QC inside BMW?
Is it human factors….like wrong initial assembly?
Is it the use of wrong lubricants from the very beginning?
Is it the fact that BMW uses “shield type” bearings?
Is it matter of bike use, overload and/or handling?

And

Is there a way (in case someone likes the bike and wants to keep it – like me, have no problems so far) to do something to elongate the life of FD, because from what I hear, here, sooner or later the issue will knock my door too……

 

[peter-k]

I guess only BMW really knows.

That with the lifetime oil filling did not work as expected, this decision was modified in 2007(?). Also the oil expanding under heat could play a role, which might be the reason for reducing oil quantity prescribing 180 ml only, and adding a breather hole for 2010.

 

[Dr.KC]

I guess only BMW really knows.

Don’t be so sure Peter, I tend to believe that they don’t really care that much.

My job deals with the aviation industry I have seen many bearing, final drive assy systems, conical gears etch. First of all, you never see shield type bearings in such an application. We never just use a lubricant without the addition of compounds especially for high stress bearing and gear applications…..I can write for hours but there is no reason.

That with the lifetime oil filling did not work as expected; this decision was modified in 2007(?).

… Also the oil expanding under heat could play a role, which might be the reason for reducing oil quantity prescribing 180 ml only…

That’s the biggest nonsense ever….oil filming, layer lubrication etc theories have been shorted out completely by the mid 70s….and now days 95% of the lubrication products are for use in state of the art engineering applications…..so BMW have no excuses at that point……have in mind also that GS series FD is just a typical FD, designed on the bases of late 70s early 80s….the FD we are all using should have had a minimum of life time with “with-in-limits” slack of 250.000Km, changing FD lubricant every 20.000Km.

……and adding a breather hole for 2010.

[/QUOTE]

What is this again? I have never seen any differential drive system with a breather hole……I mean you might see some custom applications for WRC cars but on a GS bloody FD, what’s the reason….?

To me it seems that is more of a machining and accuracy limits issue (..and maybe design too), combined with bad assembly practices and/or techniques, and of course the usage of shield type bearings.

 

[chad]

To me it seems that is more of a machining and accuracy limits issue (..and maybe design too), combined with bad assembly practices and/or techniques, and of course the usage of shield type bearings.

this is interesting, when mike at Cardiff Motorrad rebuilt vaders final drive he seemed to think there was an issue with the casting of the FD case , not being true ?

either way there's no excuse for it not to be sorted in this day and age

and another thing why make it such a bastard to repair

i'll stick with me 1150 thanks at least you can fix the fecker with a good selection of hammers

 

[peter-k]

Dr. KC I've no idea about what you want to say to me, not even about the relation to my post which you quoted. The problem might be on my side.


Here is the breather hole

The pic is by member Kenny Rodkiss from the very same forum.

 

[Deacon]

What is this again? I have never seen any differential drive system with a breather hole……I mean you might see some custom applications for WRC cars...

See the black knob looking thing at the top of this FD...breather:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2137_1976224728

and here the same:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2137_1873703360

and this Gold Wing FD:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=200481337523

Seems to me I remember seeing plenty on heavy duty trucks back when I was drove and worked on them, and on other vehicles as well.

Just saying.

Honda has had it's problems as well:

http://www.allworldauto.com/comments/honda_vtx1800_comments_and_complaints_21-9566-1.html

Deacon

 

[Dr.KC]

See the black knob looking thing at the top of this FD...breather:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2137_1976224728

and here the same:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15102260216258_2137_1873703360

and this Gold Wing FD:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=200481337523

Seems to me I remember seeing plenty on heavy duty trucks back when I was drove and worked on them, and on other vehicles as well.

Just saying.

Honda has had it's problems as well:

http://www.allworldauto.com/comments/honda_vtx1800_comments_and_complaints_21-9566-1.html

Deacon

Thanks Deacon, I have never noticed that, that's good info.

I have checked my GS and she has not a breather......fingers crossed then....



P.S.: Peter I have nothing with you or your poll (I find t useful anyway), english are not my mother language and it s very easy to write something wrong, or give the wrong tone on things......

 

[peter-k]

No worries nothing negative received on my end ... not much anyway except that with the breather.

 

[billynomates]

Just had my GSA serviced at Coopers TW 2 new bearings fitted after 1500 miles since the last ones,done under extended warranty.
That makes 3 failures in 18K.
Seems there is a new type being fitted so fingers crossed.
Ian

 

[peter-k]

May I use this opportunity to promote my poll one more time?

clicky

You need to register, it's necessary for security reasons. I am not fishing for members or promoting my board. My aim is 500 votes in total until March. Just let me know if you would like to be removed from the database after your vote is recorded.

There is no need telling me, I know most don't believe in this. Even though ... please do me the favour and spend just a few minutes of your time.

 

[retardedignition]

Final drive replace under warranty at 21k. Just had full service at 27k and drive had to be stripped and rebuilt with new bearings. Thank god for extended warranty as I'd hate to be picking up the tab for this lot.

 

[PatM]

Ive just washed my bike and noticed the tell-tale oil deposits on the rear wheel- It will be back to Coopers again this week.
Now, I do use mine- shes an 06 and just coming up to 75k.

Ive had the final drive go at about 24, 30, 45, 62, and 72k- a couple of times its taken out the gearbox output bearing- so new casing or replacemnt of same. The failure at 60k was quite alarming, as it went when I was on the outside lane of the M23 - 2 hours later I was recovered by Mondial- with the usual excues for delay and the complimentry case of wine for the wife- as I dont drink- a few weeks later for my troubles.
I love the bike- but I think its something that should have been resolved by Now

Rgds


PatM