or overheats, or you can't see it in bright sunlight, or it shakes itself to pieces, or you drop it and the screen breaks.
Fuck Garmin!
- Thread starter Rasher
- Start date
All true, however for Mac users the bell is tolling on basecamp, as well as GE. And you have to use a computer, which may not be practical on a trip. I did succesfully update routs created in BC on this trip, using MRA on my phone.
My big issue is what to use as a route library once support for BC ends.
Yes. And: buttons.
There are some, yes limited, cases where you really want to have buttons or a resistive touch screen fallback. Mud/dirt/water.
There is a case for dedicated hardware for some users.
To respond to others: the issue, as we all discussed at the beginning anyway, is the software - not the hardware itself.
Actually, I'd say, the issue is that Garmin sells these devices with that poor excuse for supporting software.
Yes, I forgot that. Also rain - I was navigating with MRA in the rain and the rain set it off doing all kinds of unhelpful things. I know you can lock the screen but then, well, the screen is locked
BaseCamp was only “free” so long as you had the current/updated maps associated with a Garmin device - beyond that, its value was questionable. (And, yes, I was am very familiar with the software
).So, in one sense, the subscription fee was attached to your device purchase.
However, once the XT device got hold of an imported route (especially a route created in BC) then the XT would start manipulating it, and re-routeing till the cows came home. That bit hacked me off no end, till I discovered the user had to turn off so many menu settings …. No, not perfect I’m afraid, and it seems to have gotten worse?
There are a plethora of rugged, outdoor android devices/phones which have none of those problems.
They are IP69 and have screens far more rugged than any Garmin I've had. Cheap phones do struggle with brightness. (measured in Nits). But it's not hard to find a phone that doesn't.
I've never had even a cheap smart phone overheat when used as a sat nav. And that includes riding through the desert in the high 40's. It's just not a thing !
They don't shake themselves to pieces either. People use them for off roading all the time. As do I....
Although an Iphone camera from five years ago might though. So fair point.
Are Sat navs immune to breaking if you drop them ? I don't think so. I've broken them that way. I drop my smart phone every day. Usually five times a day (Oily hands)... It still works like new.
I can buy rugged cases for any phone. You can't get them for most Sat Navs.
I can understand that a stand alone device is simpler for many. And if that's what you know , I appreciate you don't want to change.
I toured Europe last year with a mate with a similar mindset. He had a brand new Garmin XT2.
When it came to traffic jams, closed roads on fast diversions, my android device out navigated and out performed his Sat Nav in every field. Because it was flexible. It was connected to the internet. I had options.
I could use Google Maps, Waze, DMD2, OSMAND, What three words... or whatever else I wanted to use. It was fast and easy to use...
He could only use a very overpriced Garmin map which had the flexibility of a Iron Girder. Slow and cumbersome.
I used to love my Sat Navs. I have ridden all over world using all sorts of Sat Navs. From 2610s in 2005 to the best Garmin XT2 when I was working for Globebusters in 2023.
Life has moved on. Technology had moved on....
If you think a phone is no good for navigation , you really need to do a bit of research and see what's out there.
Once you get it dialled in, you will never look back.
That's ancient software. But it is good. I've used it a lot myself.
There are so many modern route planners. With modern tech, you don't need to sit down at your computer and piss around for hours to stitch waypoints and shaping points together.
In fact, you can literally do it on the fly....
My point is. It can be anything you want it to be...Yes, but then it is a "dedicated device".
Just a different one
I use mine as a dedicated Sat Nav. But at anytime, it can be a phone. Or a Torch. Or a Music player. Or any of the other million things a decent smart phone can be.
Using any map I want.
Agree.
I am not trying to win an (the
) argument. It's just that different type of users will have different preferences. Market caters to most of them (usually).I use iOS on my daily life. I would not use Android (I have a few for work reasons).
In my case a rugged Android device would just be the "dedicated" device. At this stage I'd get a dedicated sat nav with better antenna assembly, etc. not have to deal with multiple software updates, faster cycles, and all the shit that comes with it. Also: in the wider digital product world there are cases for single use devices, and looks like it could be a returning trend going forward... but I digress.
I do not have the necessity (or the will, to be fair) to run multiple nav apps at the same time, or cycle between them. I'm happy (and a number of users will be) with a single dedicated solution – when it works. That's the issue.
To be clear: I use app navigation when in the car: Waze + OSMand if I have to follow custom made tracks/routes created by me. So I know, and use, both worlds.
What I find scandalous (and I voiced this many times) is how Garmin managed to sell what they marketed as "adventure" devices with a software stack that made them completely unfit for purpose.
I love that one of the main selling points of the XT at the time was that it came bundled with a quasi-topografic map pre-installed. With the way they progressed with software, you cannot see/use that map (or any other custom cartography) outside of the device for reference or planning.
They chipped away at a lot of the small features that worked for that specific market IMHO.
After they fucked it up so much, then "use Google maps" becomes an acceptable alternative.
So, yes, fuck 'em.
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I think you misunderstand. I've been navigating using satnavs for years, in boats and on bikes, and phones too. Including off road in all over the world, Morocco and the Sahara, Australia, Mongolia, the Balkans and the rest of the TET before there was any such thing as the TET, and I've been using a phone since 2015. So fuck off being a condescending twat.
I've got an armoured phone, I've got Hondo garage mounts, and I've had a go with most of the Android apps from Locus to Osmand and all the rest. Route planning has always been the weakness for the phone based apps, and basecamp was (and mostly still is) much better. They all have issues, and till recently a dedicated sat nav was better. But it is easier to switch to a connected device, and this trip I used a phone and a Garmin Montana. The Montana worked fine and I could see it when I couldn't see my armoured, waterproof Android phone.
I appreciate if you struggle with things like getting off route and back on again without a pink line to follow you might want to stick with a phone, though. In the meantime you might want to try not being a condescending twat and listening to some other people, plenty of whom on here who know more than you seem to.
"Modern Tech" - a phrase usually used by a politician that gets his assistant to send his emails for him because he has no idea how it works.
My point was literally that you can get an Android Device for £150 that out-performs the most expensive Garmin Device.
If you're happy to spend Garmin money, you can get a super dooper Rugged Tablet with OBD2 connectivity and a joystick controller.
Look at the DMD2 tablet etc. It makes Garmin look stone aged.
And what Garmin charges extra for, you can literally just get for free from the Android/iOS store..
If you're happy to spend Garmin money, you can get a super dooper Rugged Tablet with OBD2 connectivity and a joystick controller.
Look at the DMD2 tablet etc. It makes Garmin look stone aged.
And what Garmin charges extra for, you can literally just get for free from the Android/iOS store..
"Condesending twat"
Ahh yes. When the fool is shown to be a fool. All they have left is insults..
I literally called out your presumptions as ignorant outdated bullshit. Which is exactly what they are.
Silly man.
I’m sure they do . They probably give support and update the products tooI've said it before and I'll say it again. Garmin make high end systems for aircraft too.
When it stops it’s right twice a day.
My father has his parents grandmother clock, one day it will be mine. No rush
What screen do you do your planning on?
My phone screen is nowhere near as good as my laptop screen for planning routes. It’s far too small.
Tried MRA and found it not user friendly at all. Trying to send it to my sat nav just didn’t work at all. Even though it was connected to my laptop.
Calimoto was ok provided one wanted to go the way Calimoto wanted.
Google maps is fine for car use going from A to B without any scenic roads etc.
We’re all different , some of us very , but I gave up with Basecamp years ago as it was clunky and way out of date . MRA is much more intuitive . I do the planning on my 13” iPad and it automatically syncs with other devices such as iPhones .
The good thing is you can adjust the route during a coffee break etc on the fly . Try doing that on your 2610/XT etc .
Haven’t used a laptop for planning in many years . Haven’t used a laptop at all actually as no need for one .
Seems pointless using MRA to send files to a £350 Garmin device when you can just have your phone mirrored on a £70 Aoocci.
It’s 2026, not 1992
It was my Mum’s and dates from 1790, just amazing that it was made before the battles of Trafalgar & Waterloo
If you’d looked above you’d see I have a Nor7e coming this week, for all the reasons that have been mentioned. I hope it will do the job, it has secure mounts, good power connections and 2200 nits, and DMD2 which looks like it should be a good system and it now also has the hub planner too. It a dedicated device with dedicated software - a new iteration of the Garmin devices.
The Garmin Montanas I’ve been using for years have done a good job, which a phone would struggle to do, but they are now quite definitely falling behind. Since most of my riding has until recently been on remote tracks and trails, they’ve worked well, and the satellite messaging and emergency capability has been useful too. But they are out of date.
Your problem is that you assume you know best. I’m quite happy to change and I am doing but that’s pointless without changing to something better. Which I am.
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