Got Shaft Rot.... again WTF

[JerseyNeil]

Thats interesting.
I have found that the temperature of my final drive has now dropped considerable now that I have put over 100 miles on it. I wonder if it was just bedding in caused more friction at first? quite happy with it now.

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

I'm just back from a little jaunt in the bike. Thought I'd grope the FD and see how it was...

Bearing in mind the ambient temp here in London is approx 27°, I measured the temp from the FD along toward the engine.

FD= 40.3°
Beginning of the swing arm (FD end) = 43.6°
Middle of the swing arm = 46.1°
Gearbox end of the swing arm = 48.5°
Gearbox = 74.8°


So clearly a lot of the heat in the drive train is from the motor .



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Maybe that is with stopping and starting a lot and not a lot of cool air maybe... mine was just riding non stop, except for a check on the FD and at no time it ever got in any place more than luke warm, maybe the wind when riding cools it down, and when in towns it warms up....need a few more miserable buggers to jump on board, oh no they might get their hands dirty.........

 

[Slipperyeel]

Maybe that is with stopping and starting a lot and not a lot of cool air maybe... mine was just riding non stop, except for a check on the FD and at no time it ever got in any place more than luke warm, maybe the wind when riding cools it down, and when in towns it warms up....need a few more miserable buggers to jump on board, oh no they might get their hands dirty.........

Just one thought Smogbob. I think you're riding an LC GS... I'm on a TC oil cooled... I'm guessing that if I'm right and a lot of the heat is coming off the motor, then there would be less on the LC as the radiators are sucking up a lot of it? Or am I talking rubbish?



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[Deleted account 191119001]

Just one thought Smogbob. I think you're riding an LC GS... I'm on a TC oil cooled... I'm guessing that if I'm right and a lot of the heat is coming off the motor, then there would be less on the LC as the radiators are sucking up a lot of it? Or am I talking rubbish?



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Well for whatever it is worth, I actually rode into town today, the main town, with traffic a tad more heavy and outside temp at 25C, got home FD was twice as hot as the ride when temp outside was 20C so seems them degrees in temp and city shuffling make a diffence, I could still put my hand on the FD, but not keep it on for a long time, I would estimate heat was about same as a hot shower, maybe 36C, and reason I went to town, guess what was missing on my bike, only noticed it last night.


Left side


Right side

 

[Slipperyeel]

Well for whatever it is worth, I actually rode into town today, the main town, with traffic a tad more heavy and outside temp at 25C, got home FD was twice as hot as the ride when temp outside was 20C so seems them degrees in temp and city shuffling make a diffence, I could still put my hand on the FD, but not keep it on for a long time, I would estimate heat was about same as a hot shower, maybe 36C, and reason I went to town, guess what was missing on my bike, only noticed it last night.


Left side


Right side

I'm rather glad you updated us. I was beginning to worry .

By coincidence, I bumped onto a post in the US about much the same story. One poster quoted actual temps that matched mine... and now yours

I've decided that if you can't touch the FD, because it's so damned hot, then perhaps something is wrong. But if is 'hot' but you can hold your hand onto it, then all is normal. Well, this is until I hear different.

Oh, I was also thinking that this big change in temp will presumably make a difference when you 'check' the rear wheel for play. So if there's play when it's hot, then I'm guessing you definitely should investigate. But if you feel only a smidgen of play when it's all cold, then check again when it's all 'hot to re- confirm... The 1150 us a C3 type bearing. I'm guessing the 1200 is the same? Now I know why!

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[Deleted account 191119001]

I'm rather glad you updated us. I was beginning to worry .

By coincidence, I bumped onto a post in the US about much the same story. One poster quoted actual temps that matched mine... and now yours

I've decided that if you can't touch the FD, because it's so damned hot, then perhaps something is wrong. But if is 'hot' but you can hold your hand onto it, then all is normal. Well, this is until I hear different.

Oh, I was also thinking that this big change in temp will presumably make a difference when you 'check' the rear wheel for play. So if there's play when it's hot, then I'm guessing you definitely should investigate. But if you feel only a smidgen of play when it's all cold, then check again when it's all 'hot to re- confirm... The 1150 us a C3 type bearing. I'm guessing the 1200 is the same? Now I know why!

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Well going to drive you mad now went out for a 2 hour ride not city shuffling high speeds 170 km/h and the different speeds through towns, external temp 26C FD in all places when home in between shower hot and luke warm.

 

[Victor c]

Well for whatever it is worth, I actually rode into town today, the main town, with traffic a tad more heavy and outside temp at 25C, got home FD was twice as hot as the ride when temp outside was 20C so seems them degrees in temp and city shuffling make a diffence, I could still put my hand on the FD, but not keep it on for a long time, I would estimate heat was about same as a hot shower, maybe 36C, and reason I went to town, guess what was missing on my bike, only noticed it last night.


Left side


Right side

Did you find it?

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Did you find it?

Yep in the dealers..........

 

[Riko]

I have a 2016 GS for the past 23 months and coming up for end of dealer warranty so having a good look around the bike. I'm quite comfortable with basic servicing/fixes etc so having read this thread and a few you tube vids, I thought id have a quick shufty at the FD splines seemed a simple enough job. But Warlord warned of...

'IF it's rusted and the shaft can't be wiggled away from the final drive splines easily..... you run the risk, as you tilt the final drive backwards, of pulling the shaft off the gearbox splines at the top end of the shaft.. this will be difficult to re seat'.

So as I commence to drop the FD to a look, that's exactly what happened the shaft came down about an inch or so and it was clear the FD splines went going to separate even with a bit of shaking banging and rotating the disk back and forth. So at that point I thought about Warlords warning and pushed it back! to have a think. Don't think it came all the way out or I wouldn't have been able to push it back in but not sure now if the top end splines are fully back in the gearbox? i saw a vid that states there should be a click think it was one of JVB vids ?

So how difficult or not is it to remove the whole shaft? How do I know the top end splines are fully back in.

 

[grant123]

I have a 2016 GS for the past 23 months and coming up for end of dealer warranty so having a good look around the bike. I'm quite comfortable with basic servicing/fixes etc so having read this thread and a few you tube vids, I thought id have a quick shufty at the FD splines seemed a simple enough job. But Warlord warned of...

'IF it's rusted and the shaft can't be wiggled away from the final drive splines easily..... you run the risk, as you tilt the final drive backwards, of pulling the shaft off the gearbox splines at the top end of the shaft.. this will be difficult to re seat'.

So as I commence to drop the FD to a look, that's exactly what happened the shaft came down about an inch or so and it was clear the FD splines went going to separate even with a bit of shaking banging and rotating the disk back and forth. So at that point I thought about Warlords warning and pushed it back! to have a think. Don't think it came all the way out or I wouldn't have been able to push it back in but not sure now if the top end splines are fully back in the gearbox? i saw a vid that states there should be a click think it was one of JVB vids ?

So how difficult or not is it to remove the whole shaft? How do I know the top end splines are fully back in.

if its not seated into the gearbox correctly, you will find it difficult to connect at the wheel end of the FD

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

3mins 40 and 5mins 12 into this video gives an idea of what is on the other end, different bike, but not much difference.

 

[Riko]

if its not seated into the gearbox correctly, you will find it difficult to connect at the wheel end of the FD

Thanks Grant but not sure what you mean by that. It has not separated at the wheel end at all, when attempting to drop the FD the splines would not separate pulling the whole shaft down 'about an inch' then I pushed it back up 'about and inch' but not sure if its seated in the gearbox correctly. Do I have to remove the whole swing arm as in the Smog bobs vid ? or just the FD bottom Pivot bolt then pull the FD and shaft out together. That bottom Pivot Bolt is a bastard! and wont budge!

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Hmmmm. Mine is hot but sounds and feels great. Maybe friction will be a bit higher on a brand new one that needs bedding in (he says hopefully). Thanks for checking Smogbob.

Out again today only about 2 hours Neil, gave it a good Raz on motorway, and city shuffling it was boiling hot nearly 40C got home earlier FD was only shower hot again, I say about 32C

 

[Warlord]

Thanks Grant but not sure what you mean by that. It has not separated at the wheel end at all, when attempting to drop the FD the splines would not separate pulling the whole shaft down 'about an inch' then I pushed it back up 'about and inch' but not sure if its seated in the gearbox correctly. Do I have to remove the whole swing arm as in the Smog bobs vid ? or just the FD bottom Pivot bolt then pull the FD and shaft out together. That bottom Pivot Bolt is a bastard! and wont budge!

When all pushed back into position, select 1st gear and try and rotate the rear wheel.

If it wont rotate, chances are it's not come off the splines and your only worry is if its clicked back on properly. Not entirely sure how you would check that.

If it will rotate, the shaft is not connected to the gearbox.

 

[Riko]

When all pushed back into position, select 1st gear and try and rotate the rear wheel.

If it wont rotate, chances are it's not come off the splines and your only worry is if its clicked back on properly. Not entirely sure how you would check that.

If it will rotate, the shaft is not connected to the gearbox.

Thanks Warlord, yes I have done that the disc rotates in neutral but not in first so not come off, I think I pushed it back just as far as it came down? then put it all back together, without doing the intended job of greasing the splines! Like you say my worry is that I'm not sure I heard or felt any 'click' so not sure if its seated correctly? although I did push it back in by lifting the disc back into position in effect using the whole FD to push it back.. So the whole shaft really needs to come out now. So do I just remove the bottom pivot bolt and pull the shaft out still attached to the FD, then when out see if I can separate/grease and shove it back up?

 

[Warlord]

Thanks Warlord, yes I have done that the disc rotates in neutral but not in first so not come off, I think I pushed it back just as far as it came down? then put it all back together, without doing the intended job of greasing the splines! Like you say my worry is that I'm not sure I heard or felt any 'click' so not sure if its seated correctly? although I did push it back in by lifting the disc back into position in effect using the whole FD to push it back.. So the whole shaft really needs to come out now. So do I just remove the bottom pivot bolt and pull the shaft out still attached to the FD, then when out see if I can separate/grease and shove it back up?

Yep... if you want it out, it'll have to come out attached to the final drive splines.

You'll need to unbolt the FD hinge and pull it all out. Just be careful as it'll be heavy.

Then find a way to seperate the shaft from the final drive, before you put it all back again.

 

[Riko]

Thanks Warlord, I usually figure theses things out eventually! How many times does a an hours job turn into a full afternoon/evening and then some.

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Yep... if you want it out, it'll have to come out attached to the final drive splines.

You'll need to unbolt the FD hinge and pull it all out. Just be careful as it'll be heavy.

Then find a way to seperate the shaft from the final drive, before you put it all back again.

+1 on that if you have a little scissor jack or something to help hold the wheel part of the FD, it does help.

 

[Riko]

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Just remember do not overgrease them splines, otherwise they will retain heat...