Help needed..........the saga continues

west coast traveller

Registered user
Joined
Sep 2, 2005
Messages
549
Reaction score
0
Location
Radcliffe, Bury
Following the earlier thread the bike made it to the Dragon rally and now "resting" in Carlisle. Still having some problems and wonder if anyone has had similar problems? GS 1150 twin spark. Starts fine from cold. Pulls away then once it shows one bar on the oil temp, it starts misfiring under load. Runs well on motorway with a bit of feathering of throttle and revs past 5000 but feels like the cylinders slightly out of balence ( I've checked them with mercury manometers and they are fine). TPS spot on and coil sticks replaced and plugs. Plugs are light grey. When warm the bike will tick over for about 30 seconds then revs. drop and it cuts out.
The other day I noticed that as soon the bike had warmed from cold starting there was an immediate change to it running rough rather than gradual deterioration.
I've gone over all the threads and can find some of the issues experienced by other members on the forum e.g cutting out at tick over,but nothing with all the symptoms that the bike is having.
I'm not sure if I am off the mark but I get the feeling that there could be a sensor faulty...oil temp (but gauge shows 5 bars when warmed up) or air box sensor. The injectors are working fine and have been tested.
Has anyone had similar experience or know whether oil temp sensor malfunction could be the cause? Grateful for any advice on this one.
 
I've had two bikes with identical problems to yours- the second bike that came in took 5 minutes to diagnose Because I'd seen the same problem on the first bike..., the first took a while because, like your bike everyone who'd looked at it assumed it was a temperature related problem. Started fine but reached a couple of bars in the temp gauge and would run like a pig ............. The problem ....... Water in the petrol tank, and the bikes were parked on the side stand . Which meant the water in the tank was on the left hand side while the pump
Is in the R/h side . It just so happened that it took until 2-3 bars on the temp gauge with the bike upright before the pump started to suck up some water. Of course it might not be your problem but worth checking before you start spending money on parts .
 
Steptoe said:
I've had two bikes with identical problems to yours- the second bike that came in took 5 minutes to diagnose Because I'd seen the same problem on the first bike..., the first took a while because, like your bike everyone who'd looked at it assumed it was a temperature related problem. Started fine but reached a couple of bars in the temp gauge and would run like a pig ............. The problem ....... Water in the petrol tank, and the bikes were parked on the side stand . Which meant the water in the tank was on the left hand side while the pump
Is in the R/h side . It just so happened that it took until 2-3 bars on the temp gauge with the bike upright before the pump started to suck up some water. Of course it might not be your problem but worth checking before you start spending money on parts .
Click to expand...

Well the Dragon is the place for water ingress. I am with you on fuel related. If there a fuel filter anywhere that could be partially blocked.
 
Thank you all for the replies. You have helped me refocus and get back to looking at things in a logical way rather than going round in circles again and again...I shall make a list of things to do before I spend any more money!
The plan for this morning is to check compression, timing and clearances as this won't take long. Fuel pressure was good when I had injectors cleaned/refurbished late last year but I'll check this again. I'll change the TPS with a good spare and reset ECU.
If no improvement/cure, I'll lift the tank and drain and check for water, fuel pump and connections- it's got a new filter. (when I got down to Bury last week on the way to the Dragon, I did a stick coil check and replaced one. The bike ran perfectly for about 10 miles. Feeling rather chuffed I'd sorted it, I refuelled, set off and immediately the problem returned i.e. missing/back firing at low revs and lumpy running on the motorway) I changed the battery/abs carrier when replacing cables in November and will have another look to check if anything trapped or disturbed
whilst the tank is off.
Don't think I've missed anything so once again thank you for taking the time to reply. I'll keep you updated on progress.

Ian
 
I would also disconnect the lambda sensor under the tank and take it for a run. Only take you a couple of minutes after all and wont cause any harm. I've had all sorts of misfiring probs with a buggered one.
 
monkeyboy said:
I would also disconnect the lambda sensor under the tank and take it for a run. Only take you a couple of minutes after all and wont cause any harm. I've had all sorts of misfiring probs with a buggered one.
Click to expand...

I'll add that to the list.. I've never got my head round lambda sensors. Cheers.
 
west coast traveller said:
Thank you all for the replies. You have helped me refocus and get back to looking at things in a logical way rather than going round in circles again and again...I shall make a list of things to do before I spend any more money!
The plan for this morning is to check compression, timing and clearances as this won't take long. Fuel pressure was good when I had injectors cleaned/refurbished late last year but I'll check this again. I'll change the TPS with a good spare and reset ECU.
If no improvement/cure, I'll lift the tank and drain and check for water, fuel pump and connections- it's got a new filter. (when I got down to Bury last week on the way to the Dragon, I did a stick coil check and replaced one. The bike ran perfectly for about 10 miles. Feeling rather chuffed I'd sorted it, I refuelled, set off and immediately the problem returned i.e. missing/back firing at low revs and lumpy running on the motorway) I changed the battery/abs carrier when replacing cables in November and will have another look to check if anything trapped or disturbed
whilst the tank is off.
Don't think I've missed anything so once again thank you for taking the time to reply. I'll keep you updated on progress.

Ian
Click to expand...

One of the things that happen as the motor warms up are: first the mixture is made 5-10% rich, declining with time/temp. At 1-2 bars on the RID the bike goes Closed Loop, mixture enhancement goes away, and fueling is referenced to the O2 sensor.

If you want to reset the Motronic, make sure to disconnect the battery or unplug Fuse 5 for at least 5 minutes. It takes that long for all the capacitors to discharge and memory to reset.

If you had a charcoal canister, that valve is opened at about 3-5 minutes but you probably don't have one.

You can test 99% of the fuel tank innards and the fuel pressure regulator by measuring volume of fuel flowing in the return line. http://ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/391533-R1150-Fuel-System-Diagnostic-Tool

For water you could lean the bike to the right and see what flows from the return line connected to the tank (as opposed to the return line connected to the fuel distributor.

Good luck.
 
Roger 04 RT said:
One of the things that happen as the motor warms up are: first the mixture is made 5-10% rich, declining with time/temp. At 1-2 bars on the RID the bike goes Closed Loop, mixture enhancement goes away, and fueling is referenced to the O2 sensor.

If you want to reset the Motronic, make sure to disconnect the battery or unplug Fuse 5 for at least 5 minutes. It takes that long for all the capacitors to discharge and memory to reset.

If you had a charcoal canister, that valve is opened at about 3-5 minutes but you probably don't have one.

You can test 99% of the fuel tank innards and the fuel pressure regulator by measuring volume of fuel flowing in the return line. http://ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/391533-R1150-Fuel-System-Diagnostic-Tool

For water you could lean the bike to the right and see what flows from the return line connected to the tank (as opposed to the return line connected to the fuel distributor.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Prompted me to do a bit of research on the subject over lunch as well. I think I understand the principles better now. Also very useful tips on checking fuel pressure and quality! (I'd forgotten about the fuel flow test).
 
Think you will find Neil is spot on - it is contaminated fuel.
My previous 1150 GSA had exactly the same problem... The bike was parked in on the side stand outside for about 2 weeks.. Started fine but then when warm (2 bars) started misfiring / running rough.. checked everything I could but nothing obvious.. yet it always ran fine when it was cold ?.. 14 mile commute across London became a nightmare

Fellow Tosser said check fuel filter / breathers and empty the tank.

Water had got into the fuel.. Cleaned everything out.. Filled up with Shell's finest and the bike ran perfectly.

Best of luck,

Dave.
 
Stupid question I know, and I almost regret asking it but.... how does water get into the fuel? Are we just talking about contaminated fuel from the pump? I've certainly had s*it fuel abroad in the middle of nowhere, or seen jellified fuel if left in the tank for years but water in the fuel? Obviously, tuners have used water injection for years so I wouldn't expect (in my naivety) a little bit to make a massive difference. How do you definitively tell you have water in the tank and how much water is needed to make this kind of difference? Obviously there a a million ways to contaminate fuel. Fuel sloshes about with every bump + the pump is mixing it up via the return and I wouldn't expect the water/fuel to maintain any separation once a ride was underway either.

Ready to be educated:)
 
Update....

Well, what a knob head am I? Got the bike out of shed yesterday morning to go through me list. Replaced TPS with known good one and checked voltages. Basically they were all over the place when twisting throttle and back to rest. Checked the stop gap on the nearside injector body and discovered that there was a 1/8" gap between stop screw and cable/butterfly mechanism. On closer inspection the cable hadn't seated properly into the bracket (as in problems with rough running after tank has been removed). Cable removed and seating cleaned. Replaced cable and adjusted TPS, ecu reset and balanced throttle bodies at brass screws and cables. Tick over steady 1000 rpm with no drop off. Took bike out for a run and after an initial bit of coughing and surging the motor running fine again. Re checked TPS and balance and all ok. Went out for further run to warm up bike thoroughly and pulling cleanly all the way through the rev range. On returning to the village, no backfiring or missing at low revs. Later ran bike from cold and slight surging disappearing after about 30 seconds. Other wise all well.
Next job is full service and I will take all advice on board about draining tank and checking for water ingress.
I think the initial problem of frayed short cables leading to me replacing them caused the same symptoms and set me thinking there was another problem when all along I should have realised that there was a fuelling/adjustment issue. One thing I did notice was that there wasn't much adjustment left in the cable to allow the butterfly mechanism to touch the stop screw.
Anyway, so far so good. Still things to do but at least I now have a bike that runs nearly as it should.
Thanks again for all the advice.

Ian

PS as for my first question, you decide!!!! :augie
 
monkeyboy said:
Stupid question I know, and I almost regret asking it but.... how does water get into the fuel? Are we just talking about contaminated fuel from the pump? I've certainly had s*it fuel abroad in the middle of nowhere, or seen jellified fuel if left in the tank for years but water in the fuel? Obviously, tuners have used water injection for years so I wouldn't expect (in my naivety) a little bit to make a massive difference. How do you definitively tell you have water in the tank and how much water is needed to make this kind of difference? Obviously there a a million ways to contaminate fuel. Fuel sloshes about with every bump + the pump is mixing it up via the return and I wouldn't expect the water/fuel to maintain any separation once a ride was underway either.

Ready to be educated:)
Click to expand...

Water gets in through the fuel tank cap/lid.
 
west coast traveller said:
Well, what a knob head am I? Got the bike out of shed yesterday morning to go through me list. Replaced TPS with known good one and checked voltages. Basically they were all over the place when twisting throttle and back to rest. Checked the stop gap on the nearside injector body and discovered that there was a 1/8" gap between stop screw and cable/butterfly mechanism. On closer inspection the cable hadn't seated properly into the bracket (as in problems with rough running after tank has been removed). Cable removed and seating cleaned. Replaced cable and adjusted TPS, ecu reset and balanced throttle bodies at brass screws and cables. Tick over steady 1000 rpm with no drop off. Took bike out for a run and after an initial bit of coughing and surging the motor running fine again. Re checked TPS and balance and all ok. Went out for further run to warm up bike thoroughly and pulling cleanly all the way through the rev range. On returning to the village, no backfiring or missing at low revs. Later ran bike from cold and slight surging disappearing after about 30 seconds. Other wise all well.
Next job is full service and I will take all advice on board about draining tank and checking for water ingress.
I think the initial problem of frayed short cables leading to me replacing them caused the same symptoms and set me thinking there was another problem when all along I should have realised that there was a fuelling/adjustment issue. One thing I did notice was that there wasn't much adjustment left in the cable to allow the butterfly mechanism to touch the stop screw.
Anyway, so far so good. Still things to do but at least I now have a bike that runs nearly as it should.
Thanks again for all the advice.

Ian

PS as for my first question, you decide!!!! :augie
Click to expand...

It may have helped if you'd have mentioned about replacing the throttle cables in your initial post .. :D
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bigcats
The Saga continues.
Replies
8
Views
2,192
Neil W
Neil W
Flipfly
THe Bertha saga continues!!
2
Replies
22
Views
4,026
fayeslane
(RIP) Dennis
Scooters in the Sahara the saga continues
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
22,144
Toad
Toad
The Saga Continues
Replies
18
Views
3,595
Mike1150
The Saga Continues - part 2
2 3
Replies
43
Views
7,242
DrAlf
DrAlf


Back
Top Bottom