The Saga Continues

[Mike1150]

Hi all,

After 4 weeks of sporadically working on changing my starter and ring gear (Clutch Housing) I finally complete the job, charge up my battery and voila, started first time like a dream!!

However, tried to start it yesterday and it really struggled to turn the engine, I understand this to be due to less charge in the battery.... however, more concerning was the unmistakable sound of the starter sliding/grinding on the ring gear. Took the starter off this morning to look at the ring gear and starter, there were definite signs that the starter isn’t gripping the gear properly, is this a common factor if you try start these beasts without enough charge in the battery (cant help notice the amount of posts on this site about battery problems). These things can only go on one way so surly there is no way I am missing a setting/ adjustment anywhere?

Spoke to very experienced mechanical engineer and he suggested I layer the ring gear and starter gear with MolyGrease, now my non-mechanical mind tells me that this would add to the sliding, although may ease the grinding?

Any advise welcome!!

Mike

 

[davegs]

Ring

Whats the state of the starter gear? if this was running on the main worn gear it must have affected the teeth on this and obviously won't mesh very well.

 

[vilguy]

+1 on that. If you put any worn gear against a new gear they will both bugger up very rapidly indeed!

 

[Mike1150]

+1 on that. If you put any worn gear against a new gear they will both bugger up very rapidly indeed!

brand new gear and a brand new starter (BMW parts)

 

[Stewart H]

I just took my starter off and did a clean and lubricate on it, I also was able to verify that the magnets are still in place, it does sound a lot smoother when operating now, well worth the time taken, it was sounding as you describe beforehand, harsh.

Stewart

 

[Psyko]

Suggestion ...

I'm not very mechanical, so would any experts please step in if this is utter rubbish?

On an earlier 1150GS I had, the battery started to weaken and when I pressed the starter it gave a grating sound (a bit like a slower version of when you accidentally hit the starter when the bike is running ). My dealer said this was because the weak battery wasn't spinning the starter motor fast enough to fully extend it to allow it to engage. I think that it might spin out gyroscopically and if there isn't enough force it doesn't go out far enough to engage properly. Once I had a new battery the problem was solved. This may or may not be relevant.

Sorry if this is total balls. I wouldn't have the expertise to do what you have done, so I'm just sharing something that may or may not be relevant.

Good luck,

Psyko.

 

[Steptoe]

I'm sorry, but i couldn't help having a chuckle after reading [URL="http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170703&page=2"]THIS[/URL] in the other thread.

Man I have really enjoyed this job... I was quoted £500 to do the job, done it my self for about £350 (inluding few tools and lubes) and learnt loads in return!!!

Would really recommend to others to have go fixing yourself before taking the "shop"!!

 

[Mike1150]

I'm sorry, but i couldn't help having a chuckle after reading [URL="http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170703&page=2"]THIS[/URL] in the other thread.

Think you're having a dig, no need......?

still enjoying the challenges

 

[Steptoe]

Think you're having a dig, no need......?

No. Having a laugh

 

[Mike1150]

I'm not very mechanical, so would any experts please step in if this is utter rubbish?

On an earlier 1150GS I had, the battery started to weaken and when I pressed the starter it gave a grating sound (a bit like a slower version of when you accidentally hit the starter when the bike is running ). My dealer said this was because the weak battery wasn't spinning the starter motor fast enough to fully extend it to allow it to engage. I think that it might spin out gyroscopically and if there isn't enough force it doesn't go out far enough to engage properly. Once I had a new battery the problem was solved. This may or may not be relevant.

Sorry if this is total balls. I wouldn't have the expertise to do what you have done, so I'm just sharing something that may or may not be relevant.

Good luck,

Psyko.

Thats sounds logical and seems a really good explanation, thanks Psyko!!

 

[sockpuppet]

The MolyGrease would probably help the starter and the other gear mesh with each other just starting the bike better.

 

[Mike1150]

The MolyGrease would probably help the starter and the other gear mesh with each other just starting the bike better.

yeh, Im planning on moly'ing it in the morning, spoke to BMW Oxford and they said this is reasonable option but it may eventually gather a lot of muck and damage the starter, however, I would far rather the starter goes then the ring gear!!

 

[D6]

when you replace starters on most ringear set ups on cars, you dont lubricate them,wouldnt it turn into "grinding"paste?

 

[ciderman gs]

i think you are missing the point and it is somebody has said that his starter made this noise when his battery was worse for wear and in the link steptoe mentioned you have started the bike 5 times in quick succession without charging the battery so this would then lead me too think your battery would need a refresher charge it is only 19amp capacity i think and god knows how many years old. just out of curiosity did the clock reset to zero

 

[Stewart H]

My starter was rather sticky, I cleaned the spiral engagement part with solvent and left it bone dry, this part will prevent proper engagement if dirty, I then cleaned and repacked the reduction gears, I also lubricated the nose bearing.

Stewart

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

FFS ! - don't put any lube on the ring gears !!


Its your battery - after all that

New ring gear and new starter ? - well theres only electricity left out of the equation .

I bet steptoe's doing this right now




sorry

 

[Steptoe]

yeh, Im planning on moly'ing it in the morning, spoke to BMW Oxford and they said this is reasonable option but it may eventually gather a lot of muck and damage the starter, however, I would far rather the starter goes then the ring gear!!

Please, don't grease the ring gear. It's grease not a miracle cure for problems.

I can't beleive a mechanic has told you it's an option. Moly grease is a spline grease. For lubing teeth you need a tenacious ring gear lube ( there is a such a specific grease ), but i've never ever seen starter ring gear lubricated on cars bikes or airplanes in all my life, it's just not needed.

If you go down this farcical route, remember that all this grease will be flung around in your clutch housing so you've also got the possibility of the clutch getting contaminated.

 

[t'other dave]

Listen to Steptoe, it's his job to know things like this, also when fitting clutch kits if you read the blurb that comes with it it says clean every thing with brake/cluch cleaner do not grease anything, warranys will be void. Same with starters the dust will build up on the grease and cause problems.

 

[Mike1150]

Listen to Steptoe, it's his job to know things like this, also when fitting clutch kits if you read the blurb that comes with it it says clean every thing with brake/cluch cleaner do not grease anything, warranys will be void. Same with starters the dust will build up on the grease and cause problems.

Didnt grease them