D6
Registered user
resisters to fool bmw cars, (and ballasts incorporating this ) can be easily sourced, would this work on the 1200.s?
Myke Rocks
Registered user
HID problems
Suggest you look at my posts on the subject. (Around a year ago)
They are extensive and accurate.
however, to recap on your specific problem.
It is nothing whatsoever to do with shunt resistors or the like. Too low a current (from 33w ballast) merely brings up Lamp F but this does not inhibit the lamp.
No, your problem is the ballast itself.
Many ballasts, when the lamp is warming up, permit considerable currrent to flow for around the first second or so.
Thus: a 55w conventional lamp at a nominal 12v will draw a notional 4.6a. (Actually more, because when bike starts, lamp is getting 13.7 v when system is charging)
The inrush created by the cold filament at the switch on point lasts for less than 0.1 seconds and would not push the load up by more than 1 amp to circ 5.6a.
When the HID is switched on, the inrush is up to 12a for up to 3 seconds, as the arc develops. After that, load drops to 33w (Circa 2.75a)
Your BMW has no fuses in it. All circuits are monitored for excessive load, and the circuit is instantly disconnected if load is excessive.
This is what is happening to your HID.
Solutions:
Easy & expensive way is to take off your relatively cheap HID ballast & replace it with a much more expensive one from Les Wassel.
The ones he supplies do not suffer the current inrush you are suffering, so do not trip the Canbus system.
Much more difficult way is to fit a relay & switch the HID off the battery via a fuse. Messy & difficult, but it works. Afterwards you have to fit a Lamp F canceller capacitor to the original output. You get them from the Ballast supplier. A mess.
Drawings are available if reqested. Just ask.
Hope this accurate information is of help.
Myke.
Suggest you look at my posts on the subject. (Around a year ago)
They are extensive and accurate.
however, to recap on your specific problem.
It is nothing whatsoever to do with shunt resistors or the like. Too low a current (from 33w ballast) merely brings up Lamp F but this does not inhibit the lamp.
No, your problem is the ballast itself.
Many ballasts, when the lamp is warming up, permit considerable currrent to flow for around the first second or so.
Thus: a 55w conventional lamp at a nominal 12v will draw a notional 4.6a. (Actually more, because when bike starts, lamp is getting 13.7 v when system is charging)
The inrush created by the cold filament at the switch on point lasts for less than 0.1 seconds and would not push the load up by more than 1 amp to circ 5.6a.
When the HID is switched on, the inrush is up to 12a for up to 3 seconds, as the arc develops. After that, load drops to 33w (Circa 2.75a)
Your BMW has no fuses in it. All circuits are monitored for excessive load, and the circuit is instantly disconnected if load is excessive.
This is what is happening to your HID.
Solutions:
Easy & expensive way is to take off your relatively cheap HID ballast & replace it with a much more expensive one from Les Wassel.
The ones he supplies do not suffer the current inrush you are suffering, so do not trip the Canbus system.
Much more difficult way is to fit a relay & switch the HID off the battery via a fuse. Messy & difficult, but it works. Afterwards you have to fit a Lamp F canceller capacitor to the original output. You get them from the Ballast supplier. A mess.
Drawings are available if reqested. Just ask.
Hope this accurate information is of help.
Myke.
Old Gregg
Guest
I had a similar problem with my 08 1200GS. I bought a kit, allegedly specifically for canbus vehicles from the same supplier I'd used for my R1 and ZX6-R and they flashed but nothing else. I got the LAMPF message on the dash.
I sent them back and bought one from Les Wassel. I fitted that one and it worked fine. On really hot summer days, (the three of them we had last year), it often flashes and goes off when I start the bike, reporting LAMPF on the dash but I am not too worried about it. If it's hot enough to do that it's got to be a hot summers day so you don't really need your lights. I carry the original bulb on the bike just in case it does happen when it's dark, but so far at least I've never needed it. I have seen posts saying that the ballast should be in a position where there is air flow to it to help keep it cool. My ballast is mounted under the right hand side of the tank just above the air intake.
Les should sort you out.
I sent them back and bought one from Les Wassel. I fitted that one and it worked fine. On really hot summer days, (the three of them we had last year), it often flashes and goes off when I start the bike, reporting LAMPF on the dash but I am not too worried about it. If it's hot enough to do that it's got to be a hot summers day so you don't really need your lights. I carry the original bulb on the bike just in case it does happen when it's dark, but so far at least I've never needed it. I have seen posts saying that the ballast should be in a position where there is air flow to it to help keep it cool. My ballast is mounted under the right hand side of the tank just above the air intake.
Les should sort you out.
Hi Myke
Useful input and no doubt one of several possible failure modes. However. I'm wondering why you are at pains to stress the accuracy of your post - do you consider any aspect of the information I provided to be innacurate - e.g do you consider the possible failure modes I describe to be wrong?
I have had two HID problems - a "major" one in that the HID did the same as the OP's and a "minor" one in that I sometimes get LAMPF on dash with working light.
None of these faults relate to current in-rush on start-up tripping the fuse as you suggest.
The LAMPF clearly doesn't because the headlight remains working. This would not happen if the fuse was opened by the CANBUS. This is caused by too little current flow in the circuit that a shunt resistor (not a capacitor) would fix.
My HID that had the same problem as the OP never made it to my bike - I tested it before fitting. It was connected directy to the battery of a Jump Start battery pack that did not have any fuse at all, let alone a CANBUS system to shut down because of current in-rush. Hence my conclusion the ballast control circuitry responsible for generating the several kV to strike the discharge worked fine, but the circuirty for generating the 100v or so required to continue running the lamp was faulty. Again nothing to do with current in-rush.
regards
Darren
Myke Rocks
Registered user
HID fault.
I see you performed the same tests as I did, but came up with different result. In my case, the lights worked perfectly, in your case they did not.
It is obvious, therefore, that you are correct. I may also be, as you say, a fault in the ballast unit.
The correct thing to do. as you say, & I neglected to say, is to power the light directly off a battery to test it before installation.
Myke
I see you performed the same tests as I did, but came up with different result. In my case, the lights worked perfectly, in your case they did not.
It is obvious, therefore, that you are correct. I may also be, as you say, a fault in the ballast unit.
The correct thing to do. as you say, & I neglected to say, is to power the light directly off a battery to test it before installation.
Myke
This is where all the good advice and conspiracy theories go out the window. Mine are the expensive ones from Les!!
They consistently fail on startup with a LAMPF error, unless I give the bike some throttle. Even then, if the bike/lamps are warm (eg after stopping for petrol) it can take a few attempts to get the lights to come on.
thanks
Steve J
lead me not into temptation...
oh sod it, I'm weak.
Just buy an 1150. Fit HID's of any type, capacity, country of origin etc. Switch on and they work, no fussy canbus, no type F failure lamps no shunts, resistors special this that or anything else.
Then ride and enjoy
oh sod it, I'm weak.
Just buy an 1150. Fit HID's of any type, capacity, country of origin etc. Switch on and they work, no fussy canbus, no type F failure lamps no shunts, resistors special this that or anything else.
Then ride and enjoy
Mikefirefighter
Guest
Ok first a big thank-you for all the posts.
I have tested both the HID kits using a direct battery connection and they both work fine.
I have come to the conclusion that the right way to go is use a relay harness taking power directly from the battery.
I did a similar thing a few years ago when I put some powerful bulbs in a GSX750X.
A relay system does have several advantages.
1, No 100v stress on the CanBus system
2, No flickering of the lights
3, Reliability quite a big one that being as its a headlight
4, Enables me to use my cheep £40 HIDs (thats £40 for the dip and main
beam) Sorry Les.
I think I can make a reasonable job of it with out it looking too messy.
The only question remaining for me is how to fool the CanBus into thinking there is a bulb in the holder. But maybe someone out there know how to work out what the appropriate resistor should be.
I have tested both the HID kits using a direct battery connection and they both work fine.
I have come to the conclusion that the right way to go is use a relay harness taking power directly from the battery.
I did a similar thing a few years ago when I put some powerful bulbs in a GSX750X.
A relay system does have several advantages.
1, No 100v stress on the CanBus system
2, No flickering of the lights
3, Reliability quite a big one that being as its a headlight
4, Enables me to use my cheep £40 HIDs (thats £40 for the dip and main
beam) Sorry Les.
I think I can make a reasonable job of it with out it looking too messy.
The only question remaining for me is how to fool the CanBus into thinking there is a bulb in the holder. But maybe someone out there know how to work out what the appropriate resistor should be.
Fanum
Toubab
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Hmmm the way I see it you do what your looking to do with the relay then you have to fool the ECU by fitting a resistor so it thinks it has the proper load. Net outcome of that lot is your drawing over a 100w of power for one light. That said I have no idea what Myke is on about with the lamp f canceller capacitor? I thought all these units were just a resistor to bring the load up to what the ECU expects.
I mean ECU by the way as CAN is a network protocol (Controller Area Network) which in itself doesn't switch anything of or on.
I mean ECU by the way as CAN is a network protocol (Controller Area Network) which in itself doesn't switch anything of or on.
Myke Rocks
Registered user
Might help
Find attached a drawing to install both HIDs on an R1200Rt using relays to overcome your problems, & how to wire up the fautl cancelling capacitor.
Also on the drawing is wiring for 2 sets of HOD Driving lights & relays. Just look at the top half of the drawing. Wiring & colours are same for R1200 GS.
Fault cancelling capacitors were bought from supplier who provided HIDs.
Myke.
Find attached a drawing to install both HIDs on an R1200Rt using relays to overcome your problems, & how to wire up the fautl cancelling capacitor.
Also on the drawing is wiring for 2 sets of HOD Driving lights & relays. Just look at the top half of the drawing. Wiring & colours are same for R1200 GS.
Fault cancelling capacitors were bought from supplier who provided HIDs.
Myke.
Mikefirefighter
Guest
Oh my god Myke 6 HIDs ??? were your aiming to burn out the retinas of anyone coming the other way or just save them a trip to the Sun-bed salon ?
But thanks for the diagram, not sure I can follow it not being an electrician.
Marki your right in a way I will draw a somewhere near a 100w as in 50 for the 50w 6 ohm resistor and whatever the HID draws but the point is the HID load will be on a separate circuit. There is no choice about this because there is no option in the can-bus system to dial down the acceptable draw of the original bulb.
But thanks for the diagram, not sure I can follow it not being an electrician.
Marki your right in a way I will draw a somewhere near a 100w as in 50 for the 50w 6 ohm resistor and whatever the HID draws but the point is the HID load will be on a separate circuit. There is no choice about this because there is no option in the can-bus system to dial down the acceptable draw of the original bulb.
Myke Rocks
Registered user
No, not 6.
Not 6 HIDs. SEVEN!
(Auxiliarys are all driving lights)
It makes the rednecks turn off their foglights!
The fault cancelling capacitors fool the Canbus system into thinking load is ok. They are used extensively on cars which have been converted. They do actually keep the Lamp F at bay.
Myke
Not 6 HIDs. SEVEN!
(Auxiliarys are all driving lights)
It makes the rednecks turn off their foglights!
The fault cancelling capacitors fool the Canbus system into thinking load is ok. They are used extensively on cars which have been converted. They do actually keep the Lamp F at bay.
Myke
Mikefirefighter
Guest
Myke whats the spec of the capacitors you used?
And were did you get them from?
And were did you get them from?
Myke Rocks
Registered user
Lamp F Supression
Unfortunately, I sufered 3 hard disk failures in a month shortly after I bought them, so I lost records.
However, From memory, I think it was http://www.xenonshop.co.uk/
They came "Plug in", but I modified the connections to suit a relay/Canbus installation.
Myke.
Unfortunately, I sufered 3 hard disk failures in a month shortly after I bought them, so I lost records.
However, From memory, I think it was http://www.xenonshop.co.uk/
They came "Plug in", but I modified the connections to suit a relay/Canbus installation.
Myke.
Mikefirefighter
Guest
Done.
Job done
Fitted the two 50w HIDs (to dip and main beam) at 8000K
Put the two full sized ballasts under the right hand faring were some emisions thingy goes on the US version of the bike.
Plenty of space there for the ballasts and the relays to take power directly from the battery. No flicker because there running of relays
Two little ressistors cure the LAMPF error.
Cost was ok the HIDs were from flea bay for £39.12 and a couple of 30amp replays fuses and bits of wire and connectors about £10
The result is fantastic!
Im chuffed.
Job done
Fitted the two 50w HIDs (to dip and main beam) at 8000K
Put the two full sized ballasts under the right hand faring were some emisions thingy goes on the US version of the bike.
Plenty of space there for the ballasts and the relays to take power directly from the battery. No flicker because there running of relays
Two little ressistors cure the LAMPF error.
Cost was ok the HIDs were from flea bay for £39.12 and a couple of 30amp replays fuses and bits of wire and connectors about £10
The result is fantastic!
Im chuffed.
Hi Mike, what value resistors did you use? did you try lower values that didn't work?
Well done, Martin
chipsonfriday
Registered user
Job done
Fitted the two 50w HIDs (to dip and main beam) at 8000K
Must have a looksee on mine. I currently have the ballast for the dipped sitting on the headlamp unit. Its OK but I would much prefer to 'hide' it.
Whats the 'warmup' time on your main beam like. Mine took about four seconds so I removed it and re-fitted the bog standard bulb in its place.
Chips
Mikefirefighter
Guest
Four seconds ! ouch no wonder you removed it.
Mine light up in about say half a second. There is a tiny delay, maybe using full sized ballasts helps but Im no expert.
The resistor is a 3ohm. It just ups the resistance to make up the resistance between the resistance of the relay and the resistance of the bulb.
Mine light up in about say half a second. There is a tiny delay, maybe using full sized ballasts helps but Im no expert.
The resistor is a 3ohm. It just ups the resistance to make up the resistance between the resistance of the relay and the resistance of the bulb.
How do you have that 3ohm resistor wired in Mike, if its in parallel with the relay to ground, it could be drawing 4.6a - 65w, does it get pretty hot?
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