Lithium batteries - chargers

[Slipperyeel]

Not sure which section to put this in.

Decided I really have to get a new battery. Mine losses enough to prevent starting by the next day. Its had it.

So, I'm going to go for a lithium battery. But working with the idea it'll arrive with a 60% charge at best, I'll need to give it a head start with a full charge. Meaning I'll need a LiFePO compatible charger.

My problem is, after looking there is a huge assortment with big price differences. I'm not clear of those saying they will charge all types of battery really can?

Anyone got experience with these?

Cheers



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[wessie]

not used one but have heard good things about these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192566356805

https://no.co/g1100 is the maker's website

Also works via canbus socket

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Not sure which section to put this in.

Decided I really have to get a new battery. Mine losses enough to prevent starting by the next day. Its had it.

So, I'm going to go for a lithium battery. But working with the idea it'll arrive with a 60% charge at best, I'll need to give it a head start with a full charge. Meaning I'll need a LiFePO compatible charger.

My problem is, after looking there is a huge assortment with big price differences. I'm not clear of those saying they will charge all types of battery really can?

Anyone got experience with these?

Cheers



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Lithium batteries work differently from the stock batteries, let the charge go to low and they will be dead as a barn door, however +1 for the battery charger above it does the job.

 

[JJH]

First of all are you sure your own battery is the culprit? Is there something draining it? Now on to lithium. It is very lightly that the battery will arrive fully charged. That is one of the advantages of lithium they don’t self discharge and have a very long shelf life. The charger is the tricky one. My understanding is that an ordinary old fashioned charger will do. It’s the more modern smart chargers that can go into a recovery mode and put out a higher voltage that do the damage as lithium can’t tolerate this higher charge. Motorworks are selling lithium battery’s at a good price as far as I can see. I put one into my sons nsr 125 and it’s working away no problem. That’s my penny’s worth. JJH

 

[JJH]

First of all are you sure your own battery is the culprit? Is there something draining it? Now on to lithium. It is very lightly that the battery will arrive fully charged. That is one of the advantages of lithium they don’t self discharge and have a very long shelf life. The charger is the tricky one. My understanding is that an ordinary old fashioned charger will do. It’s the more modern smart chargers that can go into a recovery mode and put out a higher voltage that do the damage as lithium can’t tolerate this higher charge. Motorworks are selling lithium battery’s at a good price as far as I can see. I put one into my sons nsr 125 and it’s working away no problem. That’s my penny’s worth. JJH

Just to clarify I didn’t get the nsr battery from Motorworks.

 

[Slipperyeel]

Thanks for the feedback gents.

JJH raises one of the points that is on my mind. In so much that a 'do it all' charger has the risk of going into the wrong mode and buggering up a perfectly good (lithium) battery. Or is that not true?

I'm probably over thinking it - it's just that I like to at least understand the concept of things - presumably the lithium batteries are all equipped with some kind of controller and is this controller that stands in between the lithium cells and the charge coming in/going out? And therefore it is this controller that instructs one of these 'smart chargers' which mode to use. A little like USB devises instruct it to be recognised as media device/modem/network adapter etc. Still with me? It's this how they're working?

JJH - I'm 100% convinced is the just the battery. It's 8 years old now. To be honest, it's behaving just like all the aged batteries I've ever had. It might benefit from a maintenence cycle charge. But at 8 years old...I think it's time for something new and lighter!



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[JJH]

Thanks for the feedback gents.

JJH raises one of the points that is on my mind. In so much that a 'do it all' charger has the risk of going into the wrong mode and buggering up a perfectly good (lithium) battery. Or is that not true?

I'm probably over thinking it - it's just that I like to at least understand the concept of things - presumably the lithium batteries are all equipped with some kind of controller and is this controller that stands in between the lithium cells and the charge coming in/going out? And therefore it is this controller that instructs one of these 'smart chargers' which mode to use. A little like USB devises instruct it to be recognised as media device/modem/network adapter etc. Still with me? It's this how they're working?

JJH - I'm 100% convinced is the just the battery. It's 8 years old now. To be honest, it's behaving just like all the aged batteries I've ever had. It might benefit from a maintenence cycle charge. But at 8 years old...I think it's time for something new and lighter!



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At 8 its not worth the effort. Its just going to let u down. JJH

 

[philbuck]

I can understand your concerns about the LiPo battery and it's charging aspects.

For what it's worth, I've been involved with LiPo batteries for years in modelling and FULLY appreciate that they need to be treated with a LOT or respect! I have many chargers that I used to charge my LiPos up with (some of the batteries cost £150 each), so you learn to look after them. They have very specific charging/discharging rates etc, and if the voltage falls below a critical value (per cell), the recovery process is not only difficult, but fraught with danger!! I have seen too many fires with them, and when they do go up, you don't want to be anywhere near them. hence I won't be sitting on one any time soon!!

My other concern is that (having said they need proper chargers), we promptly stick them on a bike that is designed for a different style of battery and how to charge it, and may not be able to detect thermal runaway, which is when the problems arise.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Greg Masters]

https://www.ctek.com/products/vehicle/lithium-xs

Have a look at the CTEK Lithium XS

 

[Slipperyeel]

I can understand your concerns about the LiPo battery and it's charging aspects.

For what it's worth, I've been involved with LiPo batteries for years in modelling and FULLY appreciate that they need to be treated with a LOT or respect! I have many chargers that I used to charge my LiPos up with (some of the batteries cost £150 each), so you learn to look after them. They have very specific charging/discharging rates etc, and if the voltage falls below a critical value (per cell), the recovery process is not only difficult, but fraught with danger!! I have seen too many fires with them, and when they do go up, you don't want to be anywhere near them. hence I won't be sitting on one any time soon!!

My other concern is that (having said they need proper chargers), we promptly stick them on a bike that is designed for a different style of battery and how to charge it, and may not be able to detect thermal runaway, which is when the problems arise.

Just my thoughts.

I've been unfortunate enough to have had involvement with titanium fires. They are very scary! I've also had some fun showing my son what happens when you puncture a phone lithium battery. Again, that's a pretty uncontrollable event! So I understand your thinking! But I'm riding around on a bike with a plastic petrol tank, which by all accounts should be risky since its full of really explosive liquid . So in the list of risks, I'd pin it low down - possible, but unlikely.

But you do raise a point that had also crossed my mind. Fitting a different type of battery onto the bike that's designed to charge a conventional old school battery. The only answer I've found is that the bike electrics simply supply a consistent level of charge with no fancy pulsing or cycling. In which case, that is precisely what a lithium battery needs. So in theory all is well. But I'd welcome confirmation of my thinking!



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[Slipperyeel]

https://www.ctek.com/products/vehicle/lithium-xs

Have a look at the CTEK Lithium XS

Just had a look. Very expensive! I just wanted something in the cupboard that I might never need! But I also thought I would like to start off with the new battery fully charged...

Contrary to comments above, lithium batteries cannot be shipped fully charged - 60% maximum. Additionally, they are stored at 30-60% charge. I'd be surprised if the sellers are charging before shipping especially as that would be against the rules... Hence my looking for a charger now rather than later. I know the bike will charge it, but i haven't got time to go out for 2-3hrs on a spin just to charge the battery - sadly!




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[Popell]

Surely one way would be to keep whatever old-school charger you have and buy a small conventional battery (lead acid), rig that up with a small set of jump leads and when the odd occasion arises that the fable LiPo needs a boost, just parrallel the Lead acid to it - no chance of spiking the Lipo, and you have a ready 12v source for fannying around with in the garage. Will also provide jump start capability for if you're in a rush or the car goes bosoms up

 

[philbuck]

The only answer I've found is that the bike electrics simply supply a consistent level of charge with no fancy pulsing or cycling. In which case, that is precisely what a lithium battery needs. So in theory all is well. But I'd welcome confirmation of my thinking!

That's partly my point..........
For me, I'd want to know that the charging system on my bike was NEVER going to try to overcharge the LiPo, and hence go into thermal runaway, which is what you're paying for on the dedicated LiPo battery chargers. I just don't know if the bike charging system caters for that, so I can only assume that the manufacturers of bike LiPo batteries have looked into this, and deemed it safe.
JMO

 

[Slipperyeel]

Surely one way would be to keep whatever old-school charger you have and buy a small conventional battery (lead acid), rig that up with a small set of jump leads and when the odd occasion arises that the fable LiPo needs a boost, just parrallel the Lead acid to it - no chance of spiking the Lipo, and you have a ready 12v source for fannying around with in the garage. Will also provide jump start capability for if you're in a rush or the car goes bosoms up

That is a very sensible idea.



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[Slipperyeel]

That's partly my point..........
For me, I'd want to know that the charging system on my bike was NEVER going to try to overcharge the LiPo, and hence go into thermal runaway, which is what you're paying for on the dedicated LiPo battery chargers. I just don't know if the bike charging system caters for that, so I can only assume that the manufacturers of bike LiPo batteries have looked into this, and deemed it safe.
JMO

Like you, I'm rather hoping that controller inside the battery deals with the overcharge issue...!

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[Deleted account 191119001]

Like you, I'm rather hoping that controller inside the battery deals with the overcharge issue...!

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It does and for what it is worth I had a Antigravity lithium battery in my Harley, sold bike to a mate, battery still perfect after 3 years, and used a Optimate battery charger specially for Lithium, same as in link below, just put a pigtail directly to battery.

https://tecmate.com/products/optimatelith0-8/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OptiMATE-L...7979&sr=8-1&keywords=OptiMATE+Lithium+4s+0.8A

 

[Slipperyeel]

It does and for what it is worth I had a Antigravity lithium battery in my Harley, sold bike to a mate, battery still perfect after 3 years, and used a Optimate battery charger specially for Lithium, same as in link below, just put a pigtail directly to battery.

https://tecmate.com/products/optimatelith0-8/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OptiMATE-L...7979&sr=8-1&keywords=OptiMATE+Lithium+4s+0.8A

Thanks for that. I'm definitely on for trying a lithium. So your comments and JJH's are useful.

I'm interested to see how long they last and what they're like through all seasons (temp ranges).


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[Deleted account 191119001]

Thanks for that. I'm definitely on for trying a lithium. So your comments and JJH's are useful.

I'm interested to see how long they last and what they're like through all seasons (temp ranges).


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They have come on leaps and bounds over the years, I think you might surprise yourself, good youtube video below, I had one of these but not exactly the same, you need to look on their website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzW0VsJt2xE

https://www.antigravitybatteries-uk.co.uk/re-startoem-batteries.html

 

[wessie]

just had an email form M&P - Optimate LiPo charger discounted from £63 to £50
https://www.mandp.co.uk/optimate-3-...-99739725&mc_cid=a6a5c27ed5&mc_eid=5cf5847fa8

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

just had an email form M&P - Optimate LiPo charger discounted from £63 to £50
https://www.mandp.co.uk/optimate-3-...-99739725&mc_cid=a6a5c27ed5&mc_eid=5cf5847fa8

Used or new................