Long Tail backs and Solid centre white line.

[Davey B]

Just where does it state the definition of stationary? (Googled it)
Not moving.... OR...... not intended to be moved
A stationary vehicle that IS FOR SURE stopped in a queue, whether momentary or prolonged, then without a definition / clarification stating the contrary, it's stationary as far as I am concerned and solid white line can be crossed to pass, providing it is safe to do so.
But the moment any vehicle ahead starts crawling forward, get back in and wait.
Think the 'to pass a stationary vehicle' is the important piece here for us motorcyclists, as cars generally cannot pass queuing traffic like we can.....but we have to have that safe place to pull in planned ahead when we do pass (in the way that cars can't)
Likewise, in another controversial move, you can overtake moving/stationary vehicles on the approach to a pedestrian crossing, but not the lead vehicle....if it's safe to do so....

Rule 129 HIGHWAY CODE​

Double white lines where the line nearer to you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

By this way of thinking.... If the canny 'stationary' car driver has left a decent gap between the front of their car and the actual lights at, lets say, temporary roadworks lights...surely a car driver could also pass the queue and pop themselves in the gap at the front? What is it that makes us as motorcyclists able to do it (legally) ?

 

[Steve398]

Like so many urban myths:

Lots of bikermates do it so it’s OK… until something goes wrong.

In a ‘former life’ I’ve done lots of road users for the offence, so for me it just doesn’t feel right and I don’t do it.

 

[FatAl]

Like so many urban myths:

Lots of bikermates do it so it’s OK… until something goes wrong.

In a ‘former life’ I’ve done lots of road users for the offence, so for me it just doesn’t feel right and I don’t do it.

cars and bikes for crossing the solid whites whilst driving at 'normal' speeds, or carefully crossing the solid to pass a stationary vehicle/s at very slow speed?
Do you feel the same about speed limits?

 

[FatAl]

By this way of thinking.... If the canny 'stationary' car driver has left a decent gap between the front of their car and the actual lights at, lets say, temporary roadworks lights...surely a car driver could also pass the queue and pop themselves in the gap at the front? What is it that makes us as motorcyclists able to do it (legally) ?

our size and agility? I couldn't see a car driver attempting what you describe, it's unlikely they'd even be able to see the gaps ahead of them before they even moved well across the line. I wouldn't contemplate it in a car.

 

[Steve398]

cars and bikes for crossing the solid whites whilst driving at 'normal' speeds, or carefully crossing the solid to pass a stationary vehicle/s at very slow speed?
Do you feel the same about speed limits?

Pretty much, I’m not a ‘holier than thou’ person, it’s just a personal choice.
On all of the Police courses I’ve done intentionally popping a white line was a definite ’no-no’, so the habit sticks.
If I went for an overtake approaching a white line and the overtaken vehicle speeds up I’d prefer to exceed the speed limit to complete it safely than clip the white line. The logic’s a bit weird I confess as they both carry points/fine, but (for me) the solid white line is put there for a reason, the speed limits applied on some roads seem completely arbitrary, but I do try to keep to them.

 

[Davey B]

our size and agility? I couldn't see a car driver attempting what you describe, it's unlikely they'd even be able to see the gaps ahead of them before they even moved well across the line. I wouldn't contemplate it in a car.

True....it was about the legality of it and what a traffic cop (are there still such things in the UK?) would do if they saw a car or SUV waltz down the outside and snick in to a gap.
(I've seen it done in Bradford, generally by a certain group of the populace, and seen the negative reaction by fellow queue members. I've also frequently done it myself on the bike, but never in a car, and often had car drivers manoeuvre a little to the left, a cheery wave by me and never seen a bad reaction from those waiting in the queue)

 

[G&T]

I was browsing around other forums on this subject matter and found what reads like a ‘coppers perspective.’

It is not an offence to pass a stationery vehicle within the confines of a solid white line system, either by staying inside it, or crossing over it, provided you do so with due care and attention and safely. The law is quite specific about the stationery bit, and as has been pointed out a court will simply look the word up in a dictorary. There is some folklore amongst Traffic cops that stationery does not include "vehicles temporarily held up". This has no basis in law but it does explain why a large number of them think it is illegal and will even stop and stick people on for it. Fortunately it is only their time they are wasting, the process doesn't make it past CPS providing......
The overtake is only not illegal under the Road Traffic Regulations Act (the white line offence). Consider why the white line is there in the first place. Going over a brow at 60mph on the wrong side of a white line system is likely attract a dangerous riding charge, forcing oncoming traffic to swerve as you come round a blind bend one of without due care, riding down the middle of a line twanging wing mirrors one of inconsiderate riding. If on the other hand it is on the approach to a level crossing, the barriers are down, and the 9:31 from Paddington is going past at 70mph it is unlikely there will be any oncoming traffic, so providing you can make it to a safe location (don't cross the stop line at the front) you shouldn't have to much to fear, ditto filtering past a line of traffic with a clear view of the road ahead. (Ps: watch out for irate drivers opening their doors to see what the hold up is!)

 

[Davey B]

I'm not sure why the CPS would be involved in most cases of crossing a solid white....it wouldbe dealt with via a Fixed Penalty Ticket in most cases....so most would pay up and suck the points.
I hate the use of 'should' anywhere near anything legal. It is a shit word in stuff like this.

 

[FatAl]

Pretty much, I’m not a ‘holier than thou’ person, it’s just a personal choice.
On all of the Police courses I’ve done intentionally popping a white line was a definite ’no-no’, so the habit sticks.
If I went for an overtake approaching a white line and the overtaken vehicle speeds up I’d prefer to exceed the speed limit to complete it safely than clip the white line. The logic’s a bit weird I confess as they both carry points/fine, but (for me) the solid white line is put there for a reason, the speed limits applied on some roads seem completely arbitrary, but I do try to keep to them.

I understand your point about it being a 'no-no' on police courses. I agree that the solid white line should be obeyed when travelling at speed, as you say they are there for a reason. However the debate is about 'carefully' passing stationary vehicle/s where the road is clear and there is a clear view ahead, there are spaces to slip into if necessary, and your speed is very low. I doubt very much I would have issued a ticket if witnessing such an event.
On speeding I always try to ride as I was trained, so always within the marked speed limits, and in the 'ding' sign areas I ride at a speed I deem to be safe for the conditions, which on occasion may be illegal.
There's not much point in spending umpteen thousands of quids on a Wankpanzer if you're just going to stick within the posted national speed limit on fairly empty roads, we may as well have a 125 or a Royal Enfield, not that I am advocating people should break the law. As you say some speed limits seem to be rather arbitrary, and after having spent a short time working in accident prevention and traffic management prior to retirement I do wonder about the logic of the placing of some speed limits.

 

[snelly]

Pretty much, I’m not a ‘holier than thou’ person, it’s just a personal choice.
On all of the Police courses I’ve done intentionally popping a white line was a definite ’no-no’, so the habit sticks.
If I went for an overtake approaching a white line and the overtaken vehicle speeds up I’d prefer to exceed the speed limit to complete it safely than clip the white line. The logic’s a bit weird I confess as they both carry points/fine, but (for me) the solid white line is put there for a reason, the speed limits applied on some roads seem completely arbitrary, but I do try to keep to them.

I think it's more dangerous to unintentionally pop a white line; but that could be just me.

 

[stever1]

I understand your point about it being a 'no-no' on police courses. I agree that the solid white line should be obeyed when travelling at speed, as you say they are there for a reason. However the debate is about 'carefully' passing stationary vehicle/s where the road is clear and there is a clear view ahead, there are spaces to slip into if necessary, and your speed is very low. I doubt very much I would have issued a ticket if witnessing such an event.
On speeding I always try to ride as I was trained, so always within the marked speed limits, and in the 'ding' sign areas I ride at a speed I deem to be safe for the conditions, which on occasion may be illegal.
There's not much point in spending umpteen thousands of quids on a Wankpanzer if you're just going to stick within the posted national speed limit on fairly empty roads, we may as well have a 125 or a Royal Enfield, not that I am advocating people should break the law. As you say some speed limits seem to be rather arbitrary, and after having spent a short time working in accident prevention and traffic management prior to retirement I do wonder about the logic of the placing of some speed limits.

You’re not ‘carefully’ passing a stationary vehicle if it’s an illegal manoeuvre though. You wild thing
I got done in 2011 for this very thing. The NIP , or the paperwork that followed actually gave details of the actual offence. Riding in contravention of the RTA ++++. Section so and so.
It then gave it in layman’s terms.
Imagine my embarrassment when I turned up for the bad boys rehabilitation class and both my police instructor for cars and bikes was there.
Humble pie never tasted so bitter

 

[richardbd]

You gotta love the way this place reduces what is a simple and clear matter of law to a subject of opinion and debate…

 

[septikangel]

Have just watched an old Men&Motors Youtube video, wherein a Traffic Police officer wrongly stated you cannot even overtake a car that moves over to its nearside on a wide road to let you pass, even if you don't cross the solid white line on your side.
I know that this particular officer is/was actually a very good 'un, but it just shows how much open to personal interpretation / confusion this issue causes.
Nowhere, I mean nowhere, can I find a definition of 'stationary' within the Highway code or RTA1988, but the English dictionary does state this.....

Meaning of stationary in English​

stationary
adjective
UK
Add to word list
not moving, or not changing:
a stationary car/train
The traffic got slower and slower until it was stationary.

And I think that last part for me says it all.
I am and will continue to be very careful on my travels, but if the occasion arose whereby I was going to sit behind a mile or three of cages this summer, I'd seriously consider, if safe to do so, overtaking those stationary vehicles by crossing any solid white line on my side........... IF SAFE TO DO SO.
I'd reconsider that option clearly if plod was nearby, only 'cos they'd likely stop me and it'd be inconvenient having to plead my innocence at court etc, but without a specific direction / definition of stationary, I'm going with the English dictionary definition as above Your Honour / My Lord.........

 

[EPG_19]

A vehicle not moving, i.e in a queue is stationary - right?

So I just looked up the HC and it also says...

“You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26”

Correct and not tractors as people think

 

[EPG_19]

Have just watched an old Men&Motors Youtube video, wherein a Traffic Police officer wrongly stated you cannot even overtake a car that moves over to its nearside on a wide road to let you pass, even if you don't cross the solid white line on your side.
I know that this particular officer is/was actually a very good 'un, but it just shows how much open to personal interpretation / confusion this issue causes.
Nowhere, I mean nowhere, can I find a definition of 'stationary' within the Highway code or RTA1988, but the English dictionary does state this.....

Meaning of stationary in English​

stationary
adjective
UK
Add to word list
not moving, or not changing:
a stationary car/train
The traffic got slower and slower until it was stationary.

And I think that last part for me says it all.
I am and will continue to be very careful on my travels, but if the occasion arose whereby I was going to sit behind a mile or three of cages this summer, I'd seriously consider, if safe to do so, overtaking those stationary vehicles by crossing any solid white line on my side........... IF SAFE TO DO SO.
I'd reconsider that option clearly if plod was nearby, only 'cos they'd likely stop me and it'd be inconvenient having to plead my innocence at court etc, but without a specific direction / definition of stationary, I'm going with the English dictionary definition as above Your Honour / My Lord.........

It’s in many places especially when using a mobile phone

 

[FatAl]

You’re not ‘carefully’ passing a stationary vehicle if it’s an illegal manoeuvre though. You wild thing
I got done in 2011 for this very thing. The NIP , or the paperwork that followed actually gave details of the actual offence. Riding in contravention of the RTA ++++. Section so and so.
It then gave it in layman’s terms.
Imagine my embarrassment when I turned up for the bad boys rehabilitation class and both my police instructor for cars and bikes was there.
Humble pie never tasted so bitter

Well after three pages of what constitutes 'stationary' I'm fcuked if I'm going to engage in what 'carefully' means.
I'm now off to take Stu to get his new bike. No doubt our two great legal minds will discuss this conundrum

 

[Santa-2512]

Its quite simple

The law states do not cross unless a proscribed set of circumstances occur.

Bikermate will argue / bend /ignore that rule as they see fit

Rinse and repeat until they caught, fined or maimed / killed

 

[G&T]

I’m an Englishman, proud of my language and very clear on what ‘stationary’ means. Woe betide anyone, who says otherwise.

 

[FatAl]

Its quite simple

The law states do not cross unless a proscribed set of circumstances occur.

Bikermate will argue / bend /ignore that rule as they see fit

Rinse and repeat until they caught, fined or maimed / killed

It just depends on the cop who sees it, then if it doesn't go the way you want it take your chance in court if you feel so inclined.

 

[Daffy]

What if you were on the other side of a broken line and it went to solid, would you be breaking the law if you stayed out there as you hadn’t crossed the solid line but rather stayed out there…

I actually asked this of a police motorcyclist friend and he said you could argue that one but good luck in court.

Seriously I went through an amber traffic light years ago, it was snowing and I didn’t want to slam my brakes on as I thought I’d stop in the middle of the junction.

I pleaded guilty and sent the form back with what I thought was mitigating reasons to do so, the court replied and asked if I wanted to plead not guilty. I thought this was their way of telling me that I would be let off - how wrong I was, they well and truly screwed me, huge fine, costs and the endorsement (I said it was a long time ago).

The morale of the story is everyone likes a nice arse but nobody likes a smart arse. Do what you want but if you take a risk you should also be prepared to take the pain - personally I will pass if I can keep my tyres inside the lines but wouldn’t cross it if the traffic was stopped.

To answer Richard’s question re the tunnel queue, hell yes I would go to the front but other bikes shouldn’t as I might have to queue behind them.