Everything you state sounds right and logical to me. But in my case the lowered bike sat lower to the ground all the time. I’m not suggesting folks should be wary of the lowered bikes (pre self level that is ) you’ve got to be really going some on undulating roads for them to bottom out.
Low/Standard Suspension
- Thread starter Ant1200
- Start date
Everything you state sounds right and logical to me. But in my case the lowered bike sat lower to the ground all the time. I’m not suggesting folks should be wary of the lowered bikes (pre self level that is ) you’ve got to be really going some on undulating roads for them to bottom out.
fred_jb
Registered user
Well you are right, they do sit a bit lower to the ground, that's the point of them after all, but I was just trying explore whether the difference is enough to be significant in normal riding. If yours was prone to bottoming out then maybe there was another issue at play - maybe insufficient preload or underdamping? Was it factory lowered, in which case it should have had stiffer springs to complement the reduced travel? If not, and it was an aftermarket setup, maybe that was too softly sprung for the reduced ride height. The other point I was trying to make, and I'm not totally sure about this, is that I believe that both versions have the same minimum ride height at the point where the suspension is fully compressed, so in extreme cases there shouldn't be any difference.
Mine was factory ordered and fwiw I know two other riders who had same bike as me - a pre self level GSA factory lowered and they also found same as me. My belief, although I could be wrong, is that on maximum load the bikes do sit lower. I’m not making a factual statement but just sharing my experience. Hope you manage to get the facts to assist you. When I mentioned problem to my dealer they agreed it will always ride lower either loaded or not. But they could have been guessing ?
I’ve come to the conclusion that dealers will just tell you what they think you want to hear. From now on, the only time I ask a dealer a question is to discretely test their knowledge... I now do all my own research. There are so many guys on this forum who have excellent knowledge and are willing to share it. 
fred_jb
Registered user
Yes the lowered bikes start out lower, which is kind of the point after all, but the difference will diminish under higher loads, to the point that there will be no difference in minimum ground clearance once the suspension is fully compressed. If you think that is not the case, then consider what happens on maximum load, i.e. in a situation when all the suspension travel is used up and the shocks have bottomed out. For the ground clearance at this point to be less on the lowered bike would mean that at the rear the shaft drive would have to have a bigger range of upwards movement on the lowered bike, which I think is most unlikely, as that could bring the tyre dangerously close to the underside of the seat. Similar issue with the front wheel if that was able to go further upwards at maximum compression, so if the wheels can only rise to the same point relative to the chassis on both bikes, and the wheels are the same size, then the minimum ground clearance will be the same.
Not to argue but the reduced shaft on the suspension unit and shorter spring will be lower but will bottom out in the same way as the Original , so I think it would be lower as both units should bottom out on the unit bump stop not the frame .
This can happen on an enduro bike for instance ( bottoming out) as the travel is so much more than a mixed road/offroad bike.
Karlos
Registered user
I have the low suspension model. My understanding is that it is shorter springs. Everything else is the same apart from the amount of suspension travel. The bike doesn’t get any lower to the ground at maximum suspension travel.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All I can say is that in reality the lowered version sits lower when not being ridden and when it is ridden continues to sit lower to the ground. If you were to put the two bikes side by side and measure the ground clearance then the lowered bike sits lower, as expected. If you then were to put a 25 stone weight on each bike, they would both be nearer to the ground, however the lowered bike would still have less ground clearance. This is why when under full load the lowered versions can bottom out.
fred_jb
Registered user
I totally agree with what you are saying, with the possible exception of the last sentence. I disagree with that because I believe that both bikes will bottom out under the same amount of extreme loading, and that when they do it is very likely that they will be the same distance from the ground, as I don't see any reason why the bump stop should come into operation sooner on the non-lowered bike than the lowered one. That would just be a waste of some of the wheel travel allowed by the chassis. Of course it is difficult to prove this, but I would bet that under extreme loading both bikes hit their bump stops at the same distance from the ground. If not, then you would be right to say that the lowered bike is always lower even when bottomed out.
However, I would also say that there is no reason why the lowered bike should bottom out under a lessor amount of load than that which would cause the standard bike to do so. I'm sure I read that the lowered bike has a stronger spring for precisely that reason, so requiring more load per mm of compression. If this is true it means that both should be capable of taking more or less the same load at the point when all the suspension travel gets used up. Just because the lowered bike has less travel it doesn't mean that it can't support the same loads, just that the spring compresses less for a given load than the one on the non-lowered bike.
In other words, for the same amount of load both bikes will use up the same percentage (note not the same amount) of their available travel, which of course means that the non-lowered bike starts off higher than the lowered bike, but as loading increases the difference diminishes until once they have both used up 100% of their travel they end up at the same level, though as already noted, this is only true if assuming the bump stops are in the same place.
fred_jb
Registered user
Didn't realise you had an RS as well - lucky man!
I find it is really difficult comparing different BMW bikes, because it is hard to find much comparative technical detail of detailed stuff like spring rates. However, the RS definitely has less suspension travel - 140 mm versus, I think from memory, 180 mm for the lowered GS and 200 for the standard GS, or something like that. It also doesn't have the self leveling suspension of the latest GS, so only has the three fixed preload settings. Could be that there is not so big a range of preload adjustment with these compared to the same settings on the earlier GS, and maybe the spring rate is a bit lower than the GS, as it may be a tad more biased towards solo use, but who knows!I leave the preload on my GS in AUTO mode, and I know my GS wallows a little bit in those situations in the ROAD damping setting, and my wife says it is less comfortable in DYNAMIC so we don't use that two-up, but it never feels like it is getting anywhere near to bottoming out. I wanted an RS initially and if it had been for solo use would have had one as I think they are lovely bikes, but when I tested it two-up I didn't think it coped as well as the GS, and wasn't so stable at low speed. My wife had the last word on the decision because she said the RS was less comfortable and she got more wind blast! Still - now I have the GS set up to my liking I'm very happy with it.
The RS isn’t mine but a good pal who went from four continuous GS bikes and fancied a change as he felt the RS would be smaller and easier to handle in terms of weight. After his experience of it bottoming out plus the fact that it didn’t corner as well as the GS, he switched back to a GS. It’s like yours with the new self levelling suspension which he likes. I have the latest GSA tb and like you ride most in auto suspension and road mode when it’s on bumpy roads and dynamic on better surfaces.
Troppo
Bemused observer
Yep - exactly.
When some pals and I were returning from a Spain trip we met a chap on the ferry who was a very experienced technical bod who used to work on professional racing bikes. He reckoned that the angle of the forks is not quite right on the RS and hence the problem. To be fair the RS on normal riding is fine but when pushing really fast round sharp bends it becomes a problem and the very capable friend on his RS couldn’t keep up with me on a GS in the serious twisted.
That is why the GS is what it is , a brilliant , honest bike that delivers all that you expect and more ........if I had a stronger table the GS would have been there as well ol
I don’t know much about them, but I’m sure earlier RS’s had Telelever front ends?! If they did, why are they now on ordinary forks?
R and RS both launched with conventional forks.
fred_jb
Registered user
The original R1150R had Telelever:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_BMW_motorcycles#/media/File:Telelever04.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_BMW_motorcycles#/media/File:Telelever04.jpg
steveC
Registered user
That comment is so true. My experience leaves me so frustrated and angry that a sales executive doesn't know the product. I bought a used bmw 1 series about 2 months ago. (BMW Garage) It was for my daughter. I did my research as I have never driven or owned a BMW car.
At the end of the buying experience I felt my knowledge was greater than his. In his defence he had about 1 years sales experience with BMW but came from another multinational franchise.
At the end of the buying experience I felt my knowledge was greater than his. In his defence he had about 1 years sales experience with BMW but came from another multinational franchise.
I’ve come to the conclusion that dealers will just tell you what they think you want to hear. From now on, the only time I ask a dealer a question is to discretely test their knowledge... I now do all my own research. There are so many guys on this forum who have excellent knowledge and are willing to share it.
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