Need a little help...bike has cut out

[Slipperyeel]

Some side notes.

I asked if they had any idea why it failed. The answer was no.1 the age of the bike (though I'm not wholly convinced with that?).

He went on to say that accessories tax the alternator/regulator much more and accelerate their demise. In my case the main accessory has been heated clothing only, for several years. Only recently I added the dashcam and lastly the heated seat. Maybe these last two were the final straw?

Walking around a showroom full of new bikes, you can imagine where my mind was heading. But interestingly he said the new bikes (1250 and 1300) are much more fragile (electrically) because there are so many native accessories that the system has little to spare... He said your bike is the last of the tanks!

I also said I have the mind to go for a 1300 next spring. He said good timing. Get the next version without the issues .

So do I keep the old girl or get a newer one?!

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[theoneandonly]

heated seat will suck current , the camera hardly any i would have thought.

 

[The Other PaulG]

So do I keep the old girl or get a newer one?!

JB will be along with a third option, shortly!

Good to hear it's looking positive so far re the troubleshooting.

 

[Slipperyeel]

heated seat will suck current , the camera hardly any i would have thought.

I agree. Much the same as my thinking. But I would have expected the alternator to cope ok with all that?

Accessories connected (directly to the battery) :

• Heated clothing
• Heated seat via the PDM (set to fuse at 10A)
• Dashcam
• Phone on charge (plugged into the OEM accessory socket)
• Satnav via the BMW loom connection

It has the fog/marker lights always on. I guess they count as an accessory?

Maybe a poor earth also stretched it to the limit also?

A few if's! Interested in thoughts on the list above. It's that lot expecting to much of a 60A alternator?







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[boatman]

What you are describing is I think a regulator / rectifier ?
On some bikes they are very sensitive to getting a good connection , if not they “ fail “

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

JB will be along with a third option, shortly!

As night follows day …..buy a 1150

On a serious note - the 1200 (2004-2012) do seem to have an incredibly fragile alternator in terms of corrosion and electrical performance, coupled with a Gen1 Canbus system which can be troublesome

Not saying the 1100/1150 are perfect and do suffer from premature degradation of the wiring loom

 

[Lord Snooty]

Update.

Still stuck here in Metz
But this morning, after insisting my recovery outfit got me and the bike back to the dealer, we got there.
Big credit to the dealer. They were onto it immediately.

They have found the problem. It's the voltage regulator, which we all know is part of the bloody alternator . They explained that when testing it, there were multiple failures and reconnections. So it finally died, until it came back to life again, before dying again

Incredibly, they will have the new one this afternoon! And... it's a Denso unit... Apparently the new unit also comes with a replacement earth cable as I asked if they could replace that also.

So. I pick it up tomorrow after lunch and head home, finally. They have given me a loan bike foc, which is great.

Will report back if I get home without more trouble!



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Great news, have a safe journey home

 

[Slipperyeel]

What you are describing is I think a regulator / rectifier ?
On some bikes they are very sensitive to getting a good connection , if not they “ fail “

Yes. Precisely that. Just being lazy in my description! I do remember when the regulator/rectifier was a separate component to the alternator. I'm not sure what the advantages are having them as a single unit?

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[boatman]

Yes. Precisely that. Just being lazy in my description! I do remember when the regulator/rectifier was a separate component to the alternator. I'm not sure what the advantages are having them as a single unit?

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Probably to make the whole thing compact - less wiring .
I have had several Yamaha XT 660 Z ,s over the years and one of the few known faults was failure of the reg rec .
When I got my first one it was obvious what the issue was , - very exposed at the front of the motor and the plug when removed was usually coated in verdigris , solution clean , fill with ACF 50 occasionally - job done
Also worth mentioning , on my 1200 ADV TC - it never cranked fast even when I bought it with only 800 miles on it . Fast forward 55000 miles and it refused on the button one day .
Starter out - properly disassembled - cleaned - new brush box - tank off earth cleaned = starting but still slow , I put in an extra new earth cable - bang it was like it should have been when it left the factory the earth cable was surprisingly thin for a 1200 cc twin cyl .

 

[Flintlock]

2010 GSA, approaching 107,000 miles. I have never had any accessories plugged in, other than the Satnav occasionally. No alarm. Don't use the spots unless there's fog.The plastic on the spots have gone ,so now have had to secure them to the guards with cable ties.
Final drive went at 75000 miles - up at the gearbox end, rapid reduction in power, but limped on to a Service Station I knew where I could sit in comfort,drink coffee & await recovery.
Starter motor replaced around 72000 miles
Fuel strip gone (not bothered) - zero the clock on each refill - some tape on the screen to hide the warning.
Tyre pressure monitor starting to go (Comes up on the display),at around 90,000 miles (not bothered, my 1100GS didn't have one) - it still works tho as I picked up a slow puncture on the rear tyre & it flashed up on the screen.
She has served me well, my best bike ever.
Hope this isn't the kiss of death lol

 

[Robbi]

2010 GSA, approaching 107,000 miles. I have never had any accessories plugged in, other than the Satnav occasionally. No alarm. Don't use the spots unless there's fog.The plastic on the spots have gone ,so now have had to secure them to the guards with cable ties.
Final drive went at 75000 miles - up at the gearbox end, rapid reduction in power, but limped on to a Service Station I knew where I could sit in comfort,drink coffee & await recovery.
Starter motor replaced around 72000 miles
Fuel strip gone (not bothered) - zero the clock on each refill - some tape on the screen to hide the warning.
Tyre pressure monitor starting to go (Comes up on the display),at around 90,000 miles (not bothered, my 1100GS didn't have one) - it still works tho as I picked up a slow puncture on the rear tyre & it flashed up on the screen.
She has served me well, my best bike ever.
Hope this isn't the kiss of death lol

Ssshhhh !!

 

[DrFarkoff]

Maybe a poor earth also stretched it to the limit also?

..... It wouldn't Be helping "but" really that should Only show under high load situations like starting

A good "Clean" of accessible connections and a good lash of ACF50 in the connectors and Earth points is a good call Especially if you are going to use it over winter

I wonder were the brushes badly worn etc etc ??

 

[Slipperyeel]

Probably to make the whole thing compact - less wiring .
I have had several Yamaha XT 660 Z ,s over the years and one of the few known faults was failure of the reg rec .
When I got my first one it was obvious what the issue was , - very exposed at the front of the motor and the plug when removed was usually coated in verdigris , solution clean , fill with ACF 50 occasionally - job done
Also worth mentioning , on my 1200 ADV TC - it never cranked fast even when I bought it with only 800 miles on it . Fast forward 55000 miles and it refused on the button one day .
Starter out - properly disassembled - cleaned - new brush box - tank off earth cleaned = starting but still slow , I put in an extra new earth cable - bang it was like it should have been when it left the factory the earth cable was surprisingly thin for a 1200 cc twin cyl .

Very interesting info. It rather supports my thinking the earth (which one in not sure right now!) has a part to play in this story.

I guess like most of us. When did like this happens, I just want to understand as much as can to both avoid it in the future but also to work out what my contribution was!

The bike is covered in ACF50 normally. But...this autumn I just didn't have the time, said I'd do it on my return from this trip (it will still be done!). But I'm guessing without a through going over, checking all earth points and cleaning/re-fitting them all, then this story was inevitable.

Thanks for your post. It was useful

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[Slipperyeel]

..... It wouldn't Be helping "but" really that should Only show under high load situations like starting

A good "Clean" of accessible connections and a good lash of ACF50 in the connectors and Earth points is a good call Especially if you are going to use it over winter

I wonder were the brushes badly worn etc etc ??

Thanks doc. Yes, brushes could be a factor too.

The bike only does long journeys, like hundreds of miles each time. So brushes could actual be a factor since the alternator would be close to 5k rpm all day and that has been for the last 60k miles.

I guess all this stuff has a lifespan.

The workshop said they thought the bike was in excellent condition. I'm inclined to agree! It gets a lot of attention/maintenance. Obviously not enough on the earth points though

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[Slipperyeel]

2010 GSA, approaching 107,000 miles. I have never had any accessories plugged in, other than the Satnav occasionally. No alarm. Don't use the spots unless there's fog.The plastic on the spots have gone ,so now have had to secure them to the guards with cable ties.
Final drive went at 75000 miles - up at the gearbox end, rapid reduction in power, but limped on to a Service Station I knew where I could sit in comfort,drink coffee & await recovery.
Starter motor replaced around 72000 miles
Fuel strip gone (not bothered) - zero the clock on each refill - some tape on the screen to hide the warning.
Tyre pressure monitor starting to go (Comes up on the display),at around 90,000 miles (not bothered, my 1100GS didn't have one) - it still works tho as I picked up a slow puncture on the rear tyre & it flashed up on the screen.
She has served me well, my best bike ever.
Hope this isn't the kiss of death lol

Good history

The best discovery I ever made was Warm & Safe heated gear. One accessory I won't do without. Except maybe the dashcam. Those two things I really want!

It's the best bike I've ever had. It has never failed me until now. So I am not entirely upset but the work needed. It is also such a pleasure to ride, but perhaps so are the later GSs

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[DrFarkoff]

Thanks doc. Yes, brushes could be a factor too.

The bike only does long journeys, like hundreds of miles each time. So brushes could actual be a factor since the alternator would be close to 5k rpm all day and that has been for the last 60k miles.

I guess all this stuff has a lifespan.

The workshop said they thought the bike was in excellent condition. I'm inclined to agree! It gets a lot of attention/maintenance. Obviously not enough on the earth points though

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Basically ....... The more load on it, the more wear on the brushes

 

[Slipperyeel]

Basically ....... The more load on it, the more wear on the brushes

Ah! Thank you. That explains a lot to me. Electrics are becoming my thing now . Mechanics is actually my thing, but electrics have always been on the edge of my interest - that's changing!

Just been down a rabbit hole. See my next post on this - sod all to do here, so I got into it!

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[Flintlock]

To quote Oddball, I only ride them, I don't know what makes them work!

 

[Slipperyeel]

I've just spent they last, I don't know, hour and a half, going down a rabbit hole. Ai + calculator + product specs.

I wanted to understand what load my accessories demand from the alternator/electrical system. So I listed all the items and their stated current draw to find the total of all accessories (including the OEM fog lights). See the list below.

Quite interesting. Looks like I have been close to the limit in low rev situations... So I think this info might be useful to others.

Heated seat - 20W
Heated jacket - 106W
Heated trousers - 48W
K7 dashcam - 7.2W
Garmin XT - 10W(max - i have stated a max here)
OEM Aux lights - 110W
Phone on charge - 5W

TOTAL Watts= 306.2 = 22A @ 14.25V (assuming great battery etc)


The bike itself, with a rough estimate, for all normal running is 15A - note I have an led headlamp, so a big reduction in power needs compared the the OEM candle.

The alternator on the 1200 Twin cam is 60A

What this seems to mean is:

• while running, say >3k RPM there will be a comfortable excess of output from the alternator.
• at idle however, there is a deficit! Approx 8-10A deficit...


So if you're still with me , I think I'm close to the limit, which has really surprised me.
So if you think of a whole day's riding at -8°C with everything switched on. Then the system will have been effectively on max...
I think I'll fit a new battery when I'm home. The current one is really great. But I now realise I've worked it hard for the last years!

Can anyone help explain what they issued are with putting in a bigger output alternator? I don't mean upgrading, I mean OEM, why can't they put on higher output units?


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[Santa-2512]

So the voltage regulator is part of the Alternator, = ergo you need a new alternator = Kerching

This is a voltage regulator

They normally just bolt into / onto an alternator




I had a car alternator fail years ago - mega money to relace the whole unit,

Took it to an alternator specialist £20 odd quid for the regulator

One of the easiest ways to maximise your repair £200 needs a new alternator mate when a £20 part will fix it

It may be the VR is integral and dosent come as a stand alone part , wouldnt surprise me