Bendy toy
Registered user
Take off the fuel tank and look at the engine top. That's where most of the oily stuff sits and oil can trickle down to collect on the bash plate.
Oil leak.
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Bendy toy
Registered user
See if you can borrow an endoscope camera - really handy for poking into awkward corners. Aldi were selling them last year for not very much.
Here's a few to be going on with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2813...rlsatarget=pla-156022141986&adtype=pla&crdt=0
Here's a few to be going on with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2813...rlsatarget=pla-156022141986&adtype=pla&crdt=0
svenski
Registered user
With oil coming from this area is one of two seals which involves splitting the engine to expose the clutch the two seal are..
A. The seal behind the balance weight on the compensating shaft.
B. The main seal from the output shaft that sits behind the clutch.
Sorry to give you the worse news cost around £350 -400 to split bike.
A. The seal behind the balance weight on the compensating shaft.
B. The main seal from the output shaft that sits behind the clutch.
Sorry to give you the worse news cost around £350 -400 to split bike.
Bendy toy
Registered user
If you are thinking that splitting the bike is likely, first remove the petrol tank to see what if any of the usual suspects are leaking from the engine top area. You might get lucky.
Also check for gearbox rattles as mentioned above as you might was well get that sorted wile the bike is split or have to do it all again in due course. Others will tell us if the gearbox rattle in neutral is a forebear of anything serious or simply an annoying noise at the traffic lights.
Also check for gearbox rattles as mentioned above as you might was well get that sorted wile the bike is split or have to do it all again in due course. Others will tell us if the gearbox rattle in neutral is a forebear of anything serious or simply an annoying noise at the traffic lights.
I have the horrible feeling that I have the same problem with my 2010 GS with 17,000 miles on it.
Washed it yesterday and there was a small amount of oil residue in the same areas as your photos.........
I clean the bike regularly and have never seen this before yesterday. I can't understand how a seal could go if nothing has been done to the bike in this area!
I am monitoring it now but first impression is that it is very slowly weeping (a bit like me now) out from the joint directly above the 2 bolts as shown in the photos above.
I suppose I will need to monitor it and deal with it at some point.
Washed it yesterday and there was a small amount of oil residue in the same areas as your photos.........
I clean the bike regularly and have never seen this before yesterday. I can't understand how a seal could go if nothing has been done to the bike in this area!
I am monitoring it now but first impression is that it is very slowly weeping (a bit like me now) out from the joint directly above the 2 bolts as shown in the photos above.
I suppose I will need to monitor it and deal with it at some point.
Interesting.
I'm now not so convinced mine is leaking from the center two bolts as yours are. I photographed the area and used my iPad to zoom in where I can clearly sea oil running from the right side of the join between gearbox and engine (see photo). I have had a really good look with a torch and a clean rag trying to see if this leak is coming from higher up the engine but it appears to start on the bottom corner and following the seam down to the bottom giving the illusion it is leaking from there. There is a bolt in this area (top center of the photo) and I'm tempted to torque it up a bit but worried I might do more harm than good. This is a very small leak at the moment. What do the mechanics out there think about tightening the bolt in this area?
I'm now not so convinced mine is leaking from the center two bolts as yours are. I photographed the area and used my iPad to zoom in where I can clearly sea oil running from the right side of the join between gearbox and engine (see photo). I have had a really good look with a torch and a clean rag trying to see if this leak is coming from higher up the engine but it appears to start on the bottom corner and following the seam down to the bottom giving the illusion it is leaking from there. There is a bolt in this area (top center of the photo) and I'm tempted to torque it up a bit but worried I might do more harm than good. This is a very small leak at the moment. What do the mechanics out there think about tightening the bolt in this area?
Attachments
Couldn't be from the clutch slave could it?
I don't know? Isn't the clutch slave further back towards the rear end of gearbox? I'm a bit thick.
Bendy toy
Registered user
Clutch slave is above the rear swing arm in the middle. Leaks dribble away from the engine over the swing arm. It's thin stuff so leaks are not obvious and you wonder why the cutch keeps playing up.
I have experienced clutch slip a few times in higher gears when giving it some. I will have a good look tomorrow.
Looks to me like it could be the rear crank seal weeping, possibly gear box oil. Oil then gets spread around theinsideof the clutch housing if it hits the clutch, and gravity pulls it to the bottom of that housing.
FYI: The bolt and blanked hole in the earlier photos are the pivots for cam chain slippers, which are at the lowest point of the clutch housing. The engine was not refillled with something like a runny 0W-30 oil was it ?
Separating the engine and gearbox to have a look is not impossible for the home mechanic, but does take a lot of time.
Before spendig lots on that, check thatthe gera box itself was not overfilled with oil that does not smell like cat pee. Put the bike on thecentre stand and remove the filling plug on the right of the gearbox. Correct oil lvel is to thebpttom pf threads on the hole, if oil comes pouring out it was overfilled...
FYI: The bolt and blanked hole in the earlier photos are the pivots for cam chain slippers, which are at the lowest point of the clutch housing. The engine was not refillled with something like a runny 0W-30 oil was it ?
Separating the engine and gearbox to have a look is not impossible for the home mechanic, but does take a lot of time.
Before spendig lots on that, check thatthe gera box itself was not overfilled with oil that does not smell like cat pee. Put the bike on thecentre stand and remove the filling plug on the right of the gearbox. Correct oil lvel is to thebpttom pf threads on the hole, if oil comes pouring out it was overfilled...
Bendy toy
Registered user
I struggled to separate my gearbox. The bottom right dowel has a leverage point allowing it to be moved. The top left was stuck solid.
The bike back end can be unbolted at its bottom mounts and hinged up to make space for removing the gearbox. You then have access to the clutch cover. It's another example of BMW design engineers not talking to each other but at least the clutch can be examined without totally separating the bike.
But when you find the clutch is goosed you'll have to operate the 'box from the engine.
The bike back end can be unbolted at its bottom mounts and hinged up to make space for removing the gearbox. You then have access to the clutch cover. It's another example of BMW design engineers not talking to each other but at least the clutch can be examined without totally separating the bike.
But when you find the clutch is goosed you'll have to operate the 'box from the engine.
Thanks gent for your input I really appreciate it.
My gearbox oil has not been changed since the service before last. My mechanic is a motorrad trained tech and he is meticulous and I would be extremely surprised if he overfilled it. Furthermore I suspect this issue would have started last year after the service if overfilled. The fluid leaking does not smell like cat wee but it does seem a bit thin to be engine oil.
I do also recall some sort of fluid staining my swing arm after a 3,000km trip in Europe in May Bendy which I shrugged off at the time as I did not notice a leak anywhere. Now I'm only commuting at slow speeds I'm probably not going quick enough for it to blow onto the swing arm.
I'm in the process of trying to arrange for my mechanic (he is a busy man) to have a look at it. Identifying the problem is half the battle so I thank you all for your thoughts.
Neil
My gearbox oil has not been changed since the service before last. My mechanic is a motorrad trained tech and he is meticulous and I would be extremely surprised if he overfilled it. Furthermore I suspect this issue would have started last year after the service if overfilled. The fluid leaking does not smell like cat wee but it does seem a bit thin to be engine oil.
I do also recall some sort of fluid staining my swing arm after a 3,000km trip in Europe in May Bendy which I shrugged off at the time as I did not notice a leak anywhere. Now I'm only commuting at slow speeds I'm probably not going quick enough for it to blow onto the swing arm.
I'm in the process of trying to arrange for my mechanic (he is a busy man) to have a look at it. Identifying the problem is half the battle so I thank you all for your thoughts.
Neil
If you split the bike to inspect the clutch and gearbox seals, be careful with the wiring loom. As Bendy says, its an easy enough nut-and-bolt job if you have the garage space and are methodical in your approach. Be warned that I replaced my 2008 clutch due to occasional slipping in high gears (with no obvious faults found) but the parts alone are over £400.
When I did my clutch I somehow caused an intermittent break in the wiring to the oil level sensor on the RH side, resulting in the low oil warning icon operating when I stop in traffic with the engine hot. I have linked out the sensor and checked continuity but so far I'm unable to pinpoint the fault (probably a cable-tie bite into the loom somewhere near the headstock).
When I did my clutch I somehow caused an intermittent break in the wiring to the oil level sensor on the RH side, resulting in the low oil warning icon operating when I stop in traffic with the engine hot. I have linked out the sensor and checked continuity but so far I'm unable to pinpoint the fault (probably a cable-tie bite into the loom somewhere near the headstock).
Sorry, wasn't able to determine exact position from the photos.
Jersey, for info, I had slipping clutch when hot and it was cured by replacing the seals after bike was slit in two, clutch wasn't worn but replaced due to contamination. Wasn't a cheap job either!
Do check that you do not have too much fluid in the reservoir, I understand that can cause slip as you get a lock in the system because the fluid rises as the clutch wears- can't fully get my head round that but sure I read it somewhere.
It kind of works backwards compared to a single plate car clutch as there is no heavy flywheel involved. The clutch pressure plate assembly bolts to the crank drive plate on 'legs' like a bridge piece, with the clutch friction plate between it and the engine.
The clutch friction plate moves forward away from the pressure plate when disengaging (e.g. towards the crankshaft and away from the gearbox), obviously it moves the opposite way (rearwards) to take up drive when engaging. As it wears, the plate gradually moves rearwards displacing clutch fluid from slave cylinder back to master. If full of fluid in the master cylinder, the clutch can slip when the fluid gets hot and tries to expand.
I spent hours jiggling mine up and down to try and get the to separate, there was a barely perceptible amount of movement, but I could not get it increase, that box wa snot for moving. I gave up about beer-o-clock, and resumed next morning. I nearly dropped the 'box on my toes when it immediately came apart...Zen.
Thanks all.
I have just been out to a meeting on my bike. I am definitely suffering from clutch slip under full throttle in third up a gradient and fourth on the flat when accelerating from a low speed it's okay until approx 5,500rpm then slips.
I cleaned the dribble of fluid prior to riding and it's back there again. I took some clutch fluid out of my reservoir a few days ago using a syringe after reading about this a few days ago as it was pretty full.
The leaking fluid does appear to be too thin to be engine or gearbox oil alone so theories about clutch fluid mixing in gearbox oil might be right although if that was the case why was my reservoir so full??
I am disappointed that my meticulously maintained bike has developed a fault however I do appreciate that a lot of heat and vibration can take its toll no matter what. I also have to put these things into perspective as while I was worrying about this this morning unbeknown to me a close colleague of mine suffered a major heart attack during a charity run and is currently critally ill. Puts these things into perspective really. It's only a form of transport and money will fix it.
Stay safe
Neil
I have just been out to a meeting on my bike. I am definitely suffering from clutch slip under full throttle in third up a gradient and fourth on the flat when accelerating from a low speed it's okay until approx 5,500rpm then slips.
I cleaned the dribble of fluid prior to riding and it's back there again. I took some clutch fluid out of my reservoir a few days ago using a syringe after reading about this a few days ago as it was pretty full.
The leaking fluid does appear to be too thin to be engine or gearbox oil alone so theories about clutch fluid mixing in gearbox oil might be right although if that was the case why was my reservoir so full??
I am disappointed that my meticulously maintained bike has developed a fault however I do appreciate that a lot of heat and vibration can take its toll no matter what. I also have to put these things into perspective as while I was worrying about this this morning unbeknown to me a close colleague of mine suffered a major heart attack during a charity run and is currently critally ill. Puts these things into perspective really. It's only a form of transport and money will fix it.
Stay safe
Neil
Bendy toy
Registered user
I tapped out the bolt hole in the gearbox to M10. I turned about 25mm of thread from end of an M10 bolt. This cleared the M8 threads in the engine and allowed me to jack the the gearbox off the engine. It had to be taken up tight before the gearbox moved. It went back with lots of anti seize paste.
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