BBB61
Registered user
No different to the older oilheads and airheads then Johnny.
Please reply if you have had corroded parts replaced under warranty
- Thread starter FatBob
- Start date
Nope................just the unnecessary EWS transponder and the ludicrous postion & design of the FPC, throw in the over complication of the final drive (supposedly originally 'sealed for life'.........ha bloody ha) and a paint process which is abysmal........... to add to the general BMW bike woes
FatBob
Registered user
I started the thread and the point was to see whether I had just been unlucky or if there were systematic failures in the manufacture of the GS, and whether there was a precedent for getting corroded parts replaced under warranty. I think the answer is that there are systematic failures in many places (final drive, centre stand, front engine cover) but also some more unusual cases.
My bike has just been in for the 6000 mile service and the dealer had a look at the corrosion while it was there. I have just heard back that they/"BMW" have agreed to fix (I assume this mens replace but I need to verify) the wheels and final drive but have rejected the claim for the rust on the rear pegs and centre stand and put it down to stone damage or some such. The dealer indicated thay they have to do the work at cost so are presumably making no profit on the work and therefore I assume are not very keen to do it. I think they are trying to replace enough parts to keep me "happy" rather that fixing everything that has failed.
I have only ridden on the road. If stone chips after 6 months causes this much damage, I hate to think what would happen if I actually went offroad. And how do you get stone chips on recessed parts of the frame around the rear pegs, especially on the left hand side where it is protected from the rear wheel by the exhaust, and protected from the front by the engine and rider? Sounds like bull to me.
The reason they agreed to repalce the wheel and final drive was that "they had seen this type of corrosion before" ie they all do that ie they have a systematic manufacturing problem but are unwilling or unable to fix it. They apparently have not seen corrosion around the rear pegs before hence rejected the claim. This is also bull, I suspect. Maybe its less common but I seem to remember a post on this forum somewhere from someone with the same problem who had the rear subframe replaced. I think they just don't want to do it because its a big job and its expensive. I could jenolite it and repaint it myself but why should I have to? Once its been touched up the finish will never be as good as the original (or as good as the original should have been). The centre stand is obviously exposed to all the crap from the front wheel (although I also fitted a fender extender to reduce it) so you would think BMW would put a tough paint on it to cope with the conditions that it is obviously going to be exposed to.
An additional complication for me is that I didn't take it back to the garage where I bought it to get the corrosion sorted, but I think any claim under trade descriptions would be with the original dealer. I think I will have to get the agreed repairs done first then see what i can do about the frame, maybe via the dealer where I bought it.
Bob
Good to see they have agreed to the wheels and final drive but I`m not surprised about the stand and pegs.
The centre stand is going to take a hammering whatever you protect it with because it`s so exposed and I`m not sure any paint would stop it chipping. If it`s a problem, you can get a protector for it from TT I think or knock something up yourself.
The pegs are also very exposed but it`s dissapointing that they have rusted. I`ve just sorted some rust problems (caused by wear from my boot) with a plastic paint which is a good match and will be tougher.
It shouldn`t matter which dealer you take your bike to as they all should give you the same service.
I`m interested that you are still referring to "trades descriptions". Do you think you have a claim and under what grounds would you claim?
And before one or two start, I`m not a BuMW apologist and I stand by all I have said on this. It would seem here that BuMW are honouring there warranty commitments and doing what they think is right.
Good to see they have agreed to the wheels and final drive but I`m not surprised about the stand and pegs.
The centre stand is going to take a hammering whatever you protect it with because it`s so exposed and I`m not sure any paint would stop it chipping. If it`s a problem, you can get a protector for it from TT I think or knock something up yourself.
The pegs are also very exposed but it`s dissapointing that they have rusted. I`ve just sorted some rust problems (caused by wear from my boot) with a plastic paint which is a good match and will be tougher.
It shouldn`t matter which dealer you take your bike to as they all should give you the same service.
I`m interested that you are still referring to "trades descriptions". Do you think you have a claim and under what grounds would you claim?
And before one or two start, I`m not a BuMW apologist and I stand by all I have said on this. It would seem here that BuMW are honouring there warranty commitments and doing what they think is right.
FatBob
Registered user
Do you think you would find a used GS for sale in a BMW dealership with 6000 miles on the clock and visible rust on the frame? I doubt it. If you saw one in that conditon, would you buy it? If they took a bike as part-ex and it had rust i think they would repair it before they put it on sale. Why would they do that if a rusting frame is acceptable wear and tear after 6000 miles?
If I buy a product and use it as intended and it breaks, wears out, paint peels off or anything else then I would say that product is faulty and not fit for purpose.
Stone chips are inevitable but I'm not even convinced that my rusting frame is down to stone chips. How do you get a stone chip on a surface that faces sideways and is covered by the rear peg 90% of the time?
My car (also BMW) is 10 years old. It has a good number of stone chips on the bonnet and other places, but it took 100,000 miles to get them all and none have rusted like the bike.
Precisely. This WILL happen in normal use so it seems reasonable that the centre stand should be built in such a way that normal use doesn't damage it. Does every single model of bike with a centre stand suffer from this problem? I don't remember it happening on my old Honda. If the GS centre stand needs a plastic cover to protect it, then BMW should fit one.
well the problem happens to be about quality control in the manufacturing process bmw seam to have lost the skills that they had years ago
my dad is still riding around on a 1951 51/3 an putting 6000 miles a year on it.and it still looks good
the is a certain amount of maintenance is needed on any bike but
we have got paints and technology that they did not have in 1951 electro static systems zinc based paints and all the rest .if we have the technology to keep a oil rig working in the north sea then why not a bike on a winter with a bit of road salt". after all there should be parity between the cars and bikes.
but it appears that they want to get us to replace our bikes quickly chop an change for THE LATEST model or perhaps the powers that be are scaired that we would not change to the new model if our old ones still looked good
iv'e had a k75 and a 94 funduro and the build quality of the more modern bikes are far worse and the engineering ,electrical components are just not lasting as long
my dad is still riding around on a 1951 51/3 an putting 6000 miles a year on it.and it still looks good
the is a certain amount of maintenance is needed on any bike but
we have got paints and technology that they did not have in 1951 electro static systems zinc based paints and all the rest .if we have the technology to keep a oil rig working in the north sea then why not a bike on a winter with a bit of road salt". after all there should be parity between the cars and bikes.
but it appears that they want to get us to replace our bikes quickly chop an change for THE LATEST model or perhaps the powers that be are scaired that we would not change to the new model if our old ones still looked good
iv'e had a k75 and a 94 funduro and the build quality of the more modern bikes are far worse and the engineering ,electrical components are just not lasting as long
FatBob
Registered user
Trades Descriptions - I need to look up the exact defintion but I think it basically says good need to be as described and fit for their purpose.
I picked up a brochure for the GS Adventure from my dealer. The opening words from said brochure:
"Nothing on earth comes between this bike and its destination. It is built without compromise to handle anything the planet's roads - and off-road - can throw at it."
er....except salt which is used in the winter through out the western world. Or stones, which will destroy the paintwork within a few months. Oh, and the paint on the final drive will fall off in no time regardless of what you do.
Doesn't sound like "built without compromise" to me.
I picked up a brochure for the GS Adventure from my dealer. The opening words from said brochure:
"Nothing on earth comes between this bike and its destination. It is built without compromise to handle anything the planet's roads - and off-road - can throw at it."
er....except salt which is used in the winter through out the western world. Or stones, which will destroy the paintwork within a few months. Oh, and the paint on the final drive will fall off in no time regardless of what you do.
Doesn't sound like "built without compromise" to me.
I feckin despair sometimes, I really do. Just because the blurb says "built without compromise" doesn`t mean the GS has "magic" powers to stop it getting damaged by stones.
Would you also complain when you get a stone ship on your car???? No, of course not and you`d just get it sorted and find ways to protect your car if you thought it a huge issue.
I`d like anyone on this forum, or any other, to explain to me how you protect a bike completely frome stones damaging the exposed areas like the centre stand. Stones are harder than paint....period!
I`d also like to know how you completely stop salt corrision on metal because I can`t think of anything....actually I can and it`s called a car but don`t look under that nice galvanized body because you`ll scare yourself utterly shitless
FFS guys, get in the real world. Some bikes have corrosion issues but most don`t. I`ll admit it`s a pain the the arse if you have been unlucky, as some on this thread have, but the manufacturer will normally put his hand up to get it sorted.
If you really are worried about stone chips damaging your bike, don`t ride on stones because you`ll never avoid it. Or, you could use your initiative and find ways to protect your pride and joy. Touratat will welcome your business.
Trades Descriptions Act? Can you imagine how hard they`d laugh if you tried to take BuMW to court because a stone damaged your paint????
I`m not a BuMW apologist, I`m really not but I live in the REAL world where I don`t expect every thing to be perfect and will find ways to protect things if I think they need it
Would you also complain when you get a stone ship on your car???? No, of course not and you`d just get it sorted and find ways to protect your car if you thought it a huge issue.
I`d like anyone on this forum, or any other, to explain to me how you protect a bike completely frome stones damaging the exposed areas like the centre stand. Stones are harder than paint....period!
I`d also like to know how you completely stop salt corrision on metal because I can`t think of anything....actually I can and it`s called a car but don`t look under that nice galvanized body because you`ll scare yourself utterly shitless
FFS guys, get in the real world. Some bikes have corrosion issues but most don`t. I`ll admit it`s a pain the the arse if you have been unlucky, as some on this thread have, but the manufacturer will normally put his hand up to get it sorted.
If you really are worried about stone chips damaging your bike, don`t ride on stones because you`ll never avoid it. Or, you could use your initiative and find ways to protect your pride and joy. Touratat will welcome your business.
Trades Descriptions Act? Can you imagine how hard they`d laugh if you tried to take BuMW to court because a stone damaged your paint????
I`m not a BuMW apologist, I`m really not but I live in the REAL world where I don`t expect every thing to be perfect and will find ways to protect things if I think they need it
R1200GSA
Registered user
I feckin despair sometimes, I really do.
stonechips
I`m not a BuMW apologist, REALLY??? I`m really not but I live in the REAL world where I don`t expect every thing to be perfect and will find ways to protect things if I think they need it
FFS Lets get something straight here. This isnt all about fcukin stonechips as you keep rambling on about. Spending £12/13,000 of hard earned cash "should" get you a product that does not RUST and OXIDISE and CORRODE in front of your fekkin eyes. Period!!!!
FFS Lets get something straight here. This isnt all about fcukin stonechips as you keep rambling on about. Spending £12/13,000 of hard earned cash "should" get you a product that does not RUST and OXIDISE and CORRODE in front of your fekkin eyes. Period!!!!
Fatbobs bike is a disaster area and I`d be fuming if it were mine. BuMW have to fix it and I`ve no doubt they will. It happens to very few to that extent thank goodness.
My point is, most bikes are not like this and you can`t stop a little corrosion no matter what you do and it just plain fecks me off when I see folk jumping on the bandwagon when they don`t have a real issue, unlike Fatbob.
I`ve had issues with mine but have sorted them. The frame started to show signs of rust so I`ve used available products to sort it out....no problem.
Sure, my wheels have pitted a bit and the hubs are showing signs of corrosion but it lives outside and it is ridden all year round. I`ve done 46k in ALL weathers and I`m happy the way it`s lasting. Perhaps I`m lucky but I think I`m one of the majority who don`t have a problem.
At the end of the day, it`s a choice. If you really don`t like the bike, the build quality or the way the dealers deal with you, you can always sell it and buy something else
R1200GSA
Registered user
Erm.........prepare and paint it properly in the first instance! Any final coating is only ever going to be as good as the preparation.
Or even better, use stainless steel! Just not from the same factory where they produce the GSA engine bars, as they rust too!
FatBob
Registered user
Every R1200GS/GSA I have seen out outside of a showroom has had some degree of corrosion around the hole on the final drive.
BMW have so far refused to do anything about the rust on my frame but agreed to replace the wheels and final drive. The reason was something along the lines of having seen corrosion on the wheels and drive before but not having seen it on the frame. Well I should hope not! What they are saying is that its quite normal for the wheels and final drive to corrode.
Manufacturers will continue to cut corners and ignore known problems until we, the consumer, put enough pressure on them to MAKE them do something about it.
I love the bike but I expected better build quality from BMW. If its like this after 6 months what state will it be in after a few years? People have been mocked on this forum for suggesting that they actually clean their bike. It seems like they have to be wrapped on cotton wool to stop them falling apart! Maybe some people can afford to spend £12k on a bike and just write off the expense over 5 years, personally I can't.
jameshough
Registered user
GSA Corrosion
I have a July 2008 GSA I have clocked up 13300 miles in the past year.
Last week it was serviced at my local dealers, where I pointed out that there was what appeared to be corrosion on the stainless steel shaft which runs across the bike through the centre of the rear wheel. The dealers sent photographs of this corosion to BMW who quickly responded that it was my fault because the bike has not been washed enough. Therefore they were not going to do anything about it. The dealers insist that BMW Technical can assess the problem from photographs, and so do not need to take a close up look at the bike. I am not the keenest bike washer but do make an effort to keep it tidy. I have done so with all my bikes. Has anyone any comments or assistance to offer?
I have a July 2008 GSA I have clocked up 13300 miles in the past year.
Last week it was serviced at my local dealers, where I pointed out that there was what appeared to be corrosion on the stainless steel shaft which runs across the bike through the centre of the rear wheel. The dealers sent photographs of this corosion to BMW who quickly responded that it was my fault because the bike has not been washed enough. Therefore they were not going to do anything about it. The dealers insist that BMW Technical can assess the problem from photographs, and so do not need to take a close up look at the bike. I am not the keenest bike washer but do make an effort to keep it tidy. I have done so with all my bikes. Has anyone any comments or assistance to offer?
Account removed
Guest
I hope this is not going to be the new line BMW are going to take on corosion.
I would keep on at them and kindly ask them what they mean by not washed enough and is there a washing policy that they would like all GS owners to adhere to
Buttso
Registered user
BMW 1200 GSa Corrosion
Hi all
have a Jan 08 GSa suffering from all the rust/corrosion issues, it has that mottled rust on the black subframe, rust on the pegs, the center stand and all around that area.. interestingly enough I tried to remove that pair of thick U clamps for the panniers and the right hand side clamp is completely seized,
Two of the bolts in holding the cover over the rear mudguard snapped in half while trying to remove them, on closer inspection the bolts are rusted into place.
Took all my photos went to BMW... was told after a lengthy period that their BMW technical manager had reviewed all my photos and found "that nothing in the photos he could see could point to a flaw in the BMW manafacturing process" in order words... piss off!!
now they will replace the front engine cover all the bolts are being done under warranty etc.. but the black subframe seems to be a no go area.. due to the high labour cost of replacement
there is another guy I work with he has a 07 GSa, identical problem went to a motor assessor who confirmed this is a defect, BMW rejected his claim also.. he is has now delivered a solicitors letter to BMW..
BMW may ignore one voice... but they might listen to many.... its great to see this thread.... I love my bike but BMW not standing by their product and telling everyone to piss off is annoying and disappointing..
Hi all
have a Jan 08 GSa suffering from all the rust/corrosion issues, it has that mottled rust on the black subframe, rust on the pegs, the center stand and all around that area.. interestingly enough I tried to remove that pair of thick U clamps for the panniers and the right hand side clamp is completely seized,
Two of the bolts in holding the cover over the rear mudguard snapped in half while trying to remove them, on closer inspection the bolts are rusted into place.
Took all my photos went to BMW... was told after a lengthy period that their BMW technical manager had reviewed all my photos and found "that nothing in the photos he could see could point to a flaw in the BMW manafacturing process" in order words... piss off!!
now they will replace the front engine cover all the bolts are being done under warranty etc.. but the black subframe seems to be a no go area.. due to the high labour cost of replacement
there is another guy I work with he has a 07 GSa, identical problem went to a motor assessor who confirmed this is a defect, BMW rejected his claim also.. he is has now delivered a solicitors letter to BMW..
BMW may ignore one voice... but they might listen to many.... its great to see this thread.... I love my bike but BMW not standing by their product and telling everyone to piss off is annoying and disappointing..
FatBob
Registered user
Success! Frame being replaced right now!
I won! I hope. My bke is currently with the dealer having the rear subframe replaced under warranty. I hope I am not trading one problem for another one, i don't really like the idea of having the bike disassembled...
I started this thread months ago and I thought it was long dead, like my paintwork!
In summary: brand new 1200 GSA bought from Dealer A in October 08.
By April 09 4000 miles later, corrosion on the frame, centre stand, wheel rims, hubs and swingarm.
Running in and 6000 miles service done at Dealer B because it was more convenient at the time. Wheels and swingarm replaced by Dealer B under warranty but refused replacement of frame because it was "not a manufacturing defect".
I spent the next few months working out what to do next. No way i was giving up that easy.
12000 miles service done recently by dealer A where I originally bought the bike, they put in a new warranty claim for the rear subframe and this time it was accepted. I don't know why or how and at this point I don't really care! I might investigate further after the work is done but i don't want to rock the boat further until then.
Here's an interesting note. I got a call from the dealer when they were about to start the frame replacement to say that the new frame they had ordered also had bad paintwork on it. The surface was rough in places like it wasn't laquered properly. They ordered a 2nd replacement frame. That one was also faulty! Only on the 3rd attempt did they get a replacement frame with decent paint on it! At least I hope it is decent and they haven't just given up trying.
So BMW make such a fuss about how its not a manufacturing defect in the first place, then ship 2 brand new components that are not painted properly? Anyone see a pattern here?
Is there a German word for "quality control" because BMW don't seem to know it.
If you have a fault with your bike and its under warranty, get it sorted. Don't take no for an answer. If enough people refuse to accept substandard products then BMW might eventually have to do something about the problem. Its the only way. Power to the people!
I won! I hope. My bke is currently with the dealer having the rear subframe replaced under warranty. I hope I am not trading one problem for another one, i don't really like the idea of having the bike disassembled...
I started this thread months ago and I thought it was long dead, like my paintwork!
In summary: brand new 1200 GSA bought from Dealer A in October 08.
By April 09 4000 miles later, corrosion on the frame, centre stand, wheel rims, hubs and swingarm.
Running in and 6000 miles service done at Dealer B because it was more convenient at the time. Wheels and swingarm replaced by Dealer B under warranty but refused replacement of frame because it was "not a manufacturing defect".
I spent the next few months working out what to do next. No way i was giving up that easy.
12000 miles service done recently by dealer A where I originally bought the bike, they put in a new warranty claim for the rear subframe and this time it was accepted. I don't know why or how and at this point I don't really care! I might investigate further after the work is done but i don't want to rock the boat further until then.
Here's an interesting note. I got a call from the dealer when they were about to start the frame replacement to say that the new frame they had ordered also had bad paintwork on it. The surface was rough in places like it wasn't laquered properly. They ordered a 2nd replacement frame. That one was also faulty! Only on the 3rd attempt did they get a replacement frame with decent paint on it! At least I hope it is decent and they haven't just given up trying.
So BMW make such a fuss about how its not a manufacturing defect in the first place, then ship 2 brand new components that are not painted properly? Anyone see a pattern here?
Is there a German word for "quality control" because BMW don't seem to know it.
If you have a fault with your bike and its under warranty, get it sorted. Don't take no for an answer. If enough people refuse to accept substandard products then BMW might eventually have to do something about the problem. Its the only way. Power to the people!
Buttso
Registered user
Great news
Hey Fatbob..
that is great news about your bike, I am delighted for you
would you mind passing on the name of the dealer (even through PM )you went to cause if BMW have done it for one bike, it sets a precedent..
and maybe over here in Ireland we can use that to get our bikes done
cause we are getting nowhere...
Hey Fatbob..
that is great news about your bike, I am delighted for you
would you mind passing on the name of the dealer (even through PM )you went to cause if BMW have done it for one bike, it sets a precedent..
and maybe over here in Ireland we can use that to get our bikes done
cause we are getting nowhere...
ovenpaa
Registered user
I picked up a new R1200R last month and was very pleased to see a lot of the fixings are stainless, which is a change since my last 1200 (HP2) Are the new GS's like this as well?
