Police Presence on the A49

[Tarka]

Which,from what i read,was a Knee Jerk Assumption that the Guys that Rushy mentioned were "Weekend Wannabee's" etc.

I work Tues to Sat,05.00 till 18.00/20.00 so Sunday and Monday are the Days i can Ride. Does this mean that in TarkaWorld i'm not allowed to Ride because i choose not to ride 7 X 52 ?

As an LGV Driver i regularly see Piss Poor Standards of Driving by Cyclists,Bikes,Cars,Vans,Buses,Trucks etc.Basically anything with Wheels. Where does your Axe stop Swinging ?

You know perfectly well the ones I`m on about.......

Weekend Wannabee wasn`t the only reference of mine.

Even you must be able to detect those who really don`t give a shite about the future of biking and would simply move to jetskis or some other activity if biking was banned outright...and then feck that activity up for the genuine devotees.

 

[Tarka]

Called at the Stormy Pectral last Thursday evening on my way home from Redditch..

For you and Uncle Vern.....it`s 'Stormy Petrel' .

It was about half nine and there was hardly anyone there. Even the chippy van was leaving as I arrived.

Yup...for some reason most of them go scurrying home before dark.
Mind you...on seeing how piss poor many of them ride in the daytime it`s no great surprise,though.

 

[Dee Tee]

You know perfectly well the ones I`m on about.......

Weekend Wannabee wasn`t the only reference of mine.

Even you must be able to detect those who really don`t give a shite about the future of biking and would simply move to jetskis or some other activity if biking was banned outright...and then feck that activity up for the genuine devotees.

Fair enough. I guess that it's been a long time since i was a 7 X 52 Rider so the passion in me is not so close to the surface as it is with yourself.

Biking is not the only Leisure Pursuit that suffers from the Moron Element,though,is it ? No easy answer, the way i see it .

 

[Mr K]

....and then they came for the Uralists....

 

[Tarka]

....and then they came for the Uralists....

Feck off back over to yer own Region,you.....

 

[Mr K]

Feck off back over to yer own Region,you.....

The point I struggle to put across is: Blanket enforcement of innappropriate legislation may suit you now.... but when the anti-scary face-mask and questionable bonce-potty ASBO is enforced on you..and you ignore it and get caught again...and they confiscate the tools of your villainous lifestyle and have them crushed... who will rush to defend you...........?

 

[MikeP]

I bow to your superior knowledge.... but why not just deal with specific offences?

Speeding, small plates, careless driving (if appropriate) ...?

I'm not spoiling for a fight either. I just wanted to correct the impression that police were using ASBO's to deal with motoring offences.

I also wouldn't disagree with your view that noisy/illegal exhausts should be dealt with, as should micro-number plates etc by using the appropriate legislation.

I've stated before (on this forum) that S59 notices seem to be misused at times.

PS: What is a "Section 59, Police Reform Act 2002, notice"...and how does it affect the recipient?

The legislation is aimed primarily at the circumstances you (or someone else) mentioned: the spotty dickwads that drive around car parks with their so-called music blaring, laying down rubber and all the other things that upset/annoy/scare the populace.

To that end, it specifically mentions careless driving other than on a highway and where such causes distress or fear to others.

The idea being that it's applied to places where police have no power to use the Road Traffic Acts etc.

My contention has always been that if someone commits an offence on a road, then the police have the powers to deal appropriately.

If the riders were suspected of careless driving on a road, then they should be summoned and the courts apply whatever penalty as deemed fit (if convicted).

The Legislation:
Section 59 Police Reform Act 2002 states that -

Where an officer has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used in a manner which contravenes Road Traffic Act Section 3 (Careless Driving) OR Section 34 (Driving elsewhere than on a road) AND also the manner of use of the vehicle is causing or has been causing or is likely to cause, alarm distress or annoyance to members of the public, Section 59 can be used to:-

initially give a written warning (valid for twelve months)
(commonly called a Section 59 Notice)

and on a subsequent occasion to seize the vehicle.
(it will probably end up in the crusher, or may be ransomed back to the owner)

A constable in uniform has the power to order the person driving to stop the vehicle, to seize and remove the vehicle, to enter any premises on which the officer has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be and to use reasonable force. Seizure can made only if a warning has been given, or believed to have been given, or if a warning is clearly being ignored.

I don't know what appeal exists but if it were me, I'd be exploring that as I think that it's an abuse of process.

 

[Rushy]

Steve, I am all for more coppers on the roads and less cameras, I long for the day

Shite driving deserves a tug and I wish there was more of it. But I also wish that there were less instant fines, points , bans & stuff like section 59 and more compulsory training and education paid for by the individual themselves instead of fining them.

I don't know who these guys are or how they were riding and as an aside I dont believe what they were riding is really relevant , we are all bikers aren't we ? I think we can guess that they were exceeding the speed limit and some of them clearly were breaking other laws too BUT can I just remind you of what I said ;

, however the seemingly blanket issuing of a section 59 ASBO to all concerned is a bit of a worry. I bet very few car drivers ever get them

I think this is especially of concern for those who ride in groups and like to make 'good progress'.
Anyway, go careful on the A49 , especially as most of it is now a 50 limit

They may well have ALL deserved a section 59 but its a worry that it may be used as a stick to beat bikers with in the absence of anything else substantial, or substantiated, to nick them for . It's also a worry if you happen to be riding with some mates and 1 or 2 of them maybe riding like nobbers.

None of this really effects you though Steve does it because "when the Tarka rides.............he rides alone "

.

 

[Tarka]

, we are all bikers aren't we ?.

Nope......many aren`t.

And that is the crux of the problem.

, None of this really effects you though Steve does it because "when the Tarka rides.............he rides alone "
.

Indeed I do.

 

[MikeP]

I certainly feel no sympathy for some of the riders that I see and I think that many deserve to be dealt with.

However, the use of Sec 59 to deal with offences that take place on a road is lazy policing at best, inappropriate (mis)use of the legislation at worst.

AFAIK, those who have been authorised to issue Sec 59 notices have to be specifically authorised to do so (an ACPO ruling I believe, so not law but procedure) and should know the limitations of the Act.

I'd gladly be corrected by any of my former colleagues who are more up-to-date on this than me.

 

[how much]

I certainly feel no sympathy for some of the riders that I see and I think that many deserve to be dealt with.

However, the use of Sec 59 to deal with offences that take place on a road is lazy policing at best, inappropriate (mis)use of the legislation at worst.
.

well said that man

hm

 

[Terry NW]

Yeah...It's all good until it comes down on you:

yip like i said, not been stopped on the road for doing nowt since i was 15.
28 years ago, so not arsed about coppers doing checks and people for number plates etc.
oh i've been stopped twice and done once for small number plates.. i took it on the chin because i've broken the LAW..

so it just so simple, break the law and do not moan if you get done
stay with-in the law and do not give the coppers a load of shit when you get pulled over then you should be fine...always worked for me when i've been within the law.. and sometimes when i've broken it too ..been left off,for be been just ok with the copper...................

 

[tarry]

yip like i said, not been stopped on the road for doing nowt since i was 15.
28 years ago, so not arsed about coppers doing checks and people for number plates etc.
oh i've been stopped twice and done once for small number plates.. i took it on the chin because i've broken the LAW..

so it just so simple, break the law and do not moan if you get done
stay with-in the law and do not give the coppers a load of shit when you get pulled over then you should be fine...always worked for me when i've been within the law.. and sometimes when i've broken it too ..been left off,for be been just ok with the copper...................

Since i was 15, 28 years ago??? think someones telling porkys ere terry

 

[Terry NW]

Since i was 15, 28 years ago??? think someones telling porkys ere terry

it's true i know Rushy say his young than pipster , but with all that grey hair it hard to believe..oh yes i'm only 43 pipster does not look 46 because he has never done a hard days work in his life... i had to carry him on two jobs i've done with him

cat and Pigeon me thinks.............

how is it in west cheshire these days Steve

 

[tarry]

Fine thanks pal, although things seem a bit quieter now jono`s left the shire

 

[Flipfly]

I agree with Tarka.If you want to have a demonstration of what sort of twats are out there at the moment,come and sit outside my workshop on a sunny thursday evening when all the pillocks are going to the stormy pectral,and listen to them all.It doesn't want a copper there,it wants a piano wire across the road.

Strange that they never do it when it's raining.I wonder why that is then

Vern, i bow to your ability to shun the act of riding at speed

Standard pipes save licenses

I've never received a single point through riding my bike, gosh Mind you I never speed

 

[Rushy]

it's true i know Rushy say his young than pipster , but with all that grey hair it hard to believe..

I'm younger than you too ya daft sod

Off topic - I was also very surprised that when I was attending a birthing class on Sunday with Lou out of a group of 8 dads only 1 was definitely younger 3 were definitely older and i'd said the other 4 of us were within a year or so if each other. Looks like I didn't need to worry about being the oldest dad at the school gates.

Back on topic , I have recieved 3 points from biking. Speeding 12 years ago , North Wales on my K1 .
Car points total tally in 24 yrs is 14 points .. Last one was 4yrs ago.

 

[John Armstrong]

Time to get afraid: http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8206463.stm

Trial by peers, due process, feckit, whatever's easiest and can be measured and targets issued

 

[russ996duke]

You could try but I wouldn't fancy your chances. Like scamera convictions I think you are really just supposed to bend over and take it up the arse whether you are guilty or not

section 59 notice.....like they use on trailriders caught "off route"...
first offence
In order to issue a s.59 the vehicle/driver must have comitted an offence under s.3 or s.34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which has caused alarm or distress to another. The s.59 notice is not a 'ticket' par se but if the recepient refuses to acept the s.59 notice then I suppose the next course of action is to process them for the s.3 or s.34 offence which has been comitted which would then provide them the oportunity to provide evidence to support their objection to the 'punishment'.
second offence
On the second occasion They need to have comitted one of the trigger offences and be reported for it and then the vehicle seized. No seizure form is needed for the seizure under Sect 59 PRA, unlike the requirement for a form under 165A RTA 88 for not in accordance or no insurance.


so a section 59 notice is possibly worse than speeding ticket, as it gives the power to seize the vehicle next time you are caught (within 12 months of the first occasion, so thats alright then!)

a worrying development for all bike riders, not just the so called "nobbers"
as they identify riding a bike more and more as an activity that "which has caused alarm or distress to another"

a sign of the times....
interesting comments here about not minding if the nobbers get caught, it wont affect me, etc etc, that was just the reaction amongst trail riders in the run up to NERC. and all we trail riders got screwed!

 

[Keith Chapman]

The Legislation:
Section 59 Police Reform Act 2002 states that -

Where an officer has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used in a manner which contravenes Road Traffic Act Section 3 (Careless Driving) OR Section 34 (Driving elsewhere than on a road) AND also the manner of use of the vehicle is causing or has been causing or is likely to cause, alarm distress or annoyance to members of the public.

My feeling is that the section 59 in question was probably issued for the careless driving, (section 3).

But as I wasn't there it is only a guess.