Poor fueling

[Backroader]

I've done a few thousand miles on a secondhand 08 GS and initially I thought it was fantastic but not so sure now. (I had owned an R100GS for 128k and 16 years previous).

I'm a true backroads man and avoid motorways and A roads if I can and I find the fuel injection is not great for gunning between bends on small twisty roads. The pick-up on the throttle coming out of bends is not great and there is a definite lag - and no I am not lugging it and I am in the correct gear and revs. It just does not have much torque and you are forever changing gear. Might be ok on the straight boring roads that most riders use but when crossing the country and Europe on small roads I am having my doubts.

When riding through towns, more or less at 30 and in the correct gear/revs, the fuel injection is sort of hunting all the time and does not run what I would call smoothly.The bike has recently had a 6k service so should be set up ok.

My question is are all 1200's like this. I mean with poor fuelling ?

 

[GSmonkey]

I wouldn't say they're badly fuelled. Remus headers do make a big difference though as they reduce the effects of the flatspot making higher revs more usable.

 

[Beemerman59]

I've done a few thousand miles on a secondhand 08 GS and initially I thought it was fantastic but not so sure now. (I had owned an R100GS for 128k and 16 years previous).

I'm a true backroads man and avoid motorways and A roads if I can and I find the fuel injection is not great for gunning between bends on small twisty roads. The pick-up on the throttle coming out of bends is not great and there is a definite lag - and no I am not lugging it and I am in the correct gear and revs. It just does not have much torque and you are forever changing gear. Might be ok on the straight boring roads that most riders use but when crossing the country and Europe on small roads I am having my doubts.

When riding through towns, more or less at 30 and in the correct gear/revs, the fuel injection is sort of hunting all the time and does not run what I would call smoothly.The bike has recently had a 6k service so should be set up ok.

My question is are all 1200's like this. I mean with poor fuelling ?

I have exactly the same comments to make with my 08 GSA which I also bought secondhand. I decided to wait until the 6K service had been done which was a couple of weeks ago at Bahnstormers. When I booked it in I asked them to look at the jerkiness at low revs/speed etc. After the service I have not noticed any difference in the engines performance. This is the first big twin I have owned and the only real disappointment is the significant power band the bike has from 5K upwards which I guess is down to the Cat and the tight emission controls it has to get through. You do have to use the gears more than I had expected.

When there's a bit more experience with the post '08 bikes with removing the Cat (and not burning any valves) I will be fitting replacement headers to get rid of the Cat which I'm told dramatically improves the midrange. Other than that I'm getting used to slipping the clutch on low speed turns and making sure I'm in a low enough gear to make fast overtakes.

 

[cookie]

My question is are all 1200's like this. I mean with poor fuelling ?

i too love riding the backroads, and can say that neither my 1200GSA, or any other i have ridden has the symptoms you describe.

the FI on the 1150 i found a bit on or off (you get used to it), but the 1200 is way better. neither have the instant, heavy flywheel powered, low rev grunt of my R100GS though.

 

[mr badger]

I'm pretty happy with the fueling on my 08 12GS I have to say.

I do notice tough, that the throttle response is very non-linear. At small openings, the engine feels a little flat (up to about 50 %) but when wound on gives distinctly more power. This seems independent of revs. Many bikes, especially Hondas, are set up tis way to provide easier drive in difficult conditions.

Coming from a road bike with immaculate and linear carbs, this took a bit of getting used to. Holding the throttle on the 'border' does give some hunting and hesitation. Is this where you tend to be when you notice the issue? If so, try making a little adjustment.

 

[elefantmanshawn]

They are super lean as standard so I only ever use shell v power and have pre ordered a power commander v,after that then will alter headers and snorkle inlet,buells have the same hole at the same revs but on them you just disconnect a white wire and its gone,pity the germans aren't as helpful

 

[RickG]

At small openings, the engine feels a little flat (up to about 50 %) but when wound on gives distinctly more power. This seems independent of revs. Many bikes, especially Hondas, are set up tis way to provide easier drive in difficult conditions.

Errr, yes, they all do that don't they? Cars, bikes, aircraft, supertankers..

 

[Backroader]

Seems my initial honeymoon period with the bike is over. I was thinking of seeing what the dealer could do but sounds like nothing, i've just got to put up with no torque, poor pick-up and hesitant running.

I'm in no way a looney like most of the sports riders I see (not that I ever see many bikes on my type of routes) but I like to press on across country and my riding involves a heck of a lot of bends and it's not great having a bike without instant grunt.

I'll wait until the guarantee is up and then consider what tuning mods/exhaust changes can be made to make it better.

 

[GSmonkey]

Why wait for warranty period to be up - most of these things will be fitted by BMW garages and even carry BMW part numbers. The headers will transform the bike for you.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Seems my initial honeymoon period with the bike is over. I was thinking of seeing what the dealer could do but sounds like nothing, i've just got to put up with no torque, poor pick-up and hesitant running.

I'm in no way a looney like most of the sports riders I see (not that I ever see many bikes on my type of routes) but I like to press on across country and my riding involves a heck of a lot of bends and it's not great having a bike without instant grunt.

I'll wait until the guarantee is up and then consider what tuning mods/exhaust changes can be made to make it better.

There's plenty of torque there, certainly far more than the R100 you had . I think Cookie hit the nail on the head with his comments.

Sounds to me you are trying to ride it like your old bike a heavy fly wheel does not equal torque.

The R1200 doesn't loosen up properly 'til well into the 'teen' thousands of miles and likes to be revved. A lot of peeps thinks the engine isn't torquey because of this, nothing could be further from the truth. Keep the revs up and use tha '2nd handful of throttle that there is and be prepared to scare yourself sh1tless on the the back roads 'cos it will fly.

Plenty of us like to 'press on' on the back roads as you put it and IMHO the R1200 is the perfect bike this side of a SM to blast the back roads on.

Andres

 

[Pukmeister]

Use Super Unleaded, I find Shells 98 Ron stuff makes a big difference to the pickup and smoothness.

I bet ditching the Cat for open headers and improving the fuelling with a PC or Techlusion box is the solution.

 

[Mikefirefighter]

confused

Doesn't the ECU adapt the fueling to compensate for any header or exhaust system fitted. If thats right then the fueling mixture will be identical whatever header you fit.

 

[cookie]

Doesn't the ECU adapt the fueling to compensate for any header or exhaust system fitted. If thats right then the fueling mixture will be identical whatever header you fit.

it only does that at low revs.

 

[Backroader]

My old R100GS was twin plugged and gas flowed so it had a little bit of urge.
It pulled out of bends seamlessly from nothing, in a highish gear, whereas the reality of the new one is more revs, lots of gearchanging or suffer throttle lag. Perhaps I should have kept the old girl.


Certainly I enjoy the new bike when giving it some stick but at low speeds, around town etc, it hesitates and gives a lurchy feeling.

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

What mileage on the bike? could still be tight?
very surprised if you don't have all the power you need for twisty roads.

 

[Pukmeister]

Certainly I enjoy the new bike when giving it some stick but at low speeds, around town etc, it hesitates and gives a lurchy feeling.

It probably needs more miles to loosen up plus some TLC in the setting up of valve clearances and throttle body synchronisation. That alone can make a world of difference to how the bike responds from part throttle.

Fitting the straight through headers will improve driveability across the rev range due to allowing improved gas flow, especially if the fuel curve is then optimised by fitting a power commander etc to solve the lean mixture evident due to the emissions lean running curve written into the stock ecu fuel map.

If you go for aftermarket headers and a free flowing air filter, my dealers insists that you MUST fit some form of fuel map enhancement device to prevent excessive lean running and engine damage.

 

[gsbiker]

I replaced my complete exhaust system with Kiehan headers ad Ackropovic silencer. First run and the bike ran terrible down the parkway. Put baffles back in and better. Now done almost 5000 miles from new and I now run with no baffles and the bike has compensated. However when I accelerate hard through the gears there are a few light flat spots i notice. Spoke to BMW this week and they told me I would need something like a power commander to adjust the fuelling as it's probably running lean hence the flat spots.

What I can say is that now I have changed the exhaust system I wouldn't go back through choice, sounds better and has alot more get up and go, especially in higher revs. Did a long ride yesterday, about 800 miles on the motorway, 80mph most of the way. but coming back I opened her up and easily got 110mph, then backed off to 80mph.

Tell you why I did the trip. Went to see a Yamaha RD500 which is for sale. Remember those race bikes? 2 stroke etc? Tell you what, these GS's will give them a run for their money i can tell you! Even loaded with the full ali pannier set!

My question is what sort of fuel add on mod do people recommend? Power commander has been mentioned, anything else?

 

[RickG]

Seems my initial honeymoon period with the bike is over. I was thinking of seeing what the dealer could do but sounds like nothing, i've just got to put up with no torque, poor pick-up and hesitant running.

I'm in no way a looney like most of the sports riders I see (not that I ever see many bikes on my type of routes) but I like to press on across country and my riding involves a heck of a lot of bends and it's not great having a bike without instant grunt.

I'll wait until the guarantee is up and then consider what tuning mods/exhaust changes can be made to make it better.

Ditching the cat will improve matters, as will 20,000 miles, but although the engine is quite torquey it only lifts up it skirt and presses on above 5000 rpm.

If you are used to what feels like low bottom end grunt like you may have experienced if you've ridden older BMW's, Guzzis, Harleys, big old Jap 4's etc. I'm not surprised you feel let down by the 1200. What's more it's relatively gutless for a modern big twin only putting out a feeble 90 something horses at the rear wheel.

However, it's still easy to progress at immensely silly speeds down twisty roads provided you stir the gearbox just a little and keep the revs above 4000 in the higher gears. The beauty of a 1200 is that it's actually very easy to ride quickly and therefore possible to do big milages on back roads at a good pace without getting tired.

If you are already giving it the beans and are still completely underwhelmed then you do indeed have a problem. Personally, if I felt I needed a just a little bit more oomph I'd ditch the cat and leave it at that. If I thought another 20-30bhp was necessary I'd not waste my money trying to wring it out of a 1200 but think hard about a sporty KTM or a big Jap 4, you'll still have to stir the gearbox though.

 

[SURMANATOR]

I have an 08 adventure took the cat out makes a huge improvement,to flatspots and low speed jerky running , Now out of a slow corner accelerate and the front end wants to lift never did that with the cat in !
SURMANATOR

 

[Backroader]

Ditching the cat will improve matters, as will 20,000 miles, but although the engine is quite torquey it only lifts up it skirt and presses on above 5000 rpm.

If you are used to what feels like low bottom end grunt like you may have experienced if you've ridden older BMW's, Guzzis, Harleys, big old Jap 4's etc. I'm not surprised you feel let down by the 1200. What's more it's relatively gutless for a modern big twin only putting out a feeble 90 something horses at the rear wheel.

However, it's still easy to progress at immensely silly speeds down twisty roads provided you stir the gearbox just a little and keep the revs above 4000 in the higher gears. The beauty of a 1200 is that it's actually very easy to ride quickly and therefore possible to do big milages on back roads at a good pace without getting tired.

RICKG - That sums it up sort of nicely I think.
For sure I will still enjoy the bike but it could be so much better as standard me thinks.