Rear Drive Bearing Failure

[billynomates]

Just had the 1200 ADV serviced at Coopers TW they found the rear drive bearing had failed after 6K the second one installed after the first was replaced at 10K.
I just wondered if the bearings they use are cheaply sourced or its a engineering fuck-up as I understand the RT1200 does'nt suffer these failures as often.
It does'nt alter my view of the bike as an excellent all rounder and fun to ride in all weathers.

 

[RickG]

you really need to do a search on this as it's a widely discussed topic. The bearings themselves are OK, if a bit marginal on beefiness but it's probably the setting up of the contact alignment between the pinion and crownwheel that's to blame. It seems that if it's done right they will last a long time, if not....

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Just had the 1200 ADV serviced at Coopers TW they found the rear drive bearing had failed after 6K the second one installed after the first was replaced at 10K.
I just wondered if the bearings they use are cheaply sourced or its a engineering fuck-up as I understand the RT1200 does'nt suffer these failures as often.
It does'nt alter my view of the bike as an excellent all rounder and fun to ride in all weathers.

Do you happen to know which bearings have failed?

 

[Kremmen]

I can remember reading an article last year in one of the comics that it's believed that final drive bearing were being sourced from the far east.... not japan.

 

[RickG]

I can remember reading an article last year in one of the comics that it's believed that final drive bearing were being sourced from the far east.... not japan.

Having changed mine I can confirm that for the opinion bearings at least, this is absolutely not the case, the large combined roller/ball bearing and the smaller pinion bearings are specials and European. The big bearing is the same as used in the 1150's.

 

[billynomates]

Having changed mine I can confirm that for the opinion bearings at least, this is absolutely not the case, the large combined roller/ball bearing and the smaller pinion bearings are specials and European. The big bearing is the same as used in the 1150's.

If the bearing is identical to the 1150 why are there so many failures on the 1200GS's compared too the 1150's or even the 1200RT.
I also have a 1100S BCR and had no issues with this final drive with double the mileage.
Cheers Ian

 

[Padge]

I can remember reading an article last year in one of the comics that it's believed that final drive bearing were being sourced from the far east.... not japan.

Pretty sure mine were INA from Germany.

If the bearing is identical to the 1150 why are there so many failures on the 1200GS's compared too the 1150's or even the 1200RT.
I also have a 1100S BCR and had no issues with this final drive with double the mileage.
Cheers Ian

Rick has already answered this... It seems all down to shimming (and failry shite design)

setting up of the contact alignment between the pinion and crownwheel that's to blame. It seems that if it's done right they will last a long time, if not....

 

[billynomates]

Pretty sure mine were INA from Germany.



Rick has already answered this... It seems all down to shimming (and failry shite design)

If its down to shimming then its down to the dealers mechanics so why have BMW not retrained all there mechanics so its not repeated?
Surely that would be more cost effective than replacing whole drive units,and also they must be badly set up from new as well in the factory if so it would make sense to put it the PDI as a check?
Ian

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

If its down to shimming then its down to the dealers mechanics so why have BMW not retrained all there mechanics so its not repeated?
Surely that would be more cost effective than replacing whole drive units,and also they must be badly set up from new as well in the factory if so it would make sense to put it the PDI as a check?
Ian

Think its only recently that dealers have had the equipment and the details to rebuild the 1200 FD. Before that it was a whole new FD swaped over so the dealers really cant be blamed for this. Originally the FD's were sealed for life which didnt work then they increased the pinion bearing size and later they changed the case so oil can be changed easily. Don't know if the final 08-09 is any better. As for large bearing, if the pinion bearing goes the big bearing will soon go after them and the stresses are all wrong which could explain why they are fine on the 1150 but fail on the 1200.

 

[RickG]

Think its only recently that dealers have had the equipment and the details to rebuild the 1200 FD. Before that it was a whole new FD swaped over so the dealers really cant be blamed for this. Originally the FD's were sealed for life which didnt work then they increased the pinion bearing size and later they changed the case so oil can be changed easily. Don't know if the final 08-09 is any better. As for large bearing, if the pinion bearing goes the big bearing will soon go after them and the stresses are all wrong which could explain why they are fine on the 1150 but fail on the 1200.

Two points:

Final drives do fail on 11xx's too, though seemingly less often.

The final drive rebuild is a total bitch. It's a long job, needs a fair bit of skill if reshimming is required and has probably been seen as not worth the effort by BMW when you cost-in the labour. As one of the crown wheel bearing tracks is part of the crown wheel itself, it this is knackered you need a new crown wheel and pinion set which I believe is about half the cost of a whole new drive before you even start the job. It's easy to see how the economics favour the replacement option. If 'only' the pinion bearings that have gone it must now be economical to do the rebuild.

 

[RogerJ]

Yes proper shimming is the answer. Whether in a rebuild situation or as a replacement. BTW don't assume that the units from the factory come properly shimmed.

 

[Pathologic]

Hi Billy

sorry to hear you are having a bad time with the FD. My 2009 SE was OK at 6k service at Cooper's. Hope they have got yours right this time.

regards,


Path.

 

[jpooch00]

Just had the 1200 ADV serviced at Coopers TW they found the rear drive bearing had failed after 6K the second one installed after the first was replaced at 10K.
I just wondered if the bearings they use are cheaply sourced or its a engineering fuck-up as I understand the RT1200 does'nt suffer these failures as often.
It does'nt alter my view of the bike as an excellent all rounder and fun to ride in all weathers.

Go here for a list of failures. You might want to add yours. http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Interesting reading that and I can take a few things away from it. It isnt just the GSA and GS line that have problems, in fact it looks like the K1200 is by far the biggest offender. The older 1100 1150 seem to fail pretty regularly as well. The skew in the figures toward the K12 could easy be because the list is mainly American and that model could be the most popular where here the GS is more popular. One way or the other though it looks like ALL BMW FD's can fail.

 

[bumpy]

Go here for a list of failures. You might want to add yours. http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php

From that list it looks like only one person in the UK has sufferred a failure.

 

[RickG]

Interesting reading that and I can take a few things away from it. It isnt just the GSA and GS line that have problems, in fact it looks like the K1200 is by far the biggest offender. The older 1100 1150 seem to fail pretty regularly as well. The skew in the figures toward the K12 could easy be because the list is mainly American and that model could be the most popular where here the GS is more popular. One way or the other though it looks like ALL BMW FD's can fail.

In the absence of actual figures it's easy to make guesses as to the distribution of the failures. There's also more chance of an FD wearing out as the miles clock up. From an engineering perspective surely the greater the power/torque that the drive has to transmit, the greater the chance of failure? If that were to be the case, then in terms of failure per mile you'd expect to see 1100's being the most reliable, with the K12's being the worst. Is the K series FD identical to the GS?

 

[billynomates]

Thanks everyone
By the way this is not a whinge I love the bike and it will only be replaced when this one becomes uneconomical to repair then it will be replaced with another.
Just wondered if there was a proper engineering solution but it looks like BMW cant be bothered due to financial implications.
Ian