Reliability - summary for newbie

[red1]

The GS's are no better or worse than anything else.

I think that is looking at the bikes through rose tinted glasses. I can't think of any other manufacturer that has continued to fit known faulty parts for 4 years into production (EWS, fuel relay).

They aren't bomb proof though and just because you've spent 10k + doesn't mean you don't have to look after the beast. They will suffer corrosion and maybe the odd mechanical just like any other bike you buy. Don't presume that because it has BMW on the badge it means it's some kind of magic machine that never has an issue.

The problem is that most new buyers (new or S/h) have listened to the "Unstoppable" ads, seen "Long Way Round/Down", believe BMW is a premium brand, and for the premium price expect a bullet proof machine.

If you want to check out reliability go to the Iron Butt US site and see which bikes have problems over long distances.

 

[Rasher]

I have not made up my mind yet, but yes for a bike costing up to £15k (as much as my last car was new) I do expect reliability.

I have taken many cars past 100k without problems, several cheap jap bikes past 30-40k and in over 100,000 miles of riding jap four strokes never had a major failure, just wheel bearings, discs, chains etc.

I had a Seat car which had been affected by the infamous dodgy coil pack problems, the car was two years out of warranty and the coils were working fine. When phoning the dealer to book a service I was offered a new set free-gratis as my car was one originally fitted with dodgy set - That is what I would expect from BMW regarding FPC's, acknowledgement it is their fault and until they provide a reliable unit to everyone no charges. We are talking of a part that probably costs them £5 in bulk, is it worth putting off loyal customers who may spend £10,000 plus on a new bike to make a quick buck?

As to all bikes having problems, well yes they do, I moderate a ZZR forum, and so far we have not had one single major failure, yes it has some problems, but nothing to do with fundemental reliability, or anything that costs more than a few hundred quid to upgrade and at £2k less with a lot more componentary and sportier stance (i.e. no pretence of being capable of circumnavigating the globe) it is doing a lot better than BMW's premier mile munching flagship.

Anyway off to dealer in a bit for extended test ride and chat about warranty, support and what has been officially recalled etc.

 

[Chris Terry]

Rasher, from post #125 in this thread http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2481941#post2481941 it is clear that you have decided not to buy a 1200GS.

Having satisfied yourself that it is a pile of crap, made of Chinese components, assembled by idiots, in a company run by accountants and (in all probability) ridden by people too stupid to realise that they have been hoodwinked, isn't it time to stop? If only to give yourself some breathing space to simply enjoy the bike you (might) have decided to buy?

I'm with Wapping
If you don't like the bike (for what ever reason) buy something else. Although I get the feeling you will agonise until you buy new PS3 & large plasma TV.
Some times you need to go with your first gut feeling

 

[Rasher]

Just looked the the FD failure thread.

It don't seem that isolated, if it was multiple failures should be unheard of, counted 22 failed bikes here (at under 50k), but 7 of them had more than one failure, 2 owners have also had two bikes fail.

Assuming a (very poor) rate of 1 in 100 fail at under 50k, then the chances of two failures is 1,000 to 1, three failures a million to one, and the bike with four failures weighs in at a hefty 100 million to one.

I am sure a statistician could draw a lot more from the raw numbers, but these faults are anything from isolated, I do not know how BMW cannot be seriously looking into these when it is very common for bikes to have 2,3 or 4 major failures at relatively low miles.

If this was one of their cars they would be sorting it, then again it would also be in the press and on the telly if a car was this fundementally flawed.

 

[Wapping]

I do expect reliability.

I am sure a statistician could draw a lot more from the raw numbers...

Then, judging by the results of your extensive research, you are going to be disappointed.

Based on your posts, you have been riding Japanese multi-cylinder bikes (12 in all) for 20 years, clocking up 100,000 miles in the process, without one significant failure.

As you seem to like crude statistics, I make that:

An average annual mileage of 5,000 per bike.

You have had about 12 bikes in 20 years. You therefore swap bikes roughly every 18 months. So, each bike clocks up about 7,500 miles whilst in your hands.

The service interval on an ober unterreliable BuMW is 6,000 miles or once every 12 months. Chances are you will not be making more that one visit to the dealer's for a service before moving on. Reliability should be the least of your worries.

 

[Wapping]

Anyway off to dealer in a bit for extended test ride and chat about warranty, support and what has been officially recalled etc.

I can imagine the scene in the dealer's.

PS The full OM's warrany is two years on a new bike and includes Euopean recovery.

This is extenable annually thereafter (subject to some not uncommon mileage, age and service criteria) via a BuMW branded insurance based product, which is different, but again includes European recovery. The cost? About £350 a year. You can find all the details via Google or at a local dealers. There are of course third-party extended warranty products available; again, a Google search will turn them up. I have made two claims under both the OM and extended warranty products in 53,000 miles since June 06 on one 1200GSA. Both for final drive problems at roughly 24,000 mile intervals. As mindless statistics are in vogue, that is roughly once around the world each time. Or further if you accept the Guinness book of records 'round the world road milegae, which is closer to 19,000. I also suffered a fuel pump controller failure at about 19,000 miles. But as I had a spare I was not much troubled, it taking about half an hour to remove the old one and re-fit a new one. I recovered the cost of the item from my friendly local dealer. Not by shouting or moaning that it was a shonky load of crap, built and serviced by idiots, but by asking politely.

As it's an 'around the world' bike, I guess it's done its job.... but had I used it only for fetching root vegetables from Tesco's, I might well have been disappointed.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

Rasher, you mentioned that all you have had fail is wheel bearings. Well read most of the "my FD has failed threads. I think you will find most of them are just that, a failed wheel bearing. Just because it is all wrapped up in one unit the whole FD gets slated as being useless. Would you say your back wheel failed on a Jap bike because the bearing failed? The hard part to fix on the FD is the pinion bearing and this seams to be restricted to the early bikes before they upgraded the bearing. Yes WHEEL bearings still fail and maybe they shouldn't but as you said yourself even the mighty Japanese bikes get failed wheel bearings. Admittedly BMW didn't help themselves here as they swapped out the whole FD most of the time. Partly because they wanted to examine what the failure was and partly because its simply quicker for the customer. They are now starting to replace the bearing itself which might eventually kill the whole FD has blown up myth. As said before if your don't feel happy then don't get the bike, go by a 1200 tenere instead.

 

[Merv]

At least your not jumping in with both feet,best to weigh up the pros and cons before u make ur mind up,problem is when you buy something else you will probably still hanker after a 12,sell whatever you bought,probably lose the cost of a final drive or 2,best to buy the 12 and get it out of ur system one way or another as talk is cheap and you will never satisfy yourself by what others tell u,
ps if u dont like the bmw 1 advantage is that the depreciation will most likely be less than anything else
Buy it,ride it,put warranty on it if ur worried,u might find u like it

 

[Rasher]

Great advice guys, just had a chat with my dealer.

They reckon the drive units have had some mods along the way, so newer ones are most likely better, also they now change the oil, whereas originally it was supposed to last lifetime of the bike.

The claim FPC / EWS are now sorted and any from known dodgy batches would be replaced FOC even out of warranty period.

I guess a blown FD is a risk, but a complete unit is a cheaper than expected £1,000 and as stated sometimes bits can be replaced.

£350 a year for extending warranty is a bit borderline, as I guess in 3 years you would save £1050 and on my 6k a year may be a risk worth taking.

 

[blueboyxyz]

go on rasher be a devil, you know you want to,

 

[Stretchamus]

Great advice guys, just had a chat with my dealer.

They reckon the drive units have had some mods along the way, so newer ones are most likely better, also they now change the oil, whereas originally it was supposed to last lifetime of the bike.

The claim FPC / EWS are now sorted and any from known dodgy batches would be replaced FOC even out of warranty period.

I guess a blown FD is a risk, but a complete unit is a cheaper than expected £1,000 and as stated sometimes bits can be replaced.

£350 a year for extending warranty is a bit borderline, as I guess in 3 years you would save £1050 and on my 6k a year may be a risk worth taking.

Good glad that's settled then, what colour

 

[Rasher]

What colours have good FD's ?

It has only got more confusing now I understand all the pack nonsense as I would ideally like a Comfort Package +ESA, but would settle for the Comfort package, but consider a Premium Package, but do not want the Dynamic package.

Still unsure about reliability TBH, although people say it is isolated, so many bikes blah, blah, blah. But nothing else seems to be an issue, so if the rest of the bike is so damn industructible then the FD is an embarrasingly poor weak link.

What may be better is a poll on the forum, a simple yes or no to "has your FD exploded yet", did this on the 14 forum for discs and it soon became clear about 1/3rd of owners had suffered this problem, taking into account bikes ar from 0-4 years old it was easy to conclude the average owner was likely to need some at some point, and yes it is damn common.

I would feel far more cosy if I knew it rally was only 1% of owners who have had this happen, as opposed to the impression the site gives that they are just as bad as ZZR discs and unfortunately with no permenant cure, at least I just had to pay £400 to get a set which will last many years.

I am surprised no third party company has taken to refurbing the drives and using a harder type of chocolate for the bearing manufacture.

 

[Wapping]

What colours have good FD's ?

What may be better is a poll on the forum, a simple yes or no to "has your FD exploded yet", did this on the 14 forum......

I would feel far more cosy if I knew it rally was only 1% of owners who have had this happen......

All done http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2483633#post2483633

 

[bod]

Great advice guys, just had a chat with my dealer.

They reckon the drive units have had some mods along the way, so newer ones are most likely better, also they now change the oil, whereas originally it was supposed to last lifetime of the bike.

The claim FPC / EWS are now sorted and any from known dodgy batches would be replaced FOC even out of warranty period.

I guess a blown FD is a risk, but a complete unit is a cheaper than expected £1,000 and as stated sometimes bits can be replaced.

£350 a year for extending warranty is a bit borderline, as I guess in 3 years you would save £1050 and on my 6k a year may be a risk worth taking.

Rasher my paranoid friend!

55 plate GS1200, no FPC issues, no final drive issues,no corrosion issues, no issues of any kind!

Still has 5 year old factory battery fitted - going strong!

Sometimes you need to follow your heart, switch off the PC & live your life!

You get 3 score & 10 . . . don't waste 'em !!!

BMW will tell you what you want to here - Take it from another with a 25 year history with Jap bikes . . .

. . . The 1200 is a great bike that gets under your skin like no Jap bike ever can.
My GS would have to seriously piss me off to get rid of it!

 

[Wapping]

55 plate GS1200, no FPC issues, no final drive issues,no corrosion issues, no issues of any kind!

Vote in the poll

 

[bod]

Vote in the poll

Sorted!

 

[Wapping]

Sorted!

Phew, and thank you.

You vote counts

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

No brand loyalty here, infact I stiiiiil can't believe I ride a WBM

Part of the reason I reckon the GS is such a good bike is because it DOES need a bit of owner involvement and a bit of TLC now and again. In an age of antiseptic Jap and (dare I say it) British bike the Getmans and Italians (forget Harleys ) keep the flag flying for quirky, imperfect, charachterful bikes

If my GS was perfect I wouldn't be nterested - is that weird?

It's been to Maroc twice, to Turkey and numerous trips around France, Spain an Italy........I've spent a fortune on discs and had a FD replaced on warranty (poor paint finish). I've bought a spare FD off EBay for £150 so have a temp replacement if mine goes and has to be rebuilt.

I've grown up with mostly Italian and some Brit bikes so as far as my terms of reference go the MWB is the most reliable bike I've owned pretty much.

I call it 'character'

 

[Wapping]

I call it 'character'

Others call it blind stupid brainwashing by an unscrupulous, bottom line driven, mega-manufacturer.

'Character' is of course, shorter.

 

[Giles]

No brand loyalty here, infact I stiiiiil can't believe I ride a WBM

Part of the reason I reckon the GS is such a good bike is because it DOES need a bit of owner involvement and a bit of TLC now and again. In an age of antiseptic Jap and (dare I say it) British bike the Getmans and Italians (forget Harleys ) keep the flag flying for quirky, imperfect, charachterful bikes

If my GS was perfect I wouldn't be nterested - is that weird?

It's been to Maroc twice, to Turkey and numerous trips around France, Spain an Italy........I've spent a fortune on discs and had a FD replaced on warranty (poor paint finish). I've bought a spare FD off EBay for £150 so have a temp replacement if mine goes and has to be rebuilt.

I've grown up with mostly Italian and some Brit bikes so as far as my terms of reference go the MWB is the most reliable bike I've owned pretty much.

I call it 'character'

I remember years ago being in Spain on a tour, and there was a guy there on some sort of Guzzi cafe racer. Every morning when I went into the carpark, and he would already be there, tool roll laid out on the floor, on his haunches with some feeler gauges checking his valve clearances !!

Oh how I used to scoff to myself! I was on a 1300 Pan, which never ever, missed a beat, a gear, never had a flat bettery, never had a wobble...... and took me all over Europe.

It was the most sterile, boring, bland, characterless, unloving, reliable bike I've ever owned. There was simply no love affair there. Brilliant bike, truly, a really, really capable bike, but as boring as Ed Miliband .

To the guy on the Guzzi (I think his name was Mark...) I apologise for taking the p1ss!!!