Have to remember that for example in Australia and NZ you need to take bike to inspection. If brake light is flashing, they will not allow you to ride on public roads.
But, after many days of riding, rear break is working really well!
Remove ABS from the rear brake (2005 R1200GS). How?
- Thread starter Hemuli
- Start date
Have to remember that for example in Australia and NZ you need to take bike to inspection. If brake light is flashing, they will not allow you to ride on public roads.
But, after many days of riding, rear break is working really well!
When you get up to Alaska, call in a see Dan and Shawn at www.advcycleworks.com in Fairbanks. They might be able to find a way to get rid of the light on the dash. They are brilliant in there and if you need any parts, tyres etc they can order them in for you. Do not go to BMW in Fairbanks if you need anything up there as they are a shower of shit......!!
I rode my old 1100 for 1000's miles with the ABS lights flashing. Black electrical tape is a wonderful thing.......
I rode my old 1100 for 1000's miles with the ABS lights flashing. Black electrical tape is a wonderful thing.......
The Grey One
Registered user
ABS works by measuring rotation of the wheel and releasing the brake for a fraction of a second when rotation stops or almost stops. It uses vehicle speed to determine this to ensure that the brakes don't come off when the vehicle stops. So the comparison between front and rear is irrelevant at speed other wise it won't work if all wheels lock
John
The below link to a BMW site would seem to vindicate my original statement. The system compares front & rear wheel rotation.
http://www.bmw-motorrad.com/com/en/...com/en/technology_new/item_asc.html¬rack=1
The Grey One
Registered user
That's not ABS they are talking about, it's the traction control which is not the same. ABS releases the relevant brake for a fraction of a second just as that wheel stops turning. If it just compared front and rear rotation it could not work if both wheels locked.
John
Click on the tab marked
ABS, fully and part integral
I have to say i was directed to this site by a BMW tech at Bracknell; he said the attached would save him typing out how ABS works, but he ended up saying "If the wheels cannot compare with each other, you have no ABS"
ABS, fully and part integral
I have to say i was directed to this site by a BMW tech at Bracknell; he said the attached would save him typing out how ABS works, but he ended up saying "If the wheels cannot compare with each other, you have no ABS"
The Grey One
Registered user
Your link worked once, took me directly to a page about the traction control system, now it just comes up with an error message
The fact is basic ABS, that is those systems not connected to a traction control system etc, works by releasing brake pressure for a faction on a second at the point of lock up. It does this by measuring rotation of the wheel in question. If it simply compared the two wheels it could not prevent a two wheel skid. He is right in that the ABS will no work unless it gets a signal from all wheels but it uses individual front or rear wheel information to decide which wheel to modulate. The "brain" will switch off the ABS if it does not receive the signals from all the wheel sensors. The system will use info from both sensors as part of it's calculations but not simply a direct comparison, the over riding criteria being a wheel at the point of locking up.
The principle of ABS is simply and is just that a skilled driver or rider would do. ABS systems just do it quicker and don't rely on operator skill. At the point where the wheel is stopping rotating the pressure is released and re applied to prevent a skid. On a bike this has to apply individually to the front and rear wheel.
John
The fact is basic ABS, that is those systems not connected to a traction control system etc, works by releasing brake pressure for a faction on a second at the point of lock up. It does this by measuring rotation of the wheel in question. If it simply compared the two wheels it could not prevent a two wheel skid. He is right in that the ABS will no work unless it gets a signal from all wheels but it uses individual front or rear wheel information to decide which wheel to modulate. The "brain" will switch off the ABS if it does not receive the signals from all the wheel sensors. The system will use info from both sensors as part of it's calculations but not simply a direct comparison, the over riding criteria being a wheel at the point of locking up.
The principle of ABS is simply and is just that a skilled driver or rider would do. ABS systems just do it quicker and don't rely on operator skill. At the point where the wheel is stopping rotating the pressure is released and re applied to prevent a skid. On a bike this has to apply individually to the front and rear wheel.
John
Bendy toy
Registered user
ABS works individually on most cars though some cheaper versions operate the back wheels as a pair (both on or off) with front wheels independent.
Traction on many cars compares left and right powered wheel speed so when they both spin it just lets them carry on. My Punto HGT did that and my Audi A4 1.9TDI. More sophisticated systems compare front and back wheel speeds and sometimes use the ABS to slow down a spinning wheel so the other side can take the drive. Alfa Romeo Brera does that.
Traction on many cars compares left and right powered wheel speed so when they both spin it just lets them carry on. My Punto HGT did that and my Audi A4 1.9TDI. More sophisticated systems compare front and back wheel speeds and sometimes use the ABS to slow down a spinning wheel so the other side can take the drive. Alfa Romeo Brera does that.
John, we are starting to sound like philosophers debating how many fairies can dance on a pin head. I know, as a layman not an engineer, broadly speaking how ABS works. It's a computerised cadence braking. None of your above contradicts my original post.
however, you did say, & I quote "So the comparison between front and rear is irrelevant".
I have just tried the link, which is working again, & it states "Wheel sensors measure the rotational speed of the front and rear wheels and identify when the wheel begins to lock."
So the rotational difference is relevant, according to BMW.
The Grey One
Registered user
At the risk of turning this into ping pong, the rotational difference is not what a basic ABS system measures. If you stamp on the rear at speed the ABS will activate on the rear wheel because that is the wheel locking up. The fact that the front is still rotating normally will simply mean that the front brake will not be modulated. The quote from BMW (link still not working by the way) says just that. The system identifies when a wheel is about to lock. A comparison between front and rear wont help much but is used in more sophisticated systems that use the ABS in conjunction with traction control. So unless the bike has traction control the comparison between front and rear remains irrelevant.
John
I would suggest the ABS on our 1200's is far from a basic system, & certainly on my GSA & RT there is also ASC. If a BMW website ( which opens for me every time
) says it's relevant, & if a BMW AG technician & trainer says the two wheels rotations are compared, & if the one value for whatever reason does not get to the ECU, in his words "You don't have ABS" - I'll go with that.
I think we must agree to disagree.
) says it's relevant, & if a BMW AG technician & trainer says the two wheels rotations are compared, & if the one value for whatever reason does not get to the ECU, in his words "You don't have ABS" - I'll go with that.I think we must agree to disagree.
The Grey One
Registered user
I would suggest the ABS on our 1200's is far from a basic system, & certainly on my GSA & RT there is also ASC. If a BMW website ( which opens for me every time
I think we must agree to disagree.
You can, of course, believe anything you like, the fact remains that it is traction control that measures the difference between the two wheels. It compares wheel speed to decide when to cut or reduce power to prevent loss of grip. More sophisticated systems link to the abs and apply the brake to the spinning wheel. This is now common on cars where one driven wheel can be braked and power can be kept on the opposite wheel due to the there being a diff. to take care of things. The traction control system uses the abs sensors to measure wheel speed-it would be pointless to fit another rotation sensor to each wheel. Using signals from the same sensors does not necessarily mean the two systems are connected. Abs systems self check to see that the system is functioning and will switch themselves off if there is no signal from one of the wheel sensors, That is why they are telling you that you have no abs if the don't get a value from one sensor. We can agree on that
The traction control would not work either for the same reason.John
Short update to this thread.
Brakes have been good and mod worked until ABS-unit started to build pressure to the rear line.
After checking it more carefully, I think the reason was that pressure to the incoming line in ABS unit has caused some gunk inside the module to move so that servo for the rear unit has started to work.
When pressure in the rear line is high enough, front servo stops working (need to bleed rear line).
This caused some leakage from the "loop" hose and finally failure of the hose (I rode few thousand km before first indication of this problem).
Next thing what I did was to drain all brake fluid from the rear line and installed new "loop hose". Now I do not feel any pressure in that hose and front servo works perfectly.
I will now keep on riding (heading to Brudhoe Bay in Alaska) and update again after few thousand km.
Brakes have been good and mod worked until ABS-unit started to build pressure to the rear line.
After checking it more carefully, I think the reason was that pressure to the incoming line in ABS unit has caused some gunk inside the module to move so that servo for the rear unit has started to work.
When pressure in the rear line is high enough, front servo stops working (need to bleed rear line).
This caused some leakage from the "loop" hose and finally failure of the hose (I rode few thousand km before first indication of this problem).
Next thing what I did was to drain all brake fluid from the rear line and installed new "loop hose". Now I do not feel any pressure in that hose and front servo works perfectly.
I will now keep on riding (heading to Brudhoe Bay in Alaska) and update again after few thousand km.
Bendy toy
Registered user
Will be interested to hear the next instalment when the rear ABS is restored does it still work?
Engine is still totally original, never opened. I change oil every 5000km and oil filter every 10000km.
There are some corrosion in the bike (normal areas), but I think after this kind of usage bike should already look like it has been used
Bevel box? Is that final drive or gearbox?
I do quite much preventative maintenance, so I have not had big surprises. Still totally enjoy this bike.
This is a good question. I am not sure if I want to have ABS back to the rear (if I can get it through TÜV (MOT) somehow).
Bendy toy
Registered user
Bevel box = final drive. 
(angle gears are "beveled")
It's interesting you prefer the bike with ABS on front only. I do find it cuts in early at back but I hardly ever ride off road so it has not been an issue. I can see why that would be bad for off road.
(angle gears are "beveled")
It's interesting you prefer the bike with ABS on front only. I do find it cuts in early at back but I hardly ever ride off road so it has not been an issue. I can see why that would be bad for off road.
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