RISE NOW AND BE A NATION AGAIN !

I see Fat Eck wants a Scotland "where we respect each other’s views, regardless of how passionately we hold our own." I have given up any hope of hearing any of Toddy's views but I respect his right not to have an original thought in his head about the yes vote. I am not sure if he is typical of the yes voters but it is worrying that anybody is thinking of voting on the future of a nation without having apparently put any of the assertions about what that future will be like under any sort of logical scrutiny in his own mind before coming to a decision. This is what brain washing does to someone but I thought political indoctrination was not going to start until after the soviet style republic had been established. looks like I was wrong.
 
Derek Bateman's blog today........

The Sun Has got His Hat On
by derekbateman
What a day I’m having…I had my belly laugh at Johann presenting herself as stateswoman of the year (she’s been watching Borgen) and then Alistair Carmichael entered my territory by reminding us that the real choice is not between independence and devolution but between Scotland and Britain – which is your country?

And then one of my contributors, Grahamski, the Impaler of Nationalists, does the same thing by stating: “I put Scotland first and believe it is in our best interests to maintain political union with the rest of the UK.”

Exactly. And what does that union mean in practice? That Britain not Scotland runs our affairs from deciding our budget through the votes of an overwhelming majority of English MPs, telling us when we can go to war, representing us on the world stage and taking command of our natural resources. They can still remove our parliament whenever they choose and they’re now dictating to us which currency we can/can’t use. They’re threatening to take away our defence contracts if we don’t do as they say and make (more) shipworkers unemployed. We now have 4 per cent representation in the Palace of Westminster. We’ve even had to fight for control over airguns.

Britain retains all the power over us and is the nation state while Scotland is an administrative region within that state. If you vote for that continuing then, whether you care to spell it out or not, Britain is your country, Scotland your second choice. Only a country standing shoulder to shoulder as an equal with every other country on earth can truly be called a nation. That is the definition applied by every other country in the UN. Voting to keep your homeland a region of another in a straight choice is never putting your country first, it is acknowledging that you are second best and either unworthy or ill-equipped for full statehood. You can of course engage in self-justifying comfort statements about being better together but there is no escaping the reality – and that which will be seen by every other country after a No vote – that the Scots didn’t think their country was worth its own independence. They didn’t put Scotland first. They put their membership of the UK ahead of their own independence.

(This is quite a different question from Would Scotland be better off or Is it in our best interests.) But we’re not being asked those questions – important as they are. We are being asked for the first time in 300 years if we want to be independent and run our own affairs or do we prefer to play a subsidiary role in Britain. Yes is for Scotland. No is for Britain. No amount of sophistry and bluster can hide the hard truth confronting every Scot in the voting booth.

(I got a great deal on my wine at Tesco Maryhill and now the sun’s come out…Happy New Year to you all)

derekbateman | December 31, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: http://wp.me/p3VILZ-5d
 
I am not sure if this adds to the debate in any way but I just wanted to show off my cut and paste skills in case the yes campaign thought I did not know about ctrl+c and ctrl+v.

SCOTTISH independence could jeopardise scientific breakthroughs and curtail the careers of young scientists, according to a bacteriologist who is spearheading a group of academics who will campaign to keep the UK together.


Academics Together, a new arm of the pro-Union Better Together campaign, will be launched with a speech by Professor Hugh Pennington, emeritus professor of bacteriology at Aberdeen University.

He will hail the UK’s “large, highly integrated, internationally renowned UK research base” and Better Together chief Alistair Darling will point out the “disproportionately high share of UK research funding” Scottish facilities receive for a country with less than a tenth of the UK’s population.

Speaking ahead of the launch in Glasgow, Prof Pennington said: “I would hate to see our world-leading reputation for innovation and discovery put at risk. I would hate to see the next big breakthrough jeopardised or see the chances of a young researcher curtailed.

“The absence of barriers allows not just funding and people, but ideas and innovation, to flow freely across borders.

“I don’t want to put the success of Scotland’s world-leading research at risk.”

Prof Pennington added: “I believe the best way to build on that success is to continue working together as part of the UK. That is why I have joined Academics Together – to make the strong, positive case for Scotland remaining in the UK.”

I can also change the font and the colour as well as do underscore. Lets see the yes campaign do that in an independent Scotland Huh!!
 
wully said:
One 'takes' a newspaper. One might 'buy' something like The Sun, which is a comic. ( no sae bad foaties oh tits but)
Click to expand...
Haw thanks Wull :beerjug: i dinna think oi wis a complete hignoramous:D
 
I sense an element of nastiness has crept in to this debate; the blame for some of this can be laid at my door, for this I apologise.

I love this country and its people, and I want what's best for it and us.

I don't think independence, and the inevitable----and permanent--- regimes, due to demographic idiosyncrasies, that will follow will be best for us and the country.

It would be awful if ignorance and a misplaced sense of national indignation takes us into a wilderness where the lunatics run the asylum.

However, I take great pride and joy in living here, and will continue to do so. I don't need free prescriptions and eye tests, but will continue to accept them. Not free by the way....some-one has to pay.....while it lasts.

I think that the movement for independence will be rejected, and hope we can move together as a nation.....for that is what we are, with or without independence.... for the good of all of us. There is much that is phoney in the SNP, but, with luck, after a no vote they can move forward, and try and do what is best for Scotland, rather than what is best for them. The same must go for Labour, who will probably be elected after the power hungry SNP party is inevitably rejected.

I have sat and listened to Wee Eck in a room in Perth. He is a powerful and skilled orator. If there was a vote within a few months of that meeting, I would have voted for him. I now know him to be a devious and self serving politician. Some-one cleverer than me said 'it doesn't matter who you vote for....you always end up with a politician..... '

But whatever, in the meantime, I will enjoy hogmanay, and shake the hand of every-one I meet!! And pour them a dram!!

I'm now off to get ready to put off 2 shots from my .308, one for the old year, one for the new..whatever it brings!!

Happy New Year ...to all!!
 
Sorry, back to nasty, I haven't, and wont, followed any of your links thus far, and don't plan to change in 2014. If its interesting, some-one will tell me about it!! If not.....I wont have wasted my time!!
 
gerarddwatts said:
I sense an element of nastiness has crept in to this debate; the blame for some of this can be laid at my door, for this I apologise.

I love this country and its people, and I want what's best for it and us.

I don't think independence, and the inevitable----and permanent--- regimes, due to demographic idiosyncrasies, that will follow will be best for us and the country.

It would be awful if ignorance and a misplaced sense of national indignation takes us into a wilderness where the lunatics run the asylum.

However, I take great pride and joy in living here, and will continue to do so. I don't need free prescriptions and eye tests, but will continue to accept them. Not free by the way....some-one has to pay.....while it lasts.

I think that the movement for independence will be rejected, and hope we can move together as a nation.....for that is what we are, with or without independence.... for the good of all of us. There is much that is phoney in the SNP, but, with luck, after a no vote they can move forward, and try and do what is best for Scotland, rather than what is best for them. The same must go for Labour, who will probably be elected after the power hungry SNP party is inevitably rejected.

I have sat and listened to Wee Eck in a room in Perth. He is a powerful and skilled orator. If there was a vote within a few months of that meeting, I would have voted for him. I now know him to be a devious and self serving politician. Some-one cleverer than me said 'it doesn't matter who you vote for....you always end up with a politician..... '

But whatever, in the meantime, I will enjoy hogmanay, and shake the hand of every-one I meet!! And pour them a dram!!

I'm now off to get ready to put off 2 shots from my .308, one for the old year, one for the new..whatever it brings!!

Happy New Year ...to all!!
Click to expand...

Respect to you for your intelligent considered opinions :thumb2

My sister is married to a proud Scot and when I raised the independence question with a few visiting Scottish relatives a couple of months back, none thought an independent Scotland would be a better place then it is now and the fact that you can get 4/1 on Scotland voting to be independent later this year tells you all you need to know about how the majority of Scots feel.

Viewing this thread as a neutral, some of the Yes people seem to be trying to stop freedom of speech and bully those who don't agree with them. I am not surprised as their argument is as weak as their passion is strong.

Despite the insistence of a surprising number of Scots that the English are gnashing their teeth and fretting about the Scots leaving; Scotland doesn't matter to most English one way or another but feel if the scheming Scottish scolds do pursuade the others to go it alone then we are rid of some unpleasant, some racist and some downright dim people. Pity we will lose a lot of people not in those catergories but such is life.

Good luck to Scotland whatever the outcome :beerjug:
 
feck me mate i think you'll find scotland is light years ahead in regards to tolerance of other nationalities than than your alleged race free england.i think not.
 
TO TODDY
WE get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you want to vote yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!
So do I BBUUTT ,,,,, Quit wi the sermonising to our fellow Scots!!! and let them make up their own minds !!
This is after all a free and democratic society and you will simply HAVE to accept that not everyone has/will have the same point of view. On the day after the referendum we shall all be bound to accept the result and be thankful that we live in the said democratic society, and not an African state or a bannana republic where the weapons would be geting dusted off the next morning for a civil war over the issue.
I will personally be disappointed if this historic opportunity to regain our nationhood is rejected by the electorate, (because the people were not consulted in any meaningfull way before the union of the crowns)
I KNOW i will be worse off £££ , and my politics are away to the right wing of anything that the SNP or Labour voters are ever going to accept in anything approaching the near to mid term future.
I am prepared to accept the risk and deal with the inevitable fall out, i am fortunate to be in a position to do this, many others are not, and , will vote accordingly. By all means enthuse about it, but don,t sermonise ,it will not/would not be a land of milk and honey, there will /would be some difficult negotiating to do , not every one will be happy at the outcome.
I for instance think that removing the nuclear deterent is lunacy of the HIGHEST order, but that,s currently part of the price for me on a personal level.
So please tolerate others points of view on here :thumb2
And IMHO there is no point in debating the issue with anyone that does not have a vote:D:D:D
All the very best for the new year:beer:
 
So, if Scotland is to be like Australia . . Who is going to protect the country as Scotland won't have:

Air Force,
Army,
Navy,
Border Protection Agency,
Fishery Protection Service
Click to expand...

Bob,
as far as I can understand, if the vote goes with the "Yes" bods, there will be negotiations with the UK government to give Scotland a share of the existing armed forces. So Scotland might get a couple of frigates and a few fishery protection boats and a squadron of aircraft. There will also need to be further negotiations to decide how much of the UK national debt, pension pot, and other current UK wide funds will be passed over to Scotland.

I think that it would help the debate if we had some idea of what the Scottish share would be before the elections, instead of the UK government refusing to discuss such matters until after the vote has been taken.

Keith
 
KAYCEE said:
Bob,
as far as I can understand, if the vote goes with the "Yes" bods, there will be negotiations with the UK government to give Scotland a share of the existing armed forces. So Scotland might get a couple of frigates and a few fishery protection boats and a squadron of aircraft. There will also need to be further negotiations to decide how much of the UK national debt, pension pot, and other current UK wide funds will be passed over to Scotland.

I think that it would help the debate if we had some idea of what the Scottish share would be before the elections, instead of the UK government refusing to discuss such matters until after the vote has been taken.

Keith
Click to expand...

I think the difficulty with discussing any of these items until after the vote is that it would effectively be a discussion between SNP and a Tory government because they are in power in the UK. The SNP would love to script the referendum as a choice between the UK Tories and independence because the unpopularity of the Tories in Scotland is about the only thing most Scots agree about. It is the only ace the SNP hold and Alex Salmond is desperate to play it. If the UK government was Labour or even Lib Dem I don't think there would be the same urgency on the part of the SNP to discuss these matter before the referendum in case the outcome undermined their case for separation.

The only hope the yes camp have of winning is to turn this into a choice between David Cameron or Alex Salmond. If that was what was being decided even right wing leaning Scots like me would be liable to vote for Eck because the posh boy and his clique are so alien to the natural Scottish psyche. But that is not what we are voting about. David Cameron may be gone after the next election. Independence is for life and if Alex Salmond does a Gordon Brown and demolishes the financial stability of the country in an effort to buy votes after independence we can't vote independence out of office the way we did Broon's government. Vote with your head not with your heart. Remember having financial security may not buy you happiness but at least you can be miserable in comfort.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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