RISE NOW AND BE A NATION AGAIN !

Jobs at Faslane, only 464

Published on Monday, 23 December 2013 10:50
A recent report in the Scotsman reveals that the Ministry of Defence is blocking plans to investigate the possibility of oil and gas extraction off the West coast of Scotland, because this could interfere with the operation of Trident submarines. While many people would be concerned about oil rigs in the Clyde estuary, it should be noted that the Ministry of Defence have also objected to off-shore wind farms in the area, for similar reasons (Herald 6/2/2012).

On 14 October 2009 Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said that there were only 464 civilian jobs at Faslane and Coulport which were directly reliant on Trident. If the money allocated to Trident was spent on anything else, far more jobs would be created. It is a myth to suggest that nuclear weapons provide any benefit to Scotland. Trident is a millstone around the neck of the Scottish economy.
 
Trident is a millstone round the neck of the UK economy. If it was scrapped and the money saved used to reduce taxes you would get no argument from me. That is not what a socialist government would do however. They would invest money saved in public services to be pissed up against the wall by inefficient managers, union dominated workers and politically correct projects. The public services would be no better for the extra money and the country would have increased its reliance on other countries to defend us with no overall benefit for the taxpayers of the nation.
 
Bennysdad said:
You have missed out parts of the logic.

No nukes or any jobs associated with them
No House of Lords or any other second chamber to review and revise legislation.
No illegal wars or any other sort because we will be reliant on NATO (ie the French and the USA) to defend our interests.
No tories or the jobs and revenue created by their companies.
A government voted for by the people so long as it is socialist.

Maybe you will get Johann Lamont for prime minister and the whacking rise in council tax she wants.

Nice to see some real comment from the Yes side however. Congratulations. You can now expect your post to be cut and pasted by Toddy.
Click to expand...

Re Nukes yes jobs will be lost mostly from outside of Scotland , but hopefully jobs will be created with a maritime protection that we do not have at the moment re The aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov that was among vessels that arrived 30 miles off the Moray Firth with only a Coast guard vessel to protect us. Also the removal of nukes 50miles from our largest city.
Reliant on Nato are we not at the moment ? and who apart from our nieghbours would want to invade us ??
No tories that would only be one less and that is all we have in Scotland.
No I never said only a socialist government I said hopefull we would get a real labour party.
I want all parties that fight for the rights and have the interst of the Scottish people rather than Westmister puppets.
Johann Lamont oh dear even I wouldn't wish her on Westminster.

I have yet to hear a positive message from Better together only scare stories.

As for Lord Snooty

Scottish independence is not about one man as your media leads you to believe.
naive or deluded or both maybe but it is something I believe in.
I live in Scotland and I am thankfully not not so naive and deluded to believe most of what is spouted out by a coorupt westminster government :thumby:
 
Yes it will be the land of milk and honey, you will have the most perfect politicians, as you go merrily on your way with Alec in Wonderland.

Did you know that in 2010 election the tories (421,855) were almost as popular as the SNP (491,386) and the Libdems (465,471) throw in another few thousand for UKIP and the gap closes again.

I wish you all the best in the new socialist republic.

I must admit I'd bin Trident and have a couple more hunter killer subs with cruise missiles, and have a few more frigates and type 45 destroyers, and I'd build them down here rather than up there.
 
I was all for the UK sticking together, but part of me now thinks maybe it would be better if Scotland ( and Wales for that matter) went it alone.
It seems there's big support for independence from both so let it be.
Salmond has sadly sewn the seeds of unrest and division which, whatever the outcome a huge split will be his legacy.

Bye Bye Scotland.......
 
Captain Black said:
I was all for the UK sticking together, but part of me now thinks maybe it would be better if Scotland ( and Wales for that matter) went it alone.
It seems there's big support for independence from both so let it be.
Salmond has sadly sewn the seeds of unrest and division which, whatever the outcome a huge split will be his legacy.

Bye Bye Scotland.......
Click to expand...


If you feel like that please read 'Nor Shall My Sword...the reinvention of England' by Simon Heffer.

The book puts forward a fairly reasonable argument for England declaring UDI from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, then after that continues with the case of leaving the EU. It's an interesting book, although written about 15 years ago I think a lot of what he states still holds true.
 
You'll find that Mr Salmond has no personal stake in the Trump golf resort.
Infact Mr Trump isn't a happy chappy as he may well see offshore windfarms from his pitch and put arena :-)
200 jobs not the 6000 Trump had said.
 
Toddy said:
Published on Monday, 23 December 2013 10:50
A recent report in the Scotsman reveals that the Ministry of Defence is blocking plans to investigate the possibility of oil and gas extraction off the West coast of Scotland, because this could interfere with the operation of Trident submarines. While many people would be concerned about oil rigs in the Clyde estuary, it should be noted that the Ministry of Defence have also objected to off-shore wind farms in the area, for similar reasons (Herald 6/2/2012).

On 14 October 2009 Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said that there were only 464 civilian jobs at Faslane and Coulport which were directly reliant on Trident. If the money allocated to Trident was spent on anything else, far more jobs would be created. It is a myth to suggest that nuclear weapons provide any benefit to Scotland. Trident is a millstone around the neck of the Scottish economy.
Click to expand...

You see yet again more lies and misinformation, at the risk of falling into the Toddy trap...
'
More than 6,500 civilians and Service personnel are employed on the site. HMNB Clyde provides a base port to the ships and submarines of the Faslane Flotilla'

These are Royal Navy and MOD employees. That is , if you get your way, they are employees of a foreign country. Why should a foreign country keep any employees there, if the only reason they are there...Trident..is removed. Additionally, eck assures us Scotland would be allowed to join NATO...but hang on...NATO
is a nuclear alliance...DOOOOH!! Whole thing is a pile of inconsistent nonsense.
 
H.R.H. said:
You'll find that Mr Salmond has no personal stake in the Trump golf resort.
Infact Mr Trump isn't a happy chappy as he may well see offshore windfarms from his pitch and put arena :-)
200 jobs not the 6000 Trump had said.
Click to expand...

As the local MSP didn't Salmond ring Scotland’s chief planning officer after the plans for the golf resort were initially rejected in his Aberdeenshire constituency?

Since then Trump has invested little, created few jobs but the rub is he has made over £100M due to increased land values after getting the planning permission

There's going to be a long queue for Scottish inward investment based upon these negotiating skills :augie
 
gerarddwatts said:
You see yet again more lies and misinformation, at the risk of falling into the Toddy trap...
'
More than 6,500 civilians and Service personnel are employed on the site. HMNB Clyde provides a base port to the ships and submarines of the Faslane Flotilla'

These are Royal Navy and MOD employees. That is , if you get your way, they are employees of a foreign country. Why should a foreign country keep any employees there, if the only reason they are there...Trident..is removed. Additionally, eck assures us Scotland would be allowed to join NATO...but hang on...NATO
is a nuclear alliance...DOOOOH!! Whole thing is a pile of inconsistent nonsense.
Click to expand...

Hang on - are you suggesting that an independant Scotland must retain nuclear weapons? Are you suggesting that Scotland could be forced to accept nuclear weapons of another country on its soil?

Yes Nato is a nuclear-equipped alliance - BUT - Not every member has nuclear weapons.

Perhaps you could elaborate, because right now - you ain't making much sense.

Al
 
What will an Independent Scotland mean for Faslane naval base?

On independence, Scotland will inherit the barracks, air bases and naval bases on its territory, including Faslane. These will form the starting point for a new Scottish Defence Force.

How the defence forces of an independent Scotland are set up will be for future elected Scottish Governments to decide, just as the Westminster government is currently responsible for deciding the shape and size of UK defence forces.

The current Scottish Government has set out proposals in its white paper - "Scotland's Future: Your Guide to an Independent Scotland" - for the transition of Faslane from a nuclear submarine base to Scotland's main naval base and joint force headquarters. The transition would take place over the course of a decade. It is the expectation of the Government that that the number of military personnel at Faslane will match the numbers that are there currently, supported by a significant number of cilivilian personnel.

Furthermore, work to reconfigure Faslane as a conventional naval base will involve major construction activity and related jobs in the area. Faslane would also retain capaity for shared arrangements with the rest of the UK and other allies, recognising Faslane's excellent deep water facilities and its geograpgical location.

There is a general consensus in Scotland against the presence of nuclear weapons here because they are immoral, they are incredibly expensive and almost useless in terms of protecting us against the most significant threats to our national security.

Even our share of the annual running costs of the current trident submarines could instead be used to train 3,880 nurses or 4,527 teachers, or to build 13 to 20 primary schools.

Currently only £2 billion of defence spending comes to Scotland – even though £3.3 billion of the UK’s defence budget comes from Scotland’s taxpayers.

By ensuring more of our taxpayers' money is spent in Scotland, there can be a bright future for Faslane as a conventional naval base and joint force headquarters, and for jobs in the surrounding area.
 
Blackal said:
Hang on - are you suggesting that an independant Scotland must retain nuclear weapons? Are you suggesting that Scotland could be forced to accept nuclear weapons of another country on its soil?

Yes Nato is a nuclear-equipped alliance - BUT - Not every member has nuclear weapons.

Perhaps you could elaborate, because right now - you ain't making much sense.

Sorry. Seems clear enough to me. If a French nuclear weapon equipped ship comes looking for a drop of diesel in Loch Ewe Nato refuelling depot are you saying they will be turned away?? Now that'll look good on our application wont it?? Come on now.

And Toddy, yet again you cannot grasp it..the 'only £3bn' currently spent will drop... to... er £0bn..why will the forces of a foreign country spend anything here at all? These are political decisions, and go where the votes are. You can write off Clyde shipbuilding as well.
Click to expand...
 
An enlightening quote " Even our share of the annual running costs of the current trident submarines could instead be used to train 3,880 nurses or 4,527 teachers, or to build 13 to 20 primary schools."

Notice no mention of this saving being used to reduce the taxes of an independent Scotland. The socialist mind just can't cope with the idea of leaving the common people with more of their own money in case they spend it in a capitalist enhancing way. They would prefer if we handed over all of our wages and they would give us back some pocket money so long as we continue to vote the right way.
 
Bennysdad said:
An enlightening quote " Even our share of the annual running costs of the current trident submarines could instead be used to train 3,880 nurses or 4,527 teachers, or to build 13 to 20 primary schools."

Notice no mention of this saving being used to reduce the taxes of an independent Scotland. The socialist mind just can't cope with the idea of leaving the common people with more of their own money in case they spend it in a capitalist enhancing way. They would prefer if we handed over all of our wages and they would give us back some pocket money so long as we continue to vote the right way.
Click to expand...

It puts it into perspective, though - in terms that people can equate to.

Tony Blair always used to justify the need for increased taxes to fund hospitals and schools - while ommitting Trident as a recipient.................

Al
 
I am sure taxpayers could equate to a % drop in the rate of income tax or council tax. Or lets say it could fund a reduction in fuel duty or VAT on fuel bills. The point is the statement is aimed at a target audience and if that audience don't pay tax they can't see anything in it for them. They pick nurses and teachers because we can all see the value they bring to society. It would be more honest however to say this will fund x more administrators or diversity advisors or allow them to knock down the Scottish Parliament building and replace it with one that is not falling apart after just 10 years. After all it only cost 430 million pounds.
 
And of course will have to pay for all the wee things people pretend aren't there but we will need to start as an independent country....Office of Rail Regulator, Network Rail, Maritime and Coastguard Agency, Met Office etc etc etc
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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